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GTKA666 wrote:
o and jim I had the "seer of the shifting vector trait". the DS within 6" of warlord does not scatter.

Oh yeah....that's right....the warp spiders. Thanks.

I'm really looking forward to this.

Battle report updated.

Oh snap. Pop goes the Flyrant.

And they had such high toughness to.

Eldar are more broken than coffee mugs at a preschool.

lol this battle will surprise most people and will put Eldar in a different light.

DarthDiggler wrote:
Oh snap. Pop goes the Flyrant.

And they had such high toughness to.

Eldar are more broken than coffee mugs at a preschool.

That's too bad....because you need lots of coffee to stay awake in preschool.

GTKA666 wrote:
lol this battle will surprise most people and will put Eldar in a different light.

BTW, one of reasons why I think 10 naked guardians without any heavy weapon platforms is ok is this.

With a heavy weapon, you are encouraged to stay away to just fire it. That means may just 1 bright lance shot or up to 4 S6 shots.

Guardians are much more deadly when they're close up firing 20 rending shots while supported by Guide/Prescience and Doom.

Stay back and your chances of grounding MC's is much, much lower as you are less likely to hit. Up close, you have a much better chance to ground them because there are more units to shoot with higher chances to hit.

BTW, you played T2 brilliantly with all your units working together in unison in order to take out my flyrants.

Ouch! I really wasn't expecting that... Bad dice happen sadly, but that still puts some proper fear of the Eldar into my heart... I'll consider this a warning! I'm doubting that the Trygons will be able to make enough of a difference now.

GTKA666 wrote:
lol this battle will surprise most people and will put Eldar in a different light.

Nope. Games over. I mean dice are dice and the Doom can come down and wreck your whole Army, but that doesn't mean much. At this point the Eldar win 4/5 games and that's pretty good for a dice game. You can roll some dice, shoot a Trygon with 80 rending shots and miss with everything to lose the game. Still doesn't mean Eldar don't win this matchup 4/5 times from this point forward.

 jy2 wrote:

GTKA666 wrote:
lol this battle will surprise most people and will put Eldar in a different light.

BTW, one of reasons why I think 10 naked guardians without any heavy weapon platforms is ok is this.

With a heavy weapon, you are encouraged to stay away to just fire it. That means may just 1 bright lance shot or up to 4 S6 shots.

Guardians are much more deadly when they're close up firing 20 rending shots while supported by Guide/Prescience and Doom.

Stay back and your chances of grounding MC's is much, much lower as you are less likely to hit. Up close, you have a much better chance to ground them because there are more units to shoot with higher chances to hit.

BTW, you played T2 brilliantly with all your units working together in unison in order to take out my flyrants.

if its one thing I know how to do it is to bring down a flyer, no matter if it has toughness or AV. I was planning on sending the Spiders towards the bottom gaunts to harass the tervigon down south, but something in me said "don't be an idiont and focus those flyrants! Ty for the compliment as well!

 jy2 wrote:

BTW, one of reasons why I think 10 naked guardians without any heavy weapon platforms is ok is this.

With a heavy weapon, you are encouraged to stay away to just fire it. That means may just 1 bright lance shot or up to 4 S6 shots.

Guardians are much more deadly when they're close up firing 20 rending shots while supported by Guide/Prescience and Doom.

Stay back and your chances of grounding MC's is much, much lower as you are less likely to hit. Up close, you have a much better chance to ground them because there are more units to shoot with higher chances to hit.

Aren't Grav Platforms relentless? Unless the issue is being afraid to commit a more expensive unit (I don't know what the platforms cost) it seems like adding at least a Shuriken Cannon would a be a no-brainer. Play just as aggressively with your Guardians, but now if you put them up against a high-toughness target you've got more than just the hope for a few 6s in your arsenal.

Amerikon wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

BTW, one of reasons why I think 10 naked guardians without any heavy weapon platforms is ok is this.

With a heavy weapon, you are encouraged to stay away to just fire it. That means may just 1 bright lance shot or up to 4 S6 shots.

Guardians are much more deadly when they're close up firing 20 rending shots while supported by Guide/Prescience and Doom.

Stay back and your chances of grounding MC's is much, much lower as you are less likely to hit. Up close, you have a much better chance to ground them because there are more units to shoot with higher chances to hit.

Aren't Grav Platforms relentless? Unless the issue is being afraid to commit a more expensive unit (I don't know what the platforms cost) it seems like adding at least a Shuriken Cannon would a be a no-brainer. Play just as aggressively with your Guardians, but now if you put them up against a high-toughness target you've got more than just the hope for a few 6s in your arsenal.

All I am saying is that not having a weapons platform in a unit of guardians is ok. But that doesn't mean it is better than a unit with a gun platform. Now it is ok if you play your guardian squad up close with the rest of the army but the problem I am seeing is that many players who run the gun platforms tend to deploy them slightly further away from the rest of the more mobile army and just sit there and shoot. Honestly, that is a waste of all the bladestorming shots there as the unit can easily be avoided should the opponent choose to. So basically, each turn you are just firing 1 brightlance shot (or whatever). But deploy them with the rest of the force and now you can fire both your weapons platform as well as shurikens when the enemy gets close.

Naked guardians tend to be be 1) in wave serpents or 2) close to the main army to help support it. That is just how a lot of players play. You can also reserve them, but guardian jetbikes would do that better.

Ouch, game over then by turn 2? It'll be interesting to see if you can salvage anything from this, jy2.

The flyrants were exposed to a hell of a lot of firepower including the flyer and quad which are pretty much guaranteed to ground two tyrants. However with those iron arms rolls plus FNP I wouldn't have thought on average he had enough shots to take that 12 wounds off.

I notice there doesn't seem to be any Los blocking for the flyrants, I'd have preferred waiting till turn 2 reserves were in the Eldar deployment zone before exposing the flyrants but I guess that wasn't possible. All with the benefit of hindsight and armchair generalship of course.

DarthDiggler wrote:

GTKA666 wrote:
lol this battle will surprise most people and will put Eldar in a different light.

Nope. Games over. I mean dice are dice and the Doom can come down and wreck your whole Army, but that doesn't mean much. At this point the Eldar win 4/5 games and that's pretty good for a dice game. You can roll some dice, shoot a Trygon with 80 rending shots and miss with everything to lose the game. Still doesn't mean Eldar don't win this matchup 4/5 times from this point forward.

I think you are being kind. Losing 800-pts of your best units who also happen to be your best shooters, only means of anti-flyer and most mobile units while only being able to take out 70-pts of the opponent's offense....in most cases, your chances of a victory is 1 in 10.

Wow. Poor ol' Flyrants, thats almost half the points of this army out the window. It will be interesting to see the recovery.

djn wrote:
Ouch, game over then by turn 2? It'll be interesting to see if you can salvage anything from this, jy2.

The flyrants were exposed to a hell of a lot of firepower including the flyer and quad which are pretty much guaranteed to ground two tyrants. However with those iron arms rolls plus FNP I wouldn't have thought on average he had enough shots to take that 12 wounds off.

I notice there doesn't seem to be any Los blocking for the flyrants, I'd have preferred waiting till turn 2 reserves were in the Eldar deployment zone before exposing the flyrants but I guess that wasn't possible. All with the benefit of hindsight and armchair generalship of course.

It's not over yet. Like I said, this was a very good game.

My rolling was pretty bad on Turn 2. I would fail all my Grounding tests (where is Fateweaver when you need him!?!) and I don't think I passed a single FNP save. Moreover, I had no cover against the majority of his rending shooting as well as the Wraithknights and crimson hunter's AP2 shots. His list actually has quite a lot of short-to-mid-range firepower and T8/9 means nothing to rending shuriken weaponry.

There was a LOS-blocking terrain. I just chose not to use it, opting for an aggressive alpha-strike instead and thinking that I should be able to survive his shooting with maybe just 1 or at most 2 dead flyrants. If I had made even 1 grounding test, I probably would have had at least 1 flyrant survive.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
Wow. Poor ol' Flyrants, thats almost half the points of this army out the window. It will be interesting to see the recovery.

As long as the Doom is able to draw a lot of firepower from his army, thus giving my Heavies some breathing room, I think I still have a slim chance.

Final prediction is a narrow Eldar victory. Mawloc, Tyrgons and DOOM all do enough damage to hold back Eldar, but Tervigons and other elements can't make it far up enough to contest/claim the Eldars superior objectives.

The Eldar list ends up being more formidable than it looked, in line with most of the lists used by Reecius. Eldar is a very tricky, synergistic army to be sure! There still isn't an emerging single "meta build" better than any other.

 jifel wrote:
Final prediction is a narrow Eldar victory. Mawloc, Tyrgons and DOOM all do enough damage to hold back Eldar, but Tervigons and other elements can't make it far up enough to contest/claim the Eldars superior objectives.

The Eldar list ends up being more formidable than it looked, in line with most of the lists used by Reecius. Eldar is a very tricky, synergistic army to be sure! There still isn't an emerging single "meta build" better than any other.

Wait til Wave Serpent-spam comes out. I guarantee you that is a top-tier tournament-winning eldar army build.

The question is, how will it look like? I don't believe it is a 9-AV12 build like pure CronAir. Rather, think of it more like my wraithwing crons - a hybrid build with 4-5 wave serpents and some other good units.

I will probably test such a build with SabrX's mechdar when he returns to gaming.

Serpent spam is the obvious choice, for good reason, but I've seen some mean lists with only one or two. Then again, those were technically DEldar, so less Eldar involved.

Both of these lists look great on the battlefield, the Eldar list is diverse and really fills the board with units/threats. Great game so far! 40k at 2K+ is really a different game and loads of fun.

Turn 2 completed.


Turn 3 coming a little later tonight.

 BladeWalker wrote:
Both of these lists look great on the battlefield, the Eldar list is diverse and really fills the board with units/threats. Great game so far! 40k at 2K+ is really a different game and loads of fun.

Thanks. Yeah, there definitely is a lot more toys you can play around with at 2K. Personally, 2K is my favorite points level to play at, though it does take around 3+ hours of casual play.

And the Mawloc proves it worth. I'm happy someone has shown this to the Internet as it is a unit I have always stood by. But I tend to run my list as triple maw locks, 2 x 7 ymgarls, doom in a pod. Then 2 x tervis, with the needed gants. And a flyrant.

Excellent showing by the Mawloc! I'm currently bouncing back between him + gants and a third Flyrant for 2250... its very tricky! I'm very glad that I opened up that thread on the Mawloc, I'm seeing real utility in this guy!

Quick question, did you DS that Trygon there to block his Serpents "path of escape" before the Mawloc came in? If so, that is just pure evil!

Well, the mawloc sure paid for himself.

Eldercaveman wrote:
And the Mawloc proves it worth. I'm happy someone has shown this to the Internet as it is a unit I have always stood by. But I tend to run my list as triple maw locks, 2 x 7 ymgarls, doom in a pod. Then 2 x tervis, with the needed gants. And a flyrant.

I think when playing againt "maw-gins" (i.e. mawloc virgins - people who have never gone up againt a mawloc before), you can pull off such shenanigans. But rarely will you be able to pull off the same maneuver against the same opponent again. They'll usually learn the 2nd time, especially after losing a 400-pt unit just like that.

 jifel wrote:
Excellent showing by the Mawloc! I'm currently bouncing back between him + gants and a third Flyrant for 2250... its very tricky! I'm very glad that I opened up that thread on the Mawloc, I'm seeing real utility in this guy!

Quick question, did you DS that Trygon there to block his Serpents "path of escape" before the Mawloc came in? If so, that is just pure evil!

Yes, I did. In order for the mawloc "trick" to work, you need to block off all exits. That was exactly what I tried to do. Almost gave him an "out" with the spore pod scattering. Fortunately, I was able to disembark the Doom and still be able to block an "exit".

In addition, the trygon was in range to shoot at the war walkers. He just made his cover saves/invulns.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
Well, the mawloc sure paid for himself.

Yeah, he can do that to an unsuspecting opponent....even after I told my opponent about the "trick" before we even started playing.

I've seen the same mawloc trick done in 5th but using lictors or Ygnarls to pin gun line units in their corner before popping up. Also glad to see you burrowed turn 1 like any smart player though you may want to add that to your turn one so others know the same trick. Never reserve the mawloc. If he lives the mawloc will be crucial by the end of this game due to burrowing and hit and run, he is a great end game contester.

Don't sell that trick short btw, with three flying MC's, a spod/doom and two trygons you have great odds at trapping even hardened players. As I've said I've seen it done even to suspecting players using lictors though I'll agree it is hit or miss but when it goes off, like in this game, it is awesome.

Looking at the eldar list again I think he would benefit more with a Bastion. It's cheaper, gives his quad gun better visibility, protects a unit inside while adding heavy bolter support and on top of all that allows his WW to battle focus behind it each turn so he can use his seers powers elsewhere.

Funny game so far, a lot of unlikely things have happened which I find make the most fun game.

 jy2 wrote:

Amerikon wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

BTW, one of reasons why I think 10 naked guardians without any heavy weapon platforms is ok is this.

With a heavy weapon, you are encouraged to stay away to just fire it. That means may just 1 bright lance shot or up to 4 S6 shots.

Guardians are much more deadly when they're close up firing 20 rending shots while supported by Guide/Prescience and Doom.

Stay back and your chances of grounding MC's is much, much lower as you are less likely to hit. Up close, you have a much better chance to ground them because there are more units to shoot with higher chances to hit.

Aren't Grav Platforms relentless? Unless the issue is being afraid to commit a more expensive unit (I don't know what the platforms cost) it seems like adding at least a Shuriken Cannon would a be a no-brainer. Play just as aggressively with your Guardians, but now if you put them up against a high-toughness target you've got more than just the hope for a few 6s in your arsenal.

The problem I am seeing is that many players who run the gun platforms tend to deploy them slightly further away from the rest of the more mobile army and just sit there and shoot. Honestly, that is a waste of all the bladestorming shots there as the unit can easily be avoided should the opponent choose to. So basically, each turn you are just firing 1 brightlance shot (or whatever). But deploy them with the rest of the force and now you can fire both your weapons platform as well as shurikens when the enemy gets close.

I agree, but I see this as less of an argument for naked guardians and more a call for people to wake up and stop letting the grav platform tail wag the dog.

Well when the mawlock came in (for some reason it didn't occur to me that I had trapped my WS. Thats what I get for saying "ah that will never happen.") and he put the pie plate down he had this grin on his face and when he said "I put it here. Now your Serpent is destroyed." I literally tried to find every nook and cranny to try and save the damn thing....whats worse is that I was thinking of disembarking the unit out of the WS in case the flyrants had lived though the onslaught...O' how deep that wound cut. Mark my words though....this will not happen to me again!

I think T2 is the turn of proving a units' worth. Not to mention the turn that I am still kicking myself for XD.

As for the Bastion....I don't own one . I also use the Quad for the scare factor and less for actual fire power, well with the crack shot gone and whatnot. This game of course would have been perfect for it though.

GTKA666 wrote:
Well when the mawlock came in and he put the pie plate down he had this grin on his face and when he said "I put it here. Now your Serpent is destroyed." I literally tried to find every nook and cranny to try and save the damn thing....whats worse is that I was thinking of disembarking the unit out of the WS in case the flyrants had lived though the onslaught...O' how deep that wound cut. Mark my words though....this will not happen to me again!

I think T2 is the turn of proving a units' worth. Not to mention the turn that I am still kicking myself for XD.

And so the Mawloc has done its job. The thing I have found with Nids, is more than any other army half the battle is won off the table. You need to be able to control the psychological warfare going on. And now any time you come up against a Mawloc, you will have this in your mind, and your opponent will already be controlling what you do, just by showing you a list.

The hive mind is watching.....

Lol now when I see a Mawlock I won't have my guardians push up so far and have the DA's jump out instead! SImple fix to this "psychological warfare". If anything my guardians will be playing the trick of "O' they won't do anything" and how wrong my opponent will be

Will it be enough is the question?

At this point, if rolls go the same I say no.