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I just realized that you can see a shield generator similar to the Riptide on the thing from a side profile. I'm guessing it must have an option to purchase a shield.

this is a table edge unit. It's 3+ keeps it safer from grav drops. We all know riptides are a point sink for tau and one of the weaker choices you can bring... Why not give eva-nerds their glory and distract them from the true power of the Tau. I will say, it seems really meant to thin out infantry so you can focus more on hammerheads, or possibly even find a reason to field a Tau air unit.

The page where the pic originally came from says 90 euros. So thats what?... $134 US and god knows what Australian.

I definitely think it's adequate for its cost. The problem, as I see it, is that it's redundant. The stormsurge doesn't really do anything that can't be done by other tau units more efficiently. I don't need (or want) any more strength 5 AP 5 shooting, and 2 strength 10 shots (or 4 if stationary and within 20") isn't that effective against other GMCs or SHWs for 360+ points. It can hurt them of course, but just not that much for what you pay. Still it's reasonably costed all things considered, it just doesn't fill any new gaps in the the Tau war machine.

Also, comparing the stormsurge (or practically any unit/creature/vehicle) to the defiler isn't very relevant when the defiler is largely considered to be one of the (if not the number one) worst vehicles in the game. Even leman russ battle tanks look good compared to the defiler.

Considering I feel the model is mediocre I'll probably skip buying one. Though I will wait to see the new codex and what support systems and formations bonuses it can get before I make up my mind for sure.

 chalkobob wrote:
I definitely think it's adequate for its cost. The problem, as I see it, is that it's redundant. The stormsurge doesn't really do anything that can't be done by other tau units more efficiently. I don't need (or want) any more strength 5 AP 5 shooting, and 2 strength 10 shots (or 4 if stationary and within 20") isn't that effective against other GMCs or SHWs for 360+ points. It can hurt them of course, but just not that much for what you pay. Still it's reasonably costed all things considered, it just doesn't fill any new gaps in the the Tau war machine.

Also, comparing the stormsurge (or practically any unit/creature/vehicle) to the defiler isn't very relevant when the defiler is largely considered to be one of the (if not the number one) worst vehicles in the game. Even leman russ battle tanks look good compared to the defiler.

Considering I feel the model is mediocre I'll probably skip buying one. Though I will wait to see the new codex and what support systems and formations bonuses it can get before I make up my mind for sure.

I don't really think its intended to plug into your current list. I think the trick to the stormsurge is it can replace some of your current S5 so you can field some of the other units with a higher strength role.Not that it will necessarily be a good choice though.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I just realized that you can see a shield generator similar to the Riptide on the thing from a side profile. I'm guessing it must have an option to purchase a shield.

Well, remember that all the "baked-in" Support Systems that each kind of Suit has currently are part of the actual Suit profiles.

It very well could have a Shield Generator, we just aren't seeing it yet because of it being a Wargear line.

*Wish listing alert*
Would be amazing if this suit can take iridium armor for a +1 T and a 2+ AS! Then a shield generator and EWO!

Does anyone know when the tau codex is supposed to be coming out?

Trystis wrote:


I don't really think its intended to plug into your current list. I think the trick to the stormsurge is it can replace some of your current S5 so you can field some of the other units with a higher strength role.Not that it will necessarily be a good choice though.

Well, here's hoping the new fire warrior variant shoots something other than Strength 5, AP 5. Or they let us keep taking crisis suits as troops.

Bubble wrap 4" out with kroot and kill away. I think it's quite good. Stop comparing everything to the broken/OPness of Eldar.

 chalkobob wrote:

Trystis wrote:


I don't really think its intended to plug into your current list. I think the trick to the stormsurge is it can replace some of your current S5 so you can field some of the other units with a higher strength role.Not that it will necessarily be a good choice though.

Well, here's hoping the new fire warrior variant shoots something other than Strength 5, AP 5. Or they let us keep taking crisis suits as troops.

Something's gotta give. If all our guns have the same stats I can't see this being used too much. Way too much 5/5 everywhere else that you can't get rid of so why bring even more? It seems redundant. Now it's all up to a new codex to make this guy playabale. As it is now with the current dex? Less than stellar.

I swear if I see anymore 5/5 options in our army I'm going to freak out.

It's like complimentary breadsticks, at first i's good and supplmental but now it's like complimentary breadstick factory and no main course. Just too much.

How this thing really plays out is really dependent on what subsystems remain in existence and how much subsystems cost. Don't count on everything remaining the same, a lot of armies lost quite a few options in their new codices.

This thing does have a problem with being swept due to those supports, which would be a shame for a 8W model to disappear. The fact it is Ld8 makes it pretty vulnerable to Shrieking it to death too.

Long story short, at this time this thing is actually pretty potent at what it does, but it is beatable. And that is the way it should be.

Maybe I'm too idealistic, but perhaps this means the hammerhead returns to its real role as an anti armor beast.

 arinnoor wrote:
Maybe I'm too idealistic, but perhaps this means the hammerhead returns to its real role as an anti armor beast.

Returns? When was it ever? Broadsides always did the same job but better. I'd take 3 shots that can be split any way I want and twin-linked (optional BS4 independent of markers) any day. There really wasn't anything they could do to make the hammerhead worth taking for me.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
How this thing really plays out is really dependent on what subsystems remain in existence and how much subsystems cost. Don't count on everything remaining the same, a lot of armies lost quite a few options in their new codices.

This thing does have a problem with being swept due to those supports, which would be a shame for a 8W model to disappear. The fact it is Ld8 makes it pretty vulnerable to Shrieking it to death too.

Long story short, at this time this thing is actually pretty potent at what it does, but it is beatable. And that is the way it should be.

...its fearless.

 Savageconvoy wrote:

 arinnoor wrote:
Maybe I'm too idealistic, but perhaps this means the hammerhead returns to its real role as an anti armor beast.

Returns? When was it ever? Broadsides always did the same job but better. I'd take 3 shots that can be split any way I want and twin-linked (optional BS4 independent of markers) any day. There really wasn't anything they could do to make the hammerhead worth taking for me.

Ordinance and perhaps squad up for D.

 Quickjager wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
How this thing really plays out is really dependent on what subsystems remain in existence and how much subsystems cost. Don't count on everything remaining the same, a lot of armies lost quite a few options in their new codices.

This thing does have a problem with being swept due to those supports, which would be a shame for a 8W model to disappear. The fact it is Ld8 makes it pretty vulnerable to Shrieking it to death too.

Long story short, at this time this thing is actually pretty potent at what it does, but it is beatable. And that is the way it should be.

...its fearless.

Derp...Still, it can get zapped to death with Psychic Shriek.

Okay, let me be clear, I do think it's just as ridiculous to compare the stormsurge to a wraithknight as it is to a defiler. The extremes of the balance scale should never be used as the standard measure of a units worth.

I also, as I mentioned earlier, find the stormsurge to be appropriately costed. It's just right actually, neither being too bad or too good.

My issue is it does what almost every other tau unit does (infantry hunting), Even the big pulse guns on it are more suited to shooting squads over heavy targets considering that one is always large blast, and the other is either a large blast at its longest distance, a small blast at middle distance and only being single shot at 10" and under. Adding more anti infantry to the tau is like trying to sell someone wondering around in a desert a cup full of sand. Even if that is the worlds highest quality sand, its impossible to get too excited for it.

Consider the following units all come with, can be given, or have buffs unique to strength 5 AP 5 guns in the Tau Empire codex (Also consider tau, as an entire faction unto itself, has one of the smallest unit selections):

Commanders, fire blades, ethereals* (they have a buff exclusively for pulse weapons), fire warriors, drone sentry turrets, devilfish, riptides, crisis suits, stealth suits, drone squads, pathfinders, piranhas, sunshark bombers, razorshark fighters, drone remoras, barracudas, hazard suits, hammerhead gunships, skyray missile gunships, broadside battlesuits, heavy gun drones, Ta'unar supremacy battlesuits, manta missile destroyers, tiger shark bombers (of all varieties), and orca dropships.

It's easier (and far shorter) to just list what can't be given strength 5.

At this point in time I am the someone wandering through the desert. Please, GW, don't give me more sand.

 chalkobob wrote:
Okay, let me be clear, I do think it's just as ridiculous to compare the stormsurge to a wraithknight as it is to a defiler. The extremes of the balance scale should never be used as the standard measure of a units worth.

I also, as I mentioned earlier, find the stormsurge to be appropriately costed. It's just right actually, neither being too bad or too good.

My issue is it does what almost every other tau unit does (infantry hunting), Even the big pulse guns on it are more suited to shooting squads over heavy targets considering that one is always large blast, and the other is either a large blast at its longest distance, a small blast at middle distance and only being single shot at 10" and under. Adding more anti infantry to the tau is like trying to sell someone wondering around in a desert a cup full of sand. Even if that is the worlds highest quality sand, its impossible to get too excited for it.

Consider the following units all come with, can be given, or have buffs unique to strength 5 AP 5 guns in the Tau Empire codex (Also consider tau, as an entire faction unto itself, has one of the smallest unit selections):

Commanders, fire blades, ethereals* (they have a buff exclusively for pulse weapons), fire warriors, drone sentry turrets, devilfish, riptides, crisis suits, stealth suits, drone squads, pathfinders, piranhas, sunshark bombers, razorshark fighters, drone remoras, barracudas, hazard suits, hammerhead gunships, skyray missile gunships, broadside battlesuits, heavy gun drones, Ta'unar supremacy battlesuits, manta missile destroyers, tiger shark bombers (of all varieties), and orca dropships.

It's easier (and far shorter) to just list what can't be given strength 5.

At this point in time I am the someone wandering through the desert. Please, GW, don't give me more sand.

Perfect analogy.

 chalkobob wrote:
Okay, let me be clear, I do think it's just as ridiculous to compare the stormsurge to a wraithknight as it is to a defiler. The extremes of the balance scale should never be used as the standard measure of a units worth.

Well, great. You just invalidated pretty much the entire previous discussion.

But you are the first one to figure out why I brought up the Defiler, so gold star to you!

Of course, you're also on the same page as I am, where we both see the Tau suit as OK/good, not bad, not broken.

Didn't people use to think that the tau riptide when it was first spoiled was awful and bad til the rest of the codex came out and people saw how to use it properly? I could see this people the same thing. I think it's pretty solid for it's points.

Serious question, not a rhetorical question.

Oberron wrote:
Didn't people use to think that the tau riptide when it was first spoiled was awful and bad til the rest of the codex came out and people saw how to use it properly? I could see this people the same thing. I think it's pretty solid for it's points.

Serious question, not a rhetorical question.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I purchased the last Tau codex a week after it was released, and I knew right off the bat the riptide was broken. I was actually naive enough to assume that it having access to early warning override was an error and was going to be FAQed. Took me about a year before I purchased a riptide, and even then, I gave it the heavy burst cannon, and no EWO.

The really sad thing is that this suit even needs to exist in the first place.

I remember a time when T6 was considered extremely tough and T8 of the Wraithlord godly. Now T6 and 3+ save is more or less low end of survivability and a joke to others.

This is pretty much why I stopped playing 40K. Its really sad when the offical model has stats on par with the inflated make believe uber killy stuff my 10 yr old son comes up with when doing his super battle narratives

OMG they are so damn funny to listen to in the background.

 Jayden63 wrote:
The really sad thing is that this suit even needs to exist in the first place.

I remember a time when T6 was considered extremely tough and T8 of the Wraithlord godly. Now T6 and 3+ save is more or less low end of survivability and a joke to others.

This is pretty much why I stopped playing 40K. Its really sad when the offical model has stats on par with the inflated make believe uber killy stuff my 10 yr old son comes up with when doing his super battle narratives

OMG they are so damn funny to listen to in the background.

Aye, this is what has astounded me, and that it basically rocketed to the moon in like 18 months. I've stopped attending events and have limited my play to occasional pre-arranged games, which is I guess what GW has wanted all along, but it's also certainly cut down on my spending

I remember at T6 W4 3+ a basic Carnifex was considered fairly tough, aT6 W4 2+sv Hive Tyrant or T6 W6 3+sv Trygon *very* tough, and even a T5 W4 3+/5++ Daemon Prince was no slouch in 4E/5E and even early 6E. Then came the 2013 codex books and then 7E and early 2015 books and everything just went complete bonkers.

re- the arms race... a lot of people bemoan it as something that they dislike. Yet clearly, this is what fans are asking for, based on both their buying patterns (people buy the big, powerful models), AND what people vote as their favorite models. If you look at the 2014 readers' choices, they were almost all giant, powerful creatures that were also sophisticated, super-premium models.

It's almost unimaginable for a very sophisticated small model to be chosen as readers' favorites, no matter how cool or awesome it is. Mark my words, when they do 2015, it won't be Dominus, or Librarian, or Chaplain or Windrider -- it will be some monster $150+ model like Skarbrand, Bloodthirster, Celestant-Prime, Stormsurge, Ghostkeel, or even the IK v2. Mabye Venator will have a chance to be in the running -- so far, that's *my* favorite model

Incidentally,. I went against the grain last year and voted for Durthu; I don't think he even came close.

Oberron wrote:
Didn't people use to think that the tau riptide when it was first spoiled was awful and bad til the rest of the codex came out and people saw how to use it properly? I could see this people the same thing. I think it's pretty solid for it's points.

Serious question, not a rhetorical question.

Yeah, for sure. This is sold as a "support platform". So it's pretty important what it's supporting, right? Or, more aptly, what's supporting it!

I mean large models are meant to be centerpieces right? So the focus of the army will have the sculptors trying their hardest on them and bring out the most detail. So the best looking pieces tend to be the large ones.

I mean the Warlord Titan looks daaaaaamn nice.

 Talys wrote:
re- the arms race... a lot of people bemoan it as something that they dislike. Yet clearly, this is what fans are asking for, based on both their buying patterns (people buy the big, powerful models), AND what people vote as their favorite models. If you look at the 2014 readers' choices, they were almost all giant, powerful creatures that were also sophisticated, super-premium models.

As display pieces, as models, a lot of them are great. No argument. Big models have always really been intended as centerpiece showcase items.

However, a large factor of what's driving their popularity is their power and relatively low cost. Yeah, people are gonna love them when they're both awesome looking and incredibly powerful for a relatively small points investment.

Big models have existed for quite some time, the IG Baneblade has been around for 8 years now, but we aren't seeing them flying off shelves or being included in lists with the frequency of things like Knights or Wraithknights because they're largely sanely costed.

Well as I think was mentioned somewhere this is artillery piece, the Tau version of a Basilisk. It's even specifically mentioned that it is not a battlesuit, but a "ballistic" suit, which I assume means one made exclusively for shooting,

(Why do the Tau use tanks again?)

Anyway, it is not meant to be a frontline combatant, and is (relatively) weakly armored for that reason. The bulk of the suit is presumably power plants and supports and so forth, not armor. It's supposed to be in the rear of the army providing support. Not in the front tanking forepower. Again, it's the Tau version of a Basilisk or Thunderfire Cannon or Mek Gun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, 4 S9 large blast attacks is not bad anti-armor.

Quickjager wrote:So what if they have to get in close to HP units to use their good anti-tank. There are very few vehicles that are real threats to them, is it bad that Tau are moderately balanced by having to screen certain units in a display of some tactical skill? Do you WANT to do nothing but shoot, shoot, move & shoot?

The D is not an issue (ironically for once), but this unit is still GOOD! How are people seeing otherwise? Just because we are comparing it to THEE most broken units in the game already?

Tau don't have psykers and no good melee units to speak of. Tau don't like to reach close combat (they don't even train for that), so what's the point of so short ranged weapons? Our shortest range was 18", and only DS/fast units used those.
What we have is Movement and Shooting. So yes, what we do is move and shoot.

The SS isn't that appealing to Tau players because we were promised (as the fluff text says) an anti-tank/super-heavy unit, but what we got is ANOTHER anti-infantry model. We have those in spades already.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alcibiades wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, 4 S9 large blast attacks is not bad anti-armor.

At 20"? Yep, it is. We already have lots of short-ranged good AT. And 4 shots only after 1 entire turn deployed, close to the enemy (which will charge it).

The multiple fire options Cannon (Macrocannon I think? Can't really read it in the leaked pictures) is kind of useless due to its shorter range making the Pulse Driver Cannon the ultimate choice, especially for the role we need thanks to it being Ordnance. Also already mentioned several times it is easily overshadowed by other weapons units (as of now) found in the Tau Codex still leaving us without any reliable long range anti-armor capability. Personally I feel that it is slightly over costed (not me trying to be a powergaming jerk so anyone who thinks that can shove it) but for what it does in regards to its role currently done better by other Tau units on top of the points cost increase for the Pulse Driver Cannon I don't think it's worth 360 points base. Not saying it isn't a good unit for what you get I just think that it would be better off being 360 points with the upgraded Pulse Driver Cannon and before Support Systems, if those didn't change points cost wise getting FnP and Interceptor would put it at exactly 400pts.

I really hope know one is dumb enough to buy this thing.