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Definitely not what I expected.

The basic unit (Skinks) in Fantasy has this profile:

WS: 2 -> basic human level, low.
BS: 3 -> average. Trained human.
S: 3 -> average. Healhy human.
T: 2 -> low. They are weak. They are the size of a gretchin.
W: 1 -> standard.
I: 4 -> quite fast
A: 1 -> standard.
Ld: 6 -> low. They need support (or leaders) to work properly.

They are cheap, small, weak. Think of the Eldar Guardians, the human Conscript, the tyranid gaunt, the ork gretchin/boy. It is the basic model. Harassing unit, explorers, you throw these guys to the enemy to gain time or use them to capture strategic points.

You are making the basic unit of the species an elite unit. 12 pts is dangerously close to Marine territory. This is an entire species when even the weakest is nearly as powerful as a Space Marine. It is not cool.

Of course, it would depend on how close you want to stay to the Lizardmen. I would keep Nazak Hunters as Troops and move Korak Warriors to Elite.

About Echo Grenades: I don´t see any problem regarding losing overwatch. In most situations, overwatch is situational. In those that it actually matters (Tau, a unit that specializes in overwatching) provides a tactical problem. I would even be ok with an updated version: a skink like unit (cheap, fast, die quickly) with Echo Grenades that take out overwatch and take down the initiative and/or other attributes to 1. Thus you would get a unit that specializes in throwing grenades during the Shooting Phase, providing support for more powerful, assault oriented units.

About the army-wide rule. That´s complicated. Let me read the Lizardmen Armybook in search of inspiration. It has been a while... I do not even remember where I have the Armybook.

The water-thing is OK as you got it the first time. Situational, fluffy, it is fine. Keep it that way. Do not make it powerful or people will refuse to play you with that kind of terrain. You need another rule to really make a difference, but I suggest this rule to be something completely different.

Looking at the rules, i dont think rivers and lakes and such confer cover saves... I may have missed something though

true they could be spammed... i will change it to 1 per 5 men like the koraks.

i like the huntsman idea, i think that would work.

1 per five is worse since a 20 model squad gets 4 unless you mean you can only have 2 after you have 10 models that is better.

You may be right, I have always seen it and always played that lakes and rivers gave a 6+ cover, I skimmed through the rule book and could not confirm it, if that's the case then just confer a 5+ cover like you said.

Hi again.

In Warhammer Fantasy, the Lizardmen (7th edition) are defined by three army-wide rules:
1: Cold Blooded: for all Ld tests, you roll 3 dices and use the lowest two scores.
2: Aquatic: they treat marshes, rivers, lakes or any other such water features as open terrain. And they gain soft cover on them
3: Jungle Poisons: all shooting attacks have the poison rule.

But to get 4 special weapons you need 20 models, which will have significantly worse once they start moving.

 da001 wrote:
Hi again.

In Warhammer Fantasy, the Lizardmen (7th edition) are defined by three army-wide rules:
1: Cold Blooded: for all Ld tests, you roll 3 dices and use the lowest two scores.
2: Aquatic: they treat marshes, rivers, lakes or any other such water features as open terrain. And they gain soft cover on them
3: Jungle Poisons: all shooting attacks have the poison rule.

I think he should use the first two, the second one in 40k translation is "does not become slowed by"this type of terrain, and soft cover would turn into stealth I suppose but let's make it shrouded for +2 to a cover save.

Also 20 models with your 4 special weapon guys in the back will work a lot better then you think, I just don't agree that a hunter unit would utilize that many special weapons, that's why they are "special"because its usually a rare or very skillful weapon to use/maintain.

I dunno its up to you but I don't think it fits, if you really want try to make it 3 total but you need 6 models for 1st one 12 models for the second and 18 models for the third.

I could do 1 for every 6, tbh i doubt many people would use them. The nazak hunters become significantly worse on the move and both special weapons need to get close to the enemy.

I dont think the cold blooded rule is needed. I dont need to make this army EXACTLY like lizardmen and as creatures that often turn mercenary, i dont want them to be too stoic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im not particularly bothered about staying close to the Lizardmen theme. i envision this army as a more brutish type of lizardman, and the nazak hunters are only really like skinks in that theyre hunters and are smaller than korak hunters

It's up to you, I like the direction you are headed.

As do I. You are creating something new.

However I think you should change the name of the thread, it is misleading. These are no longer "Lizardmen in space". Give this new faction a new name.

Unfortunately the thread isnt mine, i cant change it

2 days xP If everyone has stopped I won't bother changing the title :3

Well it's not that we stopped, I for one was waiting for you to respond and change the title lol

Start a new Thread Hive Fleet Fab.

That was around 3 pages just complaining about the random gun range..

And you can update new units in the first post that way.


-Dert

Everything is already on this page anyway, I'll change the title to 'Varks; a New 40k Army Idea'

Well the generic HQ I have is the Kuvuk chieftain:

WS: 4
BS: 4
S: 5
T: 5
W: 3
I: 4
A: 3
Ld: 10
Sv: 4+

Unit type: infantry

Wargear: Impact armour, close combat weapon, spine pistol.

Special rules: amphibian, independent character.

One Kuvuk chieftain may be upgraded to a grand elder for 25 points if so he gains +1 WS, BS and the stubborn special rule.

Thoughts?

That's really cool actually, he doesn't get an invulnerable, or a feel no pain, or eternal warrior? I love everything else its just without one of those abilities he can die easily.

Also I know at T5 he won't get instant death muched but still better then nothing else.

That is a Necron Overlord stat line with higher initiative and lower armour so not really anymore vulnerable to dying.

You are missing the Baseline Points.

I noticed every unit has a different [Race] [Class]

So is this meant to be a group of different Lizard species or one Lizard specimen?
Just a crazy thought, maybe give the larger lizard species an additional Bite attack at Ini 1


-Dert

Hi I've seen people arguing in here for quite a long time now.
Yes, your troops are fine stat-line and rule-wise, but the AP is a bit OP.
You should make a new page, and put your units in the first post. I'm interested in this thread
And one question: Is there a "Conscript"-like unit in your are my ? You know, low BS, WS, Ld and Sv and average S and T ?

The base points cost would be 70 points

This would just be a slightly larger korak warrior, like what a captain is to a space marine.

The AP isnt so powerful as people think. Necron immortals have weapons with AP4 and a higher strength than my troops at less points, but they arent particularly spammed or considered OP.

there is no conscript, i wanted them to be a pretty elite army

a possible 48'' str 5ap 3 weapon!! Even though its heavy still op make it 3d6+6 range if you want to keep the random range and make the weapon assault 1

Sigh... right, the final profile for the gun is

Range: 24" strength: 5 AP: 3 heavy 3

That is now changed. For definite

 hive fleet fabulous wrote:
Sigh... right, the final profile for the gun is

Range: 24" strength: 5 AP: 3 heavy 3

That is now changed. For definite

You need to take constructive criticism, make it raid fire at most, its just too many shots for the basic gun in your army.

Its fine as i see it. Necron destroyers have the same gun with 1 less shot, but higher BS and preferred enemy, and so will deal more damage at range, for 20 points less.

destroyers are easier to take out and they have a str5 ap 3 assault2 24'' range gauss cannon with PE anyway they are not a troops choice,

An assault 2 weapon at BS4 with PE is better than a heavy 3 wepon at BS3. and my unit isnt a troops choice either.

actually with only 1 less toughness, one more leadership and the ability to get back up on a 5+ theyre about as tough.

thought they where troops? ok well the maybe keep them the same