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Requizen wrote:

 Plainshow wrote:
It would take a full game turn for the Wraithknight to remove them, because they don't get swept after the first round. Unless the Wraithknight rolls insanely well, it is stopped for two Assault phases.

Depends on how big the unit is. A 5 man unit does nothing.

The goal is sometimes to stall for 1 turn, or prevent a charge from a Wraithknight/Iknight. 5 Praetorians do that admirably. With equal WS, the Knight (either flavor, assuming StrD) hits twice, kills two things (probably). Remove the intervening models between your squad-mates, two stomps, lets assume one is a 6 and can only get 2 Praetorians because you removed the correct casualties earlier. That leaves one guy left with a Str6 hit vs T5, with his 3+/4+++. No Sweep because of Fearless. Not hard, and that's giving some major assumptions to the Knight. It's not that the Praetorians will do anything except stall. The key is that they only stall just for 2 Assaults. The Knight breaks free on your next turn, which is when you can deal with it again. The timing is the thing. Sisters of Silence and Sternguard (1st Co. Strike Force) do this reliably too, and they aren't nearly as tough. A crafty opponent will see the sequence, and may try to Smash the first Assault Phase to break free at the end of your next Assault (free on their turn), but then they gamble that they won't have a bad roll or two, which could see them stuck for a full second turn.

Is it something you want to be doing? Good god no! But it's a fantastic tool to have in your toolbox, when you just need to buy a Turn. Particularly useful when facing a Baronial Court, where the Praetorians were useless anyway, and Wraiths can only hold up so much.

There are actually a few necron players, I imagined there'd be none, but it's a 400+ people event. I got my hands on every list and there's a lot of interesting ones. A lot of people seem to like to pair the Helldrake formation with 2 Helldrakes with Necrons. (I guess you could say it pairs with Anrakyr too)

Anyway, I'm only going to post Baxter's list for now, since he's the most famous necron player I guess, the veteran and he did very well in round two, tabling a very strong War Convo+knight list.

Baxter's "Nightscythes/Tomb Blades/Pylonstar" ----------- Record: (L/W/L/L/W/W)

It's 2 Pylons instead of 3 and there's also no Wraith unit. There's also 2 Flyers with msu Immortal squads and a ton of Tomb Blades. I really like it.

I'll post more lists if you want to.


EDIT: Fennell is playing as well, the same list he had in Goldensprue GT.

Sure, keep posting lists.

Is Alex Fennel in attendance? What's he playing?

col_impact wrote:
Sure, keep posting lists.

Is Alex Fennel in attendance? What's he playing?

Sorry, my edit was too late. He is playing the same list he played in Golden Sprue cup GT (Pylonstar). There's 14 Necron Players in 406~ players and I'm trying to follow them all. Surprisingly, only 3 of them are playing Pylon Star and you already know the 2. There's some really interesting and different lists, however, and I'll get to posting them very soon.


EDIT: So far, in the first two rounds there's 4 Necrons who managed to pull out ahead. Two very standard pylonstars, 1 very standard Dakkadakka-like Judicator Battaltion-Dcult-Decurion and an amazingly tasteful list that I do not understand, because I haven't seen it play.However, it's stomped 1 Deathguard chaos warband with 60~ zombies and havocs and general good stuff and an amazingly competitive DA Lions Blade with a full company, a scout squad aux and RW strike force with Dark shroud for cover saves and a ton of grav guns on bikes. More on that in a later post for more suspense, after Round 3 is over!

 necr0n wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Sure, keep posting lists.

Is Alex Fennel in attendance? What's he playing?

Sorry, my edit was too late. He is playing the same list he played in Golden Sprue cup GT (Pylonstar). There's 14 Necron Players in 406~ players and I'm trying to follow them all. Surprisingly, only 3 of them are playing Pylon Star and you already know the 2. There's some really interesting and different lists, however, and I'll get to posting them very soon.


EDIT: So far, in the first two rounds there's 4 Necrons who managed to pull out ahead. Two very standard pylonstars, 1 very standard Dakkadakka-like Judicator Battaltion-Dcult-Decurion and an amazingly tasteful list that I do not understand, because I haven't seen it play.However, it's stomped 1 Deathguard chaos warband with 60~ zombies and havocs and general good stuff and an amazingly competitive DA Lions Blade with a full company, a scout squad aux and RW strike force with Dark shroud for cover saves and a ton of grav guns on bikes. More on that in a later post for more suspense, after Round 3 is over!

More on this list that beat DG and DA please.

Eddi Macmichael's Spyder list just barely lost 5-6 to a Space Marine/Inquisition/Sisters list, but is still doing well. His list follows:
Eddi Macmichael's "Spyderfarm/Scarabdeathstar" ---------- Record: (W/W/L/L/L/L)


No clue how it works.

UPDATE: In case this was not obvious, this is the "different" list that has crushed the DG and DA Lion's Blade.

EDIT: The only Necron so far with 3 wins is Mike Benton with a Pylonstar that's very similar to Fennell's list. But, all that is very limited to 3 games, as tomorrow there's gonna be another 3, and then the final tables too. So, good luck to the fellow Necrons who send their legions in Las Vegas, we root for you.

Tomorrow, I'm going to post some more lists! Too tired now, due to Americans having LVO in the worst possible time for us europeans!

Sounds like a lot of scarabs?

Interesting seeing that Pylon-star with only two Pylons.
Wonder what the drop in efficiency would be?
Like, is it still able to get things done and has three just been overkill this whole time?

 skoffs wrote:
Interesting seeing that Pylon-star with only two Pylons.
Wonder what the drop in efficiency would be?
Like, is it still able to get things done and has three just been overkill this whole time?

I wonder if it isn't so much a drop in efficiency, but more like a decrease in overkill. He basically traded the 3rd Pylon for 2 Nightscythes, right?

Keep up the good reporting! I'm very interested in that other offbeat list that is doing well.

Well, as far as the Pylon-star itself's actual performance, I wonder how necessary the third Pylon is to the combo.
If it's still able to perform well in that first alpha strike that would free up a bunch of points that could help flesh out the rest of your list (eg. more Tomb Blades).

 skoffs wrote:
Well, as far as the Pylon-star itself's actual performance, I wonder how necessary the third Pylon is to the combo.
If it's still able to perform well in that first alpha strike that would free up a bunch of points that could help flesh out the rest of your list (eg. more Tomb Blades).

Baxter has generally done well in other tournaments, as well. This time luck was not on his side with matchups, so he's got two losses, so far. But, I believe he can really do better now. Round 4 is coming up and we'll see how things go.

A Necron list that's rocking 2 wins already and is quite different as well (although, might be called cheesy):

Nathan Hovis' "Decurion/Double Harvest/Riptide Wing" ------------- Record: (W/L/W/L/L/L)


Which answers my previous question about allying Riptide Wing to Necrons, I guess!

What, exactly, is a Pylonstar? Obviously 2-3 pylons... What else, and why/how does one use it? Something to give it Relentless?

Irrumare wrote:
What, exactly, is a Pylonstar? Obviously 2-3 pylons... What else, and why/how does one use it? Something to give it Relentless?

Anrakyr gives it relentless while it includes several HQ's too boost its survivability (through Res orbs, saves, solar staffs etc) and HQ's too boost its mobility (through Veil of Darkness). There's also HQ's for counter assualt with warscythes and there's also, usually, a destroyer lord for "Prefered Enemy".

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Update on Round 4: The Necrons seem to be falling off. There's not many victories. There are still however two Necron players with 3 out of 4 wins (and a loss). That's Benton's standard Pylonstar list and Hymperys' standard Battalion/D.cult Decurion. Fennell is slightly behind with 2 Wins, 1 Draw and 1 loss. Benton's facing a skitari list up next, Humpherys is taking on Eldar Corsairs and Fennell is going against Eldar. Round 5 is starting any time now!


Here's a list that's different and did decently, that I lost track of after Round 3: (Had Win-Loss-Win)

Stein's "CAD/VoidShield/Helldrakes" -------------------- Record: (W/L/W/--/--/--)


EDIT: All 3 of our top Necron players won their Round 5! Our best player (points wise) is currently Humpherys tied for #29 spot! He's playing next game versus a standard Taudar list (scat bikes, farseers, WK, riptide wing, warp hunters)
Fennell is up against a Two riptide wing + 30 warpsiders list. (Just those formations, no hqs, troops etc) Seems like a really good matchup.
Benton's Pylonstar is, unfortunately, facing a Demons list.

Let's see if they can make the top tables! Good luck to our fellow Necrons!

This is excellent stuff,
Thanks for the updates!
(I don't suppose any of these matches have been videoed/uploaded, have they? Would love to see some bat-reps)

Final LVO Necron update:

Benton and Humpherys lost their Round 6 games while Fennell won his. Turns out, Fennell does not let the Necrons down and he's, for one more time, the highest placing Necron. He was arround ~38th place (one loss away from top 8, if he just didn't get matched with that flying demon list!). Well done to all the Necrons who brought their very creative lists and, honestly, did very well. When I get up tomorrow morning, I'll upload one more very interesting list.

Skoffs, I don't have VoDs of those matches or anything, there was two twitch streams(FrontlineGaming_TV and Warhammer chanell) streaming the event, but only one game, in round 2 included Necrons. And it was Baxter's Pylonstar list that tabled the War Convocation. Honestly, a brilliant game, Baxter is a great player. Can't wait to see how the rest of the event pans out,

Just for the record top 8 armies are:
Eldar Corsairs, 2 Demons, Renegades, Tau, War Convocation, Eldar, DA.
Those are not in order

Yeah... the top 8 has a lot of familiar faces.
Here's the matchups... I think I've got it right.

1. Brandon Grant - Dark Angles vs. 8. Justin Curtis - Chaos Daemons
2. Sean Nayden - Eldar vs. 7. Matt Root - War Conv.
3. Brett Perkins - Chaos Renegades vs. 6. William Abilez - Tau
4. Dan Platt - Chaos Daemons vs. 5. Carter Leach - Eldar Corsairs

 necr0n wrote:
Skoffs, I don't have VoDs of those matches or anything, there was two twitch streams(FrontlineGaming_TV and Warhammer chanell) streaming the event, but only one game, in round 2 included Necrons. And it was Baxter's Pylonstar list that tabled the War Convocation. Honestly, a brilliant game, Baxter is a great player.

Bummer,
I've been wanting to see a battle report of a Pylon-star match for a while now, but haven't run across any yet.

At least the top eight spots weren't all dominated by a single army... too bad none of our guys were make it that far, but congrats to the few who did manage a good showing.

Considering how few Necron players there are in general, for a Necron to make the Top8 there would have to be a combination of skill/luck/meta-listing/more luck.

On the one hand, it's nice to see a mix of armies on the top tables. On the other, it sucks that the meta is so brutal that other armies just have no shot at making it there in the first place.

Requizen wrote:
On the one hand, it's nice to see a mix of armies on the top tables. On the other, it sucks that the meta is so brutal that other armies just have no shot at making it there in the first place.

It's never been really different. Exept, big GT's now, instead of have 1-2-3 armies at the top tables now have more diversity. The meta is very diverse, there's a lot of lists that can reach top potential, it just so happens that Necrons isn't one of them. I'm happy with the way Meta is right now. I'm a little happy that Necrons are not top level, for the first time, since Matt Ward codex, because people have been salty playing versus Necrons, to the point where just playing Necrons was considered a dick move for some reason, even though it's my main army for a long, long time. There's a lot of lists that are really competitive, so if you want to compete in the highest of levels, you can definetely pick an army you like and go for it.Tournament winning usually involves not playing the same list, so just playing something different would be acceptable, I guess. However, there's also being #1 Necron, etc. which is a win and an honor on its own. Necrons, on the other hand are still not "weak". Outside of certain hardcore meta lists, they can compete. Besides that, I find the codex very interesting. It gives a lot of choices to build your necrons army in many ways and still be effective. Destroyers are good, Prets are good, Wraiths are good, Living Tomb formation is good, Flayed ones are good, Wraiths are good, Harvests are good, honestly you can make anything and do decently. We're not a -one list- army.

My biggest issue with the Necron codex and the Necron Decurion, specifically, is the Overlord requirement for both the Royal Court and the Reclamation Legion.If it somehow gets changed to being able to field ANY HQ instead of an overlord, it'd make Necron lists way more efficient. Our best shenanigans come from our named characters, our crypteks, our lords and artifacts. Most of the times I'm making a Decurion, the overlord feels like a huge tax. He's very hard to make use of, since he's a deep point investment with any wargear and he's not doing what he wants (combat) unless if you're also running a lychstar. In any lychstar, Overlords are also not required, since Obyron can do the job more effectively also rocking WS 6 and a 2+ save for less points than a naked Overlord with WS, VoD. If I'm not running a lychstar, I can't find any use for my Overlord from Rec.Legion. (or a points efficent one, that I like) I'd love it if it was possible for a Cryptek to drive my Legions into combat, both because I like them in-game more and because they're my favorite HQ's (and possibly favorite units, fluff-wise). In 5th edition I almost always played with full Courts, my favorite named character is Orikan and I've got a ton of them built and painted and waiting to be fielded!

The Rec.Legion overlord requirement and, especially, the Royal Court Overlord requirement, means that if you want to have a Decurion with any cryptek/lord whatsoever, you must at least have 2 Overlords. And I need Crypteks/Lords, but can't really use 2 overlords in any efficient way, which makes CAD almost the only choice if you want to field Crypteks/Lords. (exept if you can make use of the 1 overlord of the Court, like Pylonstar can use Anrakyr), in which case CAD+Royal Court will work too.

Decurion + CAD, however is way harder, because you have minimum two warrior units, 1 Immortal unit + 2 Troops and that's pretty heavy. Honestly, it'd be great if we could get an Allied Detachment of Necrons, but they're the damn same faction. So, my hands are really tied when it comes to list building and looking for a way to utilise my overlords. Latest invention of mine was giving my Rec.Legion OL a Staff of Light (free), a Veil of darkness and MSS (I had 10 points leftovers, and the 3D6 fear can help my unit survive one turn of assault, before i can teleport out of it with Veil) and putting him in an MSU unit of Immortals in a Nightscythe for Objective hunting, or something similar. But, I feel like it's too many points for an absolute gimmick of a unit with no real purpose or efficiency.

EDIT:
Here's the last list I'll share with you from this year's LVO.

Joseph Duca's "Standard Decurion/Renegade Knight" --------- Record: (L/W/L/W/W/W)


Which is a little odd, because it looks like his list is 1846 points, so he has room to include 1 Whip coil, but he chose not to. Then again, he did well with it! So, congrats!


EDIT 2: Edited all lists for better format and also noted their W/L record.


EDIT 3: All those new lists from the LVO inspired me to make a very weird list, that I'll play either this or the next week. If anybody wants to check it out or leave a comment it's here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/716863.page#9186014 .

Requizen wrote:
On the one hand, it's nice to see a mix of armies on the top tables. On the other, it sucks that the meta is so brutal that other armies just have no shot at making it there in the first place.

Without seeing the games its tough to say if it was poor skill, bad luck, ITC struggles, or a now outdated codex (probably a combination of all of those). It just doesn't seem promising when there's so few represented and the top 2 Necron players came in 38th place and 57th place.

With LVO over with, and based on how the Necron lists ended up being placed does this mean Pylon Star is no longer the way to go?

Is there something new we can put together that will get a higher placing in a major event now that people know how to deal with our new deathstar?

Draco765 wrote:
With LVO over with, and based on how the Necron lists ended up being placed does this mean Pylon Star is no longer the way to go?

Is there something new we can put together that will get a higher placing in a major event now that people know how to deal with our new deathstar?

Currently, it's the strongest list we can go by. It's a very good list versus most armies. It's surprisingly good versus Grav-bikes/centurion etc. It's REALLY good versus Full Companies, it's very good versus Scatbike/Warpspiders, it's good versus tau suits/stealthsuits/riptides possible/piranhas and it's also decent versus other lists like War Con etc. It's not an auto-win, by any means, I'm just saying if you play better, you'll probably win.

The only problem is there's a lot of demon/CSM players out there and a lot of people who are not demons/CSM and still use demons. Those people are trully impossible to win against with a Pylonstar. Doesn't matter if you're the better player or if it's the opponent's first game, this game is going to be an uphill battle. It's very rough to win, and because there's so many people playing those lists, it's very hard to get a "perfect" win ration in a tournament environment.(statistically, you're bound to play some demons, if you're going to play 6+ games) It's not like people "learnt" how to deal with our deathstar, it's merely that it's fallen out of meta because the new demons are taking a gak on it.

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That said, I'd like to ask people who've run Zahndrekh in their lists. How do you use Zahnrekh? What Traits do you like the most? What units do you think he benefits most? What do you like about him?

Allying in a Riptide Wing answers all of Necron's problems.

Allying in a Helldrake Terror pack is also viable.

col_impact wrote:
Allying in a Riptide Wing answers all of Necron's problems.

Allying in a Helldrake Terror pack is also viable.

"A good way to win is to just ally in top-tier units from a different codex"

Is this how Dark Eldar feel?

Necrons add a strong mobile primary core to an army. But an army based entirely on Necron stuff is lacking answers to new problems in the meta.

So if Daemons are a hard counter to Pylon-star, is there anything we can do that is a hard counter to Daemons? (Rock to their scissors... but another list might then be a paper to our rock).

 skoffs wrote:
So if Daemons are a hard counter to Pylon-star, is there anything we can do that is a hard counter to Daemons? (Rock to their scissors... but another list might then be a paper to our rock).

Ideally, you want access to skyfire, fleshbane, monster hunter, instant death, and template weapons/large blasts that get around (ITC) invisibility (which is shoot at BS 1)



Culexus doesn't work anymore since comes the apocalypse allies are not allowed in the ITC anymore.

Ork Tractor Guns work great against flying lists but are pretty much points wasted against lists with no flyers; at least it's dirt cheap.

Riptide Wing brings a resilient and versatile anti-tank and anti-infantry gun platform that you are going to equip with skyfire which is great against every list.

Helldrake Terror Pack is potent against flyers (DftS is not being used in the ITC) and infantry and cheaper than Riptide Wing; it's also got access to a Torrent weapon that gets around jink and invisibility.

Renegades can get you very potent anti-infantry and ok skyfire tanks and your own fearless horde.

Question:
How bad would a list consisting purely of Destroyer Cult detachments be?

 skoffs wrote:
Question:
How bad would a list consisting purely of Destroyer Cult detachments be?

It actually works pretty good. I definitely wish it were a core option of some kind though.