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I'd take WW over the WK. DA over Guard as you don't want 10 guys tosurvive in combat. You want them to die so you can shoot thecrap out of what killed them. And save points. Plusrange. Basic msu strategy here.

In my list at 2k I could fit 2x5-6 Spiders AND 6 WW bc of those changes.

GTKA666 wrote:
Maybe GW realised their mistake of the WS and are saying to everyone "NO SERPENT FOR YOU" but that would not fall in thier philosophy of we will take every penny you got. Troubling times are predicted to be ahead.

In reference to spam lists...I REALLY don't like them because to me it shows that the person only knows how to abuse and not how to use their codex. Yet if it was some one like Jy2 was behind the army it wouldn't apply because...its jy2.

Adding a unit of GJB is sacrilege to my footdar. We use the serpent because its a bloody transport and only transports shall be used...unless I add one other tank, but I am still uncertain about whether to take it or not. Maybe I will throw it in just for jy2 on friday

Or perhaps their marketing team sucks and don't know how to forecast properly.

It's cool that you don't like spam lists. Not everyone has to. It's just a matter of personal playstyle. Reece is one who prefers non-spam lists and he has been doing really well with them. So is Janthkin and I am assuming hippesthippo as well. There are advantages and disadvantages to either. I really respect players who try to make do with their units and try to get them to work despite what everyone says.

But with that said, spam-lists are really strong if you know how to use them properly.

GTKA666 wrote:
stock WK?

Yup. I need to be able to deal with AV14 from range. I also like their ability to insta-kill daemon princes from afar. Ground and pound, baby....

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

GTKA666 wrote:
stock WK?

I think thats the best way to take him, especially in a list with so much AI firepower. He has replaced fire prisms in my mech list.

While I look forward to seeing some battle reports from jy2 covering my favorite type of army (mechdar), that list is painfully dull!

I play with more expensive embarked units (dragons and Scythe Guard) and use the serpents to get them to their targets in style. Spam will probably prove more competative though.

I suppose dull is a matter of personal taste. What's more important is if one has fun playing such a build. Though, really, I wouldn't use such a list in casual play, only in tournament play or as practice for a tournament. In casual play, I would go with less spam and more variety.

 Valek wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
This is what I am thinking of running at 2K for eldar. Yes, it's a spam list. That is hard to avoid because most of the units therein are so good in terms of offense, mobility and defense/resiliency as well.

2K Mechdar

Farseer - Jetbike, Mantle of the Laughing God

10x Guardians - Wave Serpent w/TL-Scatter, Holofields
10x Guardians - Wave Serpent w/TL-Scatter, Holofields
10x Guardians - Wave Serpent w/TL-Scatter, Holofields
10x Guardians - Wave Serpent w/TL-Scatter, Holofields
10x Storm Guardians - 2x Fusions, Wave Serpent w/TL-Scatter, Holofields
3x Jetbikes - 1x Shuricannon

7x Warp Spiders
7x Warp Spiders
7x Warp Spiders

Wraith Knight (just because I like the guy )

Ouch yep that is quite brutal, do you really need those 3 jebikes? adding a suncannon and shield to the WK might be worth it.
&&Mental Note&& need more cover ignoring stuff...

I feel that I do.

While wave serpents are fast, you can only move 6" if you want to disembark your guys. That means it'll usually take you at least 2 turns to get to an objective to claim it. Moreover, in order to do so, you will most likely have to move flat-out for 1 turn, thus foregoing your ability to shoot that turn. So you need to take 2 turns to claim an objective and lose some offense while trying to do so.

Another issue is that the serpents cannot contest. Thus, again, you need to disembark to do so and that would take 2 turns in most cases.

Jetbikes let you do both of those in just 1 turn and without sacrificing any firepower.

As for anti-infantry and anti-TEQ, I've got enough volume-of-fire to torrent those units to death, including monstrous creatures. There's a reason why I am taking 50 guardians instead of 25 dire avengers like most people. Bladestorm rocks!

Eh, I like both styles. Lately, I've been spamming more. Depends on the codex, really.

 hippesthippo wrote:
I'd take WW over the WK. DA over Guard as you don't want 10 guys tosurvive in combat. You want them to die so you can shoot thecrap out of what killed them. And save points. Plusrange. Basic msu strategy here.

In my list at 2k I could fit 2x5-6 Spiders AND 6 WW bc of those changes.

I would prefer to keep the WK because I can use him for board control, he is a threat to anything that is not a horde, he is more survivable and a better fire magnet and the model is bad-a$$.

However, WW are good enough that I may consider replacing some warp spiders or even 1 unit of guardians in wave serpent for.

As for DA vs Guardians, I may use a mix of both. Not sure yet. But whereas the DA is basically a throwaway unit, guardians are actually a threat with their shooting, especially if buffed up with Guide/Prescience and Doom by the farseer. I mean, BS4 guardians with rending? What's not to like about them? As for going down quicker, with 5+ saves, they're still going to get swept in combat just as DA will. The only upside to DA is that a unit of 5 is cheaper than a unit of 10 guardians, thus allowing you to spend your points elsewhere in the army for more ranged firepower or elite units (i.e. fire dragons, wraithguards/blades, more spiders and war walkers).

Loved this report! Losing the 3 flyrants in 1 turn was disheartening.. I noticed they were kind of exposed and out in the open.. forgive me as I am new but is that normal? They don't have an invulnerable save that I know of and it would seem they would almost always just get pulverized. Do they have more durability than I am aware?

iNcontroL wrote:
Loved this report! Losing the 3 flyrants in 1 turn was disheartening.. I noticed they were kind of exposed and out in the open.. forgive me as I am new but is that normal? They don't have an invulnerable save that I know of and it would seem they would almost always just get pulverized. Do they have more durability than I am aware?

No, I was just playing very aggressively with them. It wasn't the greatest plan, but with 2 Iron Arms and 2 FNP's, I actually felt I had a good chance to do some damage and then survive the retaliation. I also moved forward so aggressively because next turn, I planned to overshoot his serpents and shoot them in the rear. Then let him deal with probably 2 flyrants (I was expecting to lose at least my non-Iron Armed flyrant) and all my reserves. So I took a gamble but due to some bad dice (failing all 3 grounding tests the first time around), it didn't pay off.

Wow Jy2, you've been playing Monster Bash lists lately. Inspired after watching Pacific Rim perhaps? Excellent job getting a draw despite losing your Flyrants early on. GTKA666 did a good job as well.

Actually, all these games were before I even watched Pacific Rim. I've always been a nidzilla player at heart. This is just going back to my roots. Yeah, Sean put up quite a fight. He almost had me. I was so close to conceding.