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2014/08/26 02:22:17
Subject: 1850 Sky Fleet Pandora at the BAO GT 2014 (Game #5 Completed on p.4)
Painnen wrote: Here I thought you waited soooo long because you fell flat in the game but it was quite the contrary. You played really well and giving that turn 7 a go with only a minute left in the round was a thing of pure sportsmanship gold. I follow you for the strategy but now I've witnessed a whole new level of your gamesmanship. I'd play against you all day everyday. The BAO needed this bat rep after the winner was such a "that guy".
Props JY2. Major props. (Props>forgetting two psychic phases btw)
Thank you very much. Although I am a competitive player at heart and enjoy winning, this is still a game after all and winning isn't everything. What's more important to me is the spirit of the game, and that spirit is to have fun and a good, fair competition.
sela wrote: Great report btw. What are your thoughts on gravstar in the competitive environment, btw? I'm thinking about running it in a tournament soon.
It's really good. The centurionstar is a proven winner. Tim Gorham won I believe 2 GT's with it, and it does consistently well in competitive play.
Though I fear that it may have taken somewhat of a hit with the new GK codex. Now you can no longer bring in Coteaz and cheap MSU henchmen troops as well as GK allies (at least not in most tournaments). However, on the plus side, you can bring in the new and improved Draigo for those tournaments that allow Lords of War.
Overall, I think that it will still be a top-tier tournament army.
BTW, here's a tip for you. Seriously, take a good look at Cypher for your centstar. He complements them really, really well.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/26 04:33:16
There was a blog post about the winner having some questionable rules calls in one of his games as well as almost being kicked out because he had 1 of the unsportsmanlike game things and almost got a second.
People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer
Fragile wrote: Sad Jy2. Theres no reason that army should have even touched yours without the Psychic screwups and obvious bad rolling.
I wouldn't under-estimate his army. With Gate and Prescience, he can actually reliably kill 1 flying FMC a turn. Moreover, his dreadknights would have dominated my ground forces. But my screwup did hurt a lot. Oh well, live and learn. Live and learn....
Wow, what an awesome bat rep. Very, very sporting of you to play that last turn (or the small portion of it that mattered) with only a minute to go! It seems like your opponent maybe should have just called it at the end of 6, though, since starting a turn with that little time remaining definitely isn't required (or even allowed, depending on the event!).
But you did the right thing and you should be proud of the way you played . Awesome writeup, I was on edge just reading it, even though I knew the outcome from your hints!
2014/08/27 19:19:59
Subject: 1850 Sky Fleet Pandora at the BAO GT 2014 (Game #5 Completed on p.4)
I don't understand why with 1 minute left you try to play Turn 7? Your opponent tried calling it after the top of 6 and played out the bottom of 6. You cannot feasibly play 30 seconds each in 7 so the game should have just ended.
-5000 Pts. of Orks
-1750 Pts. of Ravenwing
2014/09/23 06:52:46
Subject: Re:1850 Sky Fleet Pandora at the BAO GT 2014 (Game #5 Completed on p.4)
Out of town currently. Will finish when I get back.
y0disisray wrote: I don't understand why with 1 minute left you try to play Turn 7? Your opponent tried calling it after the top of 6 and played out the bottom of 6. You cannot feasibly play 30 seconds each in 7 so the game should have just ended.
That's just not how I roll. As long as my opponent has been cool throughout the game, I will give him the benefit of the doubt, even in this type of situation where the game was on the line.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/23 06:53:56
So, you've got lots of experience playing cent star. I'm curious why you didn't vector strike it on turn one to thin it out a bit. It would give up one BS3 haywire missile into a rhino from the Crone, and nothing from the harpies.
I understand that you wouldn't expect to do much damage to it, but with the Mawloc coming in and all of the perils it might have taken another model or two.
2014/09/27 14:44:17
Subject: Re:1850 Sky Fleet Pandora at the BAO GT 2014 (Game #5 Completed on p.4)
tag8833 wrote: So, you've got lots of experience playing cent star. I'm curious why you didn't vector strike it on turn one to thin it out a bit. It would give up one BS3 haywire missile into a rhino from the Crone, and nothing from the harpies.
I understand that you wouldn't expect to do much damage to it, but with the Mawloc coming in and all of the perils it might have taken another model or two.
Because I was focused on taking out his troops and decided to fire 2 haywire shots at it instead. Also, going after his centstar (i.e. flying over them) would have taken my FMC's away from the path of his troops, which was probably what he had wanted. Thus, had I attempted to vector his deathstar, it would have taken my FMC's out of position relative to where I had wanted to go. Finally, I was trying to land in the ruins for the 4+ cover. Going over his centstar meant that I would be in the air and forced to jink if he had targeted those units, thus taking away some of my offense next turn (BTW, I had the Stealth in Ruins Warlord Trait).
For Game #6, I went up against another drop pod list. This time, it was Salamanders by Trevor of Sacramanento, and it was with a lot of Forgeworld tanks. TorretofFire did a splotlight on my Game #6 opponent, Trevor, shortly after the BAO:
Apparently, Trevor is a veteran of the gaming community, having been involved in it for the last 15 years (actually, probably more). He's done it all. He's been a player, a gaming store owner/entreprenuer and a TO of tournaments large and small. He's also played almost every 40K army under the sun and owns most of them. Of course I didn't know any of this at the time. All I knew was that 1) drop pod marines are really good, 2) unfortunately, I am going 2nd again and 3) wow....those Forgeworld tanks of his are really good! So going into the game, I knew it was going to be another tough, tough game for my bugs. But at least, it will be the very last one.
Currently, I am the top Tyranid player. Geoff "InControl" Robinson is 2nd. If I can win this game (or if both Geoff and I lose), then I will win Best Tyranids. So I need to try my best and hit a homer for the Hive Mind.
1850 SPACE MARINES SALAMANDERS
Librarian
Librarian
Techmarine w/1x Servitor
5x Command Squad - 4x Meltaguns, 4x Storm Shields, Apothecary
Drop Pod
10x Tacticals - Meltagun, Multi-melta, Combi-melta
Drop Pod
10x Tacticals - Meltagun, Multi-melta, Combi-melta
Drop Pod
10x Tacticals - Meltagun, Multi-melta, Combi-melta
Drop Pod
5x Scouts
Land Speeder Storm - Heavy Flamer
5x Assault Marines - 2x Flamers
Drop Pod
Land Raider Achilles
Relic Whirlwind Scorpius
Relic Sicarian Battle Tank
1. Hold Either Objective 1.
2. Hold Either Objective 2.
3. Destroy an enemy unit.
4. Destroy an enemy unit.
5. Have a scoring unit at least partially within the enemy deployment zone.
6. Have at least 3 of your scoring units and no enemy scoring units at least partially within your own deployment zone.
Tertiary Objectives: First Blood, Linebreaker, Slay the Warlord, 1-pt each
Trevor's army is worrisome. His Forgeworld tanks are really good. The Achilles I know about. It is basically an indestructible piece of hardware, especially when you have a techmarine inside repairing it as it gets damaged. The Sicarian battle tank has very good firepower and can ignore jink saves. It can potentially take down 1 harpy/hive crone a turn. But the tank that worries me the most is the Whirlwind Scorpius. I was told by my opponent that it fires D3+1 S8 AP3 blasts and get this....it ignores cover! WOW! That's potentially 1 dead flyrant a turn if they're on the ground. The rest of his army is solid as well, with 30 ObSec bodies and 3 ObSec drop pods. So it's either deal with his tanks or deal with his infantry. Hmmm....decisions, decisions. What's worse is that one of his librarians got Invisibility. That can be a game-changer there. Overall, with all his firepower and his guaranteed Turn 1 alpha-strike, I felt that I needed to go first in order to get my FMC's into the air. Unfortunately, for the 4th game in a row against alpha-strike marine armies, I've failed to do so. So far, in each of my game where I got alpha-struck, I've lost a flyrant. I don't have a good feeling that my flyrant will survive his alpha-strike. However, as opposed to Game #1 against another drop pod army, this time, I am going to deploy all my flyrants on the table and hope to do damage right off the bat on Turn 1. Hopefully, I'll have a little more success with this strategy.
Salamander deployment. Shrouding Librarian goes in the Achilles with the techmarine. Invisible Librarian will come in with the Command squad.
My deployment. I leave my crone/harpies in reserves as well as 1 unit of gargoyles. Gargoyles, rippers and mawloc will deepstrike. Harpies, crone, biovores and zoan will walk on from my deployment edge.
My opponent then infiltrates his scouts in land speeder storm.
1. Hold Either Objective 1.
5. Have a scoring unit at least partially within the enemy deployment zone.
Tyranids:
2. Hold Either Objective 2.
5. Have a scoring unit at least partially within the enemy deployment zone.
The Command squad comes in and goes after the bastion. His Libby casts Invisibility on them.
His troops combat-squad.
The 3rd unit of marines drop towards my right flank. Land speeder prepares to roast some gargoyles.
Tanks mobilize.
Shooting from tact marines kill 9 gargoyles from 1 brood and 3 from another.
The Command squad fails to take down the bastion.
However....
....he is able to finish off my Warlord for both Slay the Warlord and First Blood. Now it wasn't the Scorpius which killed him (though I believe it did cause 1W). Rather it was bolters, maybe the Command squad (can't recall entirely) and just bad saves on my part (with 2+ jink cover from the venomthrope). And for the 2nd time now, it came down to his last shot and my last save, which failed, to kill off my Warlord.
Tyranids 1
Spoiler:
I decide to assault his combat squads instead. My hope is to finish them off with my flyrants in my opponent's Assault phase. I figured this way, I could more efficiently kill his combat squads (shooting would have killed 3 marines on average and thus would require 2 turns of shooting by my flyrants just to kill off 1 combat squad).
Gargoyles go to try to tie up his Command squad.
Both flyrants fire their egrubs only onto the combat squads. I don't kill any marines. However, I do manage to take off 2 HP's from the drop pod.
Flyrants then assault....
....as do the gargoyles.
Both flyrants Smash to minimize the damage. I kill 1 guy from each unit. In return, he takes off 1W from my flyrant with a krak grenade.
Gargoyles can't do anything to the Invisible Command squad. He kills off the unit of 1 gargoyle and also 2 gargoyles from the other unit.
At the end of the turn, my opponent jumps to an early lead on the Secondary Mission. I fail to achieve either of my Maelstrom objectives (he's got an ObSec unit contesting my objective). My opponent, on the other hand, achieves both of his objectives with an ObSec unit on Objective #1 and by having units in my deployment zone.
Maelstrom VP's - Marines: 2, Tyranids: 0
Space Marines 2
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
I apologize, but I lost my notes with regards to the Maelstrom objectives.
Last tact squad drops in and combat squads.
SM movement.
Tanks repostition themselves.
Meltas take out the bastion and ensuing collapse takes out the venomthrope as well.
His Invisible Command squad then finishes off the gargoyles.
In combat, I don't hold back anymore. My flyrant attacks with its full fury.....and only kills 1.
Actually, neither flyrants are able to get out of combat.
Well, that sucked. Should have just left them flying to shoot instead.
Tyranids 2
Spoiler:
Now despite losing my bastion and Comms Relay, I roll very well for my Reserves and most of my guys come in (well, the important ones, anyways).
Mawloc comes up on top of a combat squad and wipes them out.
All 3 flyers come in. 1 unit of gargoyles respawn.
The crone vector-strikes the land speeder and takes off 1HP from it.
He then flames and wrecks it. However, none of the scouts inside dies!
The rest of my shooting is pathetic and I only manage to kill another 2 marines.
In Assault, I am forced to Smash again with my flyrants to keep them locked in combat for another turn.
This turn, we both manage to achieve both of our Maelstrom objectives (though I don't remember what they were).
Maelstrom VP's - Marines: 4, Tyranids: 2
Space Marines 3
Spoiler:
Finally, the last drop pod with the dual-flamer Assault squad comes in.
Marine shooting takes out not 1 unit of gargoyles....
....but 2 unit of gargoyles.
The Invisible Command squad would charge into 1 of my flyrants to try to lock it in place.
I do manage to finish off the tact marine, but basically, my flyrant and his Command squad remain locked in combat for the rest of the game.
The failrant just cannot get out of combat! 2 marines remain.
Tyranids 3
Spoiler:
Gargoyles respawn but mishap on the deepstrike. My opponent then places them in the very corner of his deployment zone.
Fortunately for me, both units of gargoyles come back.
Rippers deepstrike and almost scatter off the table.
I manage to kill 2 marines from 2 different combat squads.
Here I kill 4 marines from 3 different units with my flyers.
At this rate, perhaps my flyrant may get out of combat by the time the game ends.
Finally, my mawloc attempts to charge one of the combat squad but fails.
This turn, I fail to achieve any of my Maelstrom objectives. Trevor, on the other hand, manages to get both of his for a commanding lead on the Secondary.
Maelstrom VP's - Marines: 6, Tyranids: 2
Space Marines 4
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
At this point, I concede the Secondary. I am too far behind in the Secondary (the Maelstrom objectives) and this may very well be the last turn of the game.
Marines go after my gargoyles/mawloc.
He manages to pin my gargoyles out of Synapse with his shooting (I believe it may have been from the Scorpius). Doh! Crap, I really needed them mobile next turn.
I believe he put a couple of wounds on my mawloc.
Scouts move and then run towards the objective.
Finally, my flyrant is able to break out of combat.
Tyranids 4
Spoiler:
Flyrant shoots down the scouts. But rippers go and grab the objective just in case.
Hive crone goes to contest the objective held by the assault marines.
I also take an objective here and my harpy glides to take the objective in my opponent's deployment zone.
Game ends due to time.
My opponent has dominated me in the Secondary, winning it 6-2 for 3-pts.
I take Primary with 3 objectives to his 0, thus giving me 4-pts.
However, my opponent gets both First Blood and Warlord.
I have both my gargoyles and 1 harpy in his deployment zone for Linebreaker.
So it is a tie at 5-5. But wait....
It turns out that his 2 marines are in my deployment zone, thus giving him Linebreaker as well.
So actually, Marines take it 6-5!
Minor Victory for the Salamanders Space Marines!!!
NOOOOO!!!! I almost had the draw, but I messed up on my very last turn! I should have focused on taking out his 2 marines in my deployment zone for Linebreaker! Aargh!
But honestly, I can't say that I am too disappointed in this game. I was basically down the entire game, ever since my opponent took out my Warlord on Turn 1 for both Warlord and First Blood. From there, it was playing catchup the entire game. Combine that with the fact that my offense was just horrible in this game and I'm actually somewhat proud of almost getting the draw. Assaulting the flyrants into those combat squads turned out to be a disastrous decision on my part as I just couldn't get them out of combat....against just 5 guys!!! WTF?!? None of my shooting was very effective as my blasts kept scattering or my opponent made his saves. I mean, come on....I flame his land speeder with an AP4 flamer against scouts with only 4+ saves and can't even manage to kill a single scout! That was just how lousy my offense was.
And yet, I was still able to make it close. You see, nowadays, the game is more about Movement and positioning. You don't have to be great in shooting or assault, but if you have great mobility, then you're never really out of the game. Despite getting outshot, beaten up and having to battle uphill in 3 of my games against Marines - Game #1 vs drop pod Ultramarines, Game #5 against the Centurionstar and this game - I was still able to make it close thanks to my mobility and positioning. Trevor thought he had this game won handily, and then he could barely believe it when he thought I was able to pull off the draw in the end. Perhaps the best compliment I received all day was when he said that I used Jedi mind tricks to almost take this game away from him. (BTW, that was my use of misdirection tactics and "you've got this game won" strategy, thus lulling my opponent into a false sense of security that "he's got the game in the bag".) Lol.
So Geoff wins his last game and I lose mine. Thus, Geoff surpasses me to take Best Tyranids, with me coming in as the 2nd best Tyranid player. I ended up 35th Overall (out of about 120 players. All of my Marine opponents did very well. Carlos, my Game #1 Ultramarines opponent, finished 2nd Overall with 5 Wins and 1 Draw (courtesy of yours truly). Ben, my Game #3 White Scars/Astra Militarum opponent and fellow Team Zero Comp teammate (whose only loss in the tournament was from me) ended the tournament 10th Overall. Trevor, my Game #6 Salamanders opponent, finished 13th and Eric, my Game #5 Grey Knights Centurionstar opponent, finished at 14th. I can't believe how good Marines have become in this edition. At the BAO, 5 of the Top 10 were Marine armies and 9 out of the Top 15 were Marines (well, technically 1 of those armies were Grey Knights with Marine allies). Rounding out the Top 10 were 2 Eldar (including Mortetvie, who finished 3rd Overall), 2 Necrons and 1 Tau (Spam Adams). I can't say that I was really happy with my performance at this tournament, but I did have some good competition against some tough opponents and that's all I can really ask for. In any case, I am looking forwards to the Las Vegas Open (LVO) GT next. Maybe I'll see some of you there, but until then, ciao! It's been a pleasure.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2014/10/06 20:54:37
jy2 is The man! Love the tactical overview of your games.
Makes me want to play my nids in such a different way than I normally do but then I dont have a skyblight formation. (recycling obesc gargoyles seem sooo much useful. )
7th ed is all about mobility and this formation has it all over the place. The way jy2 plays it makes me re-think my perception of the tyranid army as a competitive threat.
2014/10/06 20:58:31
Subject: 1850 Sky Fleet Pandora at the BAO GT 2014 (Game #5 Completed on p.4)
cyberjonesy wrote: jy2 is The man! Love the tactical overview of your games.
Makes me want to play my nids in such a different way than I normally do but then I dont have a skyblight formation. (recycling obesc gargoyles seem sooo much useful. )
7th ed is all about mobility and this formation has it all over the place. The way jy2 plays it makes me re-think my perception of the tyranid army as a competitive threat.
Thanks!
It's not easy and Tyranids are by no means a top-tier army currently. However, they can surprise you if you're not prepared for them and with some creative/tactical play, they can still do well in competitive play.
Thanks for reading, and I encourage anyone who may like the playstyle to give Tyranids a try.
Great reports, thanks for writing them all up (finally!).
I was thinking about starting nids as my second army and these batreps have given me a good idea of what to build towards and how to play them. Seeing how all your other SM opponents have used theirs also helped me a great deal with my SM lists - I especially love the Salamanders force in game 6, refreshing to see no Centstar/Tiggy/Coatez combo yet still performing well. Its true what they say, to get the best out of SM you have to absolutely maximize the CT.
Cheers again
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/07 02:38:22
If in doubt, frag it out...
Fight spam with spam, cheese with cheese, and fluff with a razor sharp sense of the appropriate
Dozer Blades wrote: The dice weren't helping you that last game but you were still in there right to the end! Can't wait to see what you bring to Vegas !!!
Can't wait to go but honestly, I don't know what I'll be bringing yet. Will probably decide by next year. Rumour is Necrons are coming out end of October and I'm pretty sure you can say bye bye to wargear such as Mindshackles and expect an increase in a lot of other stuff. In other words, you're probably going to see the crons get nerfed, so for now, it's going to be wait-&-see.
Iapedus wrote: Great reports, thanks for writing them all up (finally!).
I was thinking about starting nids as my second army and these batreps have given me a good idea of what to build towards and how to play them. Seeing how all your other SM opponents have used theirs also helped me a great deal with my SM lists - I especially love the Salamanders force in game 6, refreshing to see no Centstar/Tiggy/Coatez combo yet still performing well. Its true what they say, to get the best out of SM you have to absolutely maximize the CT.
Cheers again
Nids can be fun but they can also be challenging to play. They have some good builds, but they do struggle against some of the top competitive armies, just like I struggled somewhat against some of Space Marine armies here. Nids also present matchup problems to a lot of armies as well. In terms of power level, they are probably an upper mid-tier army (whereas Necrons, Eldar and Space Marines are considered top-tier armies). However, I never encourage people to play armies due to how strong they are. Rather, I encourage you to try out an army you think looks cool and whose playstyle you think may be fun. Tyranids may not be the most competitive army out there, but they are definitely fun to play and you can still do well with them.
Yeah, for Marines, you definitely should use their Chapter Tactics to their full potential in order to get the most out of them. Probably the most successful of the CT's are White Scars (biker armies), Salamanders (for drop pod armies) and Ultramarines (for centstars and/or drop pod armies). However, I've seen people use and do really well with Ravenguards and Imperial Fists as well.
jy2 wrote: I never encourage people to play armies due to how strong they are. Rather, I encourage you to try out an army you think looks cool and whose playstyle you think may be fun. Tyranids may not be the most competitive army out there, but they are definitely fun to play and you can still do well with them.
Yeah, absolutely - my main reason for wanting to start nids is because aesthetically I think they are some of the best stuff GW do for 40k.
If in doubt, frag it out...
Fight spam with spam, cheese with cheese, and fluff with a razor sharp sense of the appropriate
You need a Master of Relics to field more than one Relic vehicle, and there wasn't one listed (Master of the Forge for vanilla Space Marines).
Edit: ok, Thud already saw that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/07 16:31:29
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
2014/10/07 16:54:24
Subject: Re:1850 Sky Fleet Pandora at the BAO GT 2014 (Game #6 Completed on p.6)
You need a Master of Relics to field more than one Relic vehicle, and there wasn't one listed (Master of the Forge for vanilla Space Marines).
Edit: ok, Thud already saw that.
Thanks for pointing it out guys. That's one of the problems in competitive play nowadays. There is just too much source material - codices, supplements, dataslates and then all those Forgeworld units/special rules - that mistakes like this is bound to happen and there is no way TO's can catch all of them.
I will let him know if I ever see him again in the future.
You need a Master of Relics to field more than one Relic vehicle, and there wasn't one listed (Master of the Forge for vanilla Space Marines).
Edit: ok, Thud already saw that.
Thanks for pointing it out guys. That's one of the problems in competitive play nowadays. There is just too much source material - codices, supplements, dataslates and then all those Forgeworld units/special rules - that mistakes like this is bound to happen and there is no way TO's can catch all of them.
I will let him know if I ever see him again in the future.
Geez, if there only was some way to transmit, at the speed of light, your army list to a TO before the event, so they can scan them to find any such illegalities...well, maybe someday.
2014/10/08 20:35:40
Subject: Re:1850 Sky Fleet Pandora at the BAO GT 2014 (Game #6 Completed on p.6)
tomjoad wrote: Geez, if there only was some way to transmit, at the speed of light, your army list to a TO before the event, so they can scan them to find any such illegalities...well, maybe someday.
Keep in mind this event is pretty big. It is impractical to proof the hundreds of army lists the BAO would get, no matter how fast you transmit your list. Just imagine if you (alone) had to proof over a 100 lists each drawing from among a dozen different books...ouch.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/08 20:36:32
2014/10/08 21:22:50
Subject: 1850 Sky Fleet Pandora at the BAO GT 2014 (Game #6 Completed on p.6)
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
. Awesome writeup, I was on edge just reading it, even though I knew the outcome from your hints!
3000
4000 
-5000 Pts. of Orks
-1750 Pts. of Ravenwing 
