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Only 2 less hits sounds powerful, but only 4 hits from a 145pt platform, sounds weak.

A 33% reduction in firepower for a save that is 33% better than now sounds a bit more fair.

Its a nerf to the serpent, but not enough of one. Provided the current rumors are accurate (I hope).

The rest of Mechdar is certainly taking a swift kick from this, but unless the Serpent gets an actual nerf, the other Eldar skimmers won't be taken that much.

(Oh, if a Serpent flat outs into your deployment zone top of turn 1, anything but a pure gun line should have no trouble hitting rear armor, melee or ranged. And on rear armor, the Serpent is just an AV10 with no shield.)

I really hope Falcons don't become less viable...

We're going to see other vehicle wargear get taken more.

My thought is that Eldar will either take both Holo and Ghost walk, or neither.

I actually really like what I've heard.

Bharring wrote:
Only 2 less hits sounds powerful, but only 4 hits from a 145pt platform, sounds weak.

This is why my Tyranid Monster Mash has never been that afraid of Eldar. Not enough firepower to chew through 60+ gants and 5+ MCs.


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Bharring wrote:
My thought is that Eldar will either take both Holo and Ghost walk, or neither.

I actually really like what I've heard.

Same here.

I am also looking into Vectored engines with the more conservative playstyle these rules would bring.

I for one am happy about the jink nerf:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/595300.page

 Sir Arun wrote:
I for one am happy about the jink nerf:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/595300.page

Did you just?

Funny thing I've just noticed.

The most undercosted skimmer around, the necron annibarge? just got BETTER if both this and the "snaps at -1" are true.

Greats.
(it will be 32/36 on average under new snaps with the TL tesla cannon thing...so he gives no feths on jinxing every damn turn as it only hits 36/36 when NOT snapping, so really the loss of aim is negligible-while the cover save improves.)

 Sir Arun wrote:
I for one am happy about the jink nerf:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/595300.page

I really think you should start a blog if you're going to be making a thread for every big thought that creeps into your head.

Damn!!! I was just going to go laugh on the other thread about considering a Piranha a transport!!!

Necrons are going to be in good shape.

N Scythes and A Barges only go down from 6 to 5 hits per shot with TL Tesla to gain a 4+ jink. The gain and loss are both marginal for the A barge, but the gain is huge for a N scythe for a very marginal loss.

The jink is still 6+ when hit by ignore cover.

Tau MP can not explode a scythe. A Barges can't be penned by S7 as long as QS is up and running.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Necrons are going to be in good shape.

N Scythes and A Barges only go down from 6 to 5 hits per shot with TL Tesla to gain a 4+ jink. The gain and loss are both marginal for the A barge, but the gain is huge for a N scythe for a very marginal loss.

The jink is still 6+ when hit by ignore cover.

Tau MP can not explode a scythe. A Barges can't be penned by S7 as long as QS is up and running.

This is actually good news for Necrons.

Scythes, Annihilation Barges, and Wraiths (consolidating after cc?) got a boost.

Still don't know where the "ignore cover is only -2" is coming from, and I REALLY hope that's total nonsense left over from back half a year ago when all sort of random stuff came up.

If ignore cover does not ignore cover, WHAT will be the counter to the 2+ cover? you got AP to beat armor, but cover will be undefeatable?

Maybe simply templates will have -2 cover rather then natural "no cover", but things that are MEANT to ignore cover? not seeing it.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Still don't know where the "ignore cover is only -2" is coming from, and I REALLY hope that's total nonsense left over from back half a year ago when all sort of random stuff came up.

If ignore cover does not ignore cover, WHAT will be the counter to the 2+ cover? you got AP to beat armor, but cover will be undefeatable?

Maybe simply templates will have -2 cover rather then natural "no cover", but things that are MEANT to ignore cover? not seeing it.

I hope not.... on the ignoring cover being a -2 to cover, that would mean that the boost we got to markerlights removing all cover with 2 hits rather than -1 cover per markerlight became a nerf and not a boost....

Well... I guess I'll be taking flicker fields on everything now.

It'll be interesting to see if Skilled Rider lets you shoot normally. Buffs Dark Angels, nerfs White Scars. Which is alright, because right now Ravenwing cost more and get less out of the deal, over all. No Gravguns, No T-Fires to add in, more expensive...

Get Scout baseline, but Khan gives that to the WS for cheaper than Sammael. Then you can add in Chapter Master smash face for the lulz.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
Necrons are going to be in good shape.

N Scythes and A Barges only go down from 6 to 5 hits per shot with TL Tesla to gain a 4+ jink. The gain and loss are both marginal for the A barge, but the gain is huge for a N scythe for a very marginal loss.

The jink is still 6+ when hit by ignore cover.

Tau MP can not explode a scythe. A Barges can't be penned by S7 as long as QS is up and running.

This is actually good news for Necrons.

Scythes, Annihilation Barges, and Wraiths (consolidating after cc?) got a boost.

Ghost Arks got a big boost. Overall increase in vehicle resiliency (7 needed to explode) and a 3++ flat out. You're not shooting with it anyway.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
Necrons are going to be in good shape.

N Scythes and A Barges only go down from 6 to 5 hits per shot with TL Tesla to gain a 4+ jink. The gain and loss are both marginal for the A barge, but the gain is huge for a N scythe for a very marginal loss.

The jink is still 6+ when hit by ignore cover.

Tau MP can not explode a scythe. A Barges can't be penned by S7 as long as QS is up and running.

This is actually good news for Necrons.

Scythes, Annihilation Barges, and Wraiths (consolidating after cc?) got a boost.

Ghost Arks got a big boost. Overall increase in vehicle resiliency (7 needed to explode) and a 3++ flat out. You're not shooting with it anyway.

Necrons can ally with necrons so you can now stick a combo of 3 and 2 lords/overlords inside for majority t5 on the 5 warriors. It's a scoring royal court deathstar with 5 ablative t5 warrior wounds. That's a nasty unit to stick in an open topped transport with av13 and a 3+ jink.



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Ow crap lords in warriors makes them troops. They can go 2nd, die, pop back up with el, and non troops can't contest an objective after he makes an el roll.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Still don't know where the "ignore cover is only -2" is coming from, and I REALLY hope that's total nonsense left over from back half a year ago when all sort of random stuff came up.

If ignore cover does not ignore cover, WHAT will be the counter to the 2+ cover? you got AP to beat armor, but cover will be undefeatable?

Maybe simply templates will have -2 cover rather then natural "no cover", but things that are MEANT to ignore cover? not seeing it.

I could see it splitting down the line.

Ignores Cover, like from my Markerlight rule or a unit being aided by a buffmander, are -2 cover save rather than straight up no cover since they are more likely to just have better aim than anything else to explain where the hell its coming from.

Blasts/Templates, on the other hand, will straight up ignore cover if they have the rule to do it to begin with (i.e. most barrage weapons, all flamers, etc) or are given the rule from a psyker, an IC attachment, or in my case markerlights (so my riptides/ionheads can still full fledge ignore cover, rest will be -2 cover).

That makes a bit of sense, to me anyway. Flamers were originally made to flush out bunkers...technically anything short of power armor shouldnt give an armor save let alone cover. Blast markers work along the lines of THEY BLEW YOUR COVER UP lol.

However i doubt the -2 cover rumor is a thing, modifiers to any save died eons ago and now its you get it or you dont. Since jinking is more about evasive maneuvers rather than hiding behind something, that might be where the -2 cover save rumor is popping from since it could be a jink-specific thing only.

Hiding in a fox hole or trench works real well when being shelled (blasts) but doesn't work against flame throwers. That's one of the few realistic rules the game has.

Yes and no.

Harder to hit because the only way to hurt you is to land in the trench, but even if it was a ways away from you but still got into the trench the shockwave from the blast usually hits you anyway.

Also, artillery will obliterate "ruins" if it doesnt somehow find a crack to fly through.

Actually, the way trenches are built nowdays, if a rocket does not land directly on your curve, you will hardly feel a thing, no heat, no shrapnel, no shockwave.

Thats what i meant, my mind is a bit loopy from the flu so i probably couldnt say it right, as the multiple edits on such a tiny post indicate.

But, if that rocket does land in the trench its going to be one bad bad day for you even if it wasnt near you because the trench "funnels" the shockwave. Hard bends in the trench reduces it dramatically though, so thats another factor.

Of course if the shell bursts directly above the trench and sprays shrapnel downwards, you are also in trouble.


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Just had a thought. Has anything said that Jink saves still require movement? This could mean that Skimmers and Bikes can finally Jink against that alpha strike before they have a movement phase.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Thats what i meant, my mind is a bit loopy from the flu so i probably couldnt say it right, as the multiple edits on such a tiny post indicate.

But, if that rocket does land in the trench its going to be one bad bad day for you even if it wasnt near you because the trench "funnels" the shockwave. Hard bends in the trench reduces it dramatically though, so thats another factor.

Shockwaves are by far the least of your worries with 99% of explosive munitions and soft tissue (that's you) is rather good at absorbing them anyway (so long as you're not right besides them when they go off at least). If someone drops a multi-ton bomb in your trench you'd be screwed, but that kind of goes without saying...

Having munitions go off just past the curve from you protects you from shrapnel, which is what's actually supposed to kill you.


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 BoomWolf wrote:
Well, you can over-equip anything, preds are no different.

And preds are a rather poor unit to begin with, and with tau having the alternate army build (gunline) being widely considered one of the most annoying out there, do we REALLY profit form the alternative getting nerfed into the same grey unintresting values competetors have?

Our tanks used to be cool and intresting. costed an arm and a leg, but were COOL.
After the jinks change? I'd probably settle for bare bones hammers, if any. there is just no reason to invest in it any more as it does nothing impressive-its no longer good at actually tanking shots, and the mandatory Dpod went into doing practically nothing of value.

Hammerheads have a f**k off long range. Want to enjoy both good cover and full BS? Park them in/behind cover and fire gleefully from half a board away or more.

Want to get a better vantage point? Used to be a boring no-brainer, now you actually need to coordinate your forces a bit to pull it off by either interposing units to give it cover or markerlighting its intended target to offset the snapfire BS penalty (at which point you have a 3+ cover save and regular shooting for the price of two markerlight counters).

Tau are the LAST codex that should be bothered by the new Jinx mechanic...

Actually the sad part for me is that I will be unable to drive them up for ramming and tank shocking any more, staying behind in cover is boring.

As for the rest of your rant, markers aren't free, and using blockers will be silly as the tanks used to be my blockers.

Sure, tau can manage just fine, by keeping to the boring old gunline works. The jinx change, if real, only hurts tau who wants to play active and aggressive-yakonw, FUN


(and last to complain is necrons, they don't care to snap shoot anyway so it's pure buff for them.)

 BoomWolf wrote:
Actually the sad part for me is that I will be unable to drive them up for ramming and tank shocking any more, staying behind in cover is boring.

As for the rest of your rant, markers aren't free, and using blockers will be silly as the tanks used to be my blockers.

Sure, tau can manage just fine, by keeping to the boring old gunline works. The jinx change, if real, only hurts tau who wants to play active and aggressive-yakonw, FUN

When was the last time you tank shocked anyone that didn't literally walk up to your tanks in your own deployment zone?

Also, moving from cover to cover is a thing.

 BoomWolf wrote:
(and last to complain is necrons, they don't care to snap shoot anyway so it's pure buff for them.)

Really? Tell that to my Ghost Ark that's now even easier to blow up unless it sacrifices its firepower (which can be rather substantial with a blob of warriors and a cryptek or two or a royal court inside).

 Galorian wrote:


Really? Tell that to my Ghost Ark that's now even easier to blow up unless it sacrifices its firepower (which can be rather substantial with a blob of warriors and a cryptek or two or a royal court inside).

Uhm, if you hae to decide between a 3++ and firing 5 bolters, it really isn't a tough choice to make. I greatly appreciate it now getting a 3++ for free.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

But, if that rocket does land in the trench its going to be one bad bad day for you even if it wasnt near you because the trench "funnels" the shockwave. Hard bends in the trench reduces it dramatically though, so thats another factor.

Blast weapons dont kill people with shockwaves, they do so with shrapnel. For maximum damage the explosives usually detonate 5-20ft above the ground. Being in a whole in the ground dramatically reduces your chances of getting hit by shrapnel.

 Galorian wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Actually the sad part for me is that I will be unable to drive them up for ramming and tank shocking any more, staying behind in cover is boring.

As for the rest of your rant, markers aren't free, and using blockers will be silly as the tanks used to be my blockers.

Sure, tau can manage just fine, by keeping to the boring old gunline works. The jinx change, if real, only hurts tau who wants to play active and aggressive-yakonw, FUN

When was the last time you tank shocked anyone that didn't literally walk up to your tanks in your own deployment zone?

Also, moving from cover to cover is a thing.

When the enemy wasn't a LD 10 necron, that's when. its wasted effort on you.
And your troops are never on the fething ground either! I can't tank shock a freaking night scythe! METAL BAWKSES! DA KOWARDZ! THE FEWLZ!!

 Galorian wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
(and last to complain is necrons, they don't care to snap shoot anyway so it's pure buff for them.)

Really? Tell that to my Ghost Ark that's now even easier to blow up unless it sacrifices its firepower (which can be rather substantial with a blob of warriors and a cryptek or two or a royal court inside).

Just further proving my point that the cool stuff are the ones taking the hit, while the annoying stuff only gets better x_x (annibarge=annoying and undercosted as hell, ghost ark? its fair, and promotes agressive plays.)

Wait, is this really a Tau player claiming Necrons to be overpowered?

Like, come on man. Really.