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 puma713 wrote:
SpikeyBits still reporting:

https://spikeybits.com/2017/08/whats-next-for-gws-62-5m-lawsuit.html

Apparently the guy won a case vs. Wizards of the Coast?

"At high level, is this called a "bathtub case". The kitchen sink wasn't big enough so the plaintiff through the bathtub at them."

And damn... why does that website always do nothing but lag out, spam me with ads or re-direct me to other pages randomly while trying to entertain myself with some of the articles?

the worst part is Rob Baer continuing to give voice to this guy. I'll make sure I unsub from anything Long War related as well as Spikey Bits.

Kdash wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
IF he won, just think what GW would do to us.
Price hikes, like never seen before!

They wouldn't even have time for that; chances are it would kill GW. Not just the costs but have to rebuild the entire franchise from the ground up. GW would likely be dead in the water.

We'd likely see a short term boost in sales to other miniature companies for a while; followed by a dwindling population of gamers. For better or worse GW is the gateway into miniature wargames for many people. It's got advertising and a highstreet market place that others just don't have at all. Heck mention GW to nearly anyone and they generally know what you mean (sometimes a little prompt that its miniatures/toys). Say Privateer Press or Mantic or heck even Reaper and most people won't have a clue even with hints.

Miniature wargames is a very niche hobby; we don't get adverts during sports games or on the TV; many urban areas only just manage to hold out one small shop and then its often shared with magic the gathering and multiple other games. Without GW I think the hobby would, in the long term, honestly suffer.





And of course that's without realising that the IP side of this legal challenge would kill most other fantasy games off as well. Pretty much anything with an orc or post-Lord of the Rings. Sci-fi games would also be seriously crippled. We might get lucky and all hold out for cuthulu (its at least copyright expired); but honestly if this ever seriously made it to court and was won then it would only harm the market.


The guy's written a long rant that mostly doesn't make any legal or normal sense. It's getting a bit of attention but give it a week or less and it will go away unless the guy pushing it has some deep pockets to keep it in the lime light (and honestly it sounds like if he's got 2 failed and one failing company and has to do resculpts to stay afloat - chances are he's not got those deep pockets).

I agree, if he did somehow win and got everything he is asking for, GW would fold and the games would die off. Why? Because he wants to take control of all the IP GW currently has in order to make it all public domain within 10 years. This, not only obviously affects GWs hold over the model creation, but suddenly the setting, lore and the games themselves. Suddenly anyone can create a new faction from nowhere with whatever rules they would want and create the models for them. People would be able to write, or re-write, new books and things would expand in a way that will truly diminish what we currently have, and what is being worked on.

Sure, it could also lead to a lot of cool things, especially in regards to movies etc, but the state of the game and the setting would no longer be controlled.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Note to add - As per their financial statement, the cost of "product and supply" for the year to May 2017 was one of their smallest expenses at £2.9 million.

That said, the running costs total £83 million for the year.

Oh absolutely, being public domain has just ruined Sherlock Holmes etc

This guy's a loon, and I'm not actively hoping for GW to die or anything, but this perception people have internalised that GW *is* the hobby and that us plebs can't be trusted with it is just...odd.

You know what happens to bad products based on public domain IP? Nobody buys in to them and they fade away into the ether, fated only to provide fodder for hard-up geeky clickbait websites that need a a new listicle. As for their role in hobby recruitment, eh, that might have been true 15+ years ago, but most of the "new blood" that I've met in recent years arrived via the internet and a few have never even been to a GW store. The stores used to provide for a combination of high-visibility advertising on high streets drawing new walk-in customers, and a place to "hook" folk who'd been drawn in via word of mouth(typically a peer or older sibling), then the company began "reforming" the stores; loads of them moved away to more isolated but cheaper locations, they reduced staff levels and opening hours, they limited play space and what games could be played on store tables etc, all impacted their ability to do either aforementioned job. Now the internet is a proper thing, they're even less important - social media means it's not just immediate peers or relations exposing people to wargaming, it's whole online social groups, and the internet allows you to find all the advice on collecting, modelling, painting, gaming etc you could ever need, places to buy product, and a way to locate other players all without once setting foot in a GW. Not to mention the American scene rather puts the lie to the idea a network of GW-brand stores are necessary or particularly effective at fuelling the hobby's growth, since most stores over there are independent and carry wide ranges.

In the 90's, GW did a lot for the hobby's spread. Maybe you could even successfully argue the combination of their physical stores and LotR license helped grow the community in the mid oughts. These days though? If they went away there would be a period of adjustment, some short-term fragmentation, but I highly doubt it would somehow be the end of sci-fantasy wargaming or even that it would ruin & destroy GW's own IPs.

Kdash wrote:

 puma713 wrote:
SpikeyBits still reporting:

https://spikeybits.com/2017/08/whats-next-for-gws-62-5m-lawsuit.html

Apparently the guy won a case vs. Wizards of the Coast?

"At high level, is this called a "bathtub case". The kitchen sink wasn't big enough so the plaintiff through the bathtub at them."

And damn... why does that website always do nothing but lag out, spam me with ads or re-direct me to other pages randomly while trying to entertain myself with some of the articles?

apparently the court contacted him and told him he did it wrong too so unless he follows up with a more err.. sane filing this will almsot certainly be dumped. course if this goes to court GW could always go after him for damages caused by his recasting.

So I asked a senior federal legal brain about this, linking the complaint.

He responded.

Oh dear God what hilarity! The plaintiff should get hit with sanctions from the court for frivolous litigation. The complaint is so facially defective; I find it very difficult to believe the plaintiff is an LLM. I’m not sure if this absurd complaint can give rise to a counterclaim for defamation, my hunch is no, but it would actually require research and, in the case of this hot garbage, might even prove worthwhile. The plaintiff sounds more than a little unhinged. Besides anything else, does he think he is a government? Individual citizens can’t and don’t have legal causes of action for alleged criminal acts of others. He might have a civil cause of action for contract breach and maybe, maybe tortious interference with his business(es), but he failed to state a claim upon which relief could be granted. A judge would dismiss this in a heartbeat (after privately laughing, a LOT, at it). What hubris… An LLM (in case you didn’t know that’s a PhD of law… one step up from the regular Juris Doctor degree) indeed, or so he alleged. I have never heard of a lawyer asserting their degree in anything, except for the very few specialties which require an LLM (such as high level tax law), this guy sounds like a total blowhard. That pleading was SO badly written that it made me think that no lawyer could really be that bad, again, it entirely screams for sanctions for frivolous litigation.

"David Moore is a 20 year watchdog of the table top industry, and is a Retired Disabled Veteran with an LLM in Law, and has won attribution previously against Wizards of the Coast."

20 year watchdog... I actually spit out my soda when I read that. I've thus far been unable to uncover any evidence of his multi-decade watchdog activities. I'm also unclear as to how being retired, disabled or a veteran is relevant. I imagine Rob B/David M are trying to appeal to some sort of misguided hero worship?

Also... he's known locally as "Reverend Magic". Below are some interesting details about his dealings with WotC.

https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Charity_Fellowship_posters

I am laughing so hard!

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/08/florida-man-sues-games-workshop-for-62m.html

read them all!

 Kriswall wrote:
"David Moore is a 20 year watchdog of the tinfoil hat industry, and is a Retired Nutcase with an LLM in his Alphabetti Spaghetti, and has won acclaim online for 'Nuttiest Law Suit Yet, 2017"

20 year watchdog... I actually spit out my soda when I read that. I've thus far been unable to uncover any evidence of his multi-decade watchdog activities. I'm also unclear as to how being retired, disabled or a veteran is relevant. I imagine Rob B/David M are trying to appeal to some sort of misguided hero worship?

Also... he's known locally as "Reverend Magic". Below are some interesting details about his dealings with WotC.

https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Charity_Fellowship_posters

Some polite amendments

1. Obvious clickbait by whoever posted it (spikeybitz).
2. The plea was written by a child who has no understanding of anything legal.
3. WTF.

No more clickz for spikey bitz Either make nice, useful videos like normal people do or don't post at all....

Really?

However cooky this may be, it's still interesting news. You're going to blame Spikeybits for reporting it?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Really?

However cooky this may be, it's still interesting news. You're going to blame Spikeybits for reporting it?

There are two ways to report this:

The accurate one: " A bunch of people who can't even write a subpoena have decided to sue GW for a ridiculous amount of money with zero actual basis and tons of childish bashing of their prior business partner".

The Spikey Bits one: "GW is being sued for $62 million Dolla".


One of them gives you the impression that something relevant is going on, the other reports the truth even if it's entirely uninteresting.

I heard they amending part of the complaint, Something about using the colors BLue, Yellow, and Red. Its not fair to Fans who like Rainbow Bright, and hence stealing even more IP from other creators!!

This was a good morning laugh.

morgoth wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Really?

However cooky this may be, it's still interesting news. You're going to blame Spikeybits for reporting it?

There are two ways to report this:

The accurate one: " A bunch of people who can't even write a subpoena have decided to sue GW for a ridiculous amount of money with zero actual basis and tons of childish bashing of their prior business partner".

The Spikey Bits one: "GW is being sued for $62 million Dolla".


One of them gives you the impression that something relevant is going on, the other reports the truth even if it's entirely uninteresting.

Spikey bits is the top form of click bate and must need that ad cash bad with how they push this

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Really?

However cooky this may be, it's still interesting news. You're going to blame Spikeybits for reporting it?

Spikeybits is the worst gaming related website on the Internet. Rob regularly makes up rumours to get attention. This is just another example of that. He is attempting to give this suit (which has not even been filed correctly) legitimacy it does not deserve.

Plus, it left me with the strong impression that he has just skimmed hastily across the documents before sitting down to record the video and, to me, seemed like reporting the whole thing on the go. It's not the kind of report I'd like on a topic like that...

Chikout wrote:
Spikeybits is the worst gaming related website on the Internet. Rob regularly makes up rumours to get attention. This is just another example of that. He is attempting to give this suit (which has not even been filed correctly) legitimacy it does not deserve.

A c'mon now. Taco Bell worked hard for that title. Don't grab it from them so hastily!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Chikout wrote:
Spikeybits is the worst gaming related website on the Internet. Rob regularly makes up rumours to get attention. This is just another example of that. He is attempting to give this suit (which has not even been filed correctly) legitimacy it does not deserve.

A c'mon now. Taco Bell worked hard for that title. Don't grab it from them so hastily!

At least Taco Bell lets you eat its product before the gak starts being sprayed.

Anyone who thinks this legal case has merit is probably too stupid to be entrusted with anything more sophisticated than a pre-peeled boiled egg.

Oh, and what do you know- it's Spikey Bits pushing it. If I had one turd and I had to choose between throwing it at OneMindSyndicate and Spikey Bits, I'd squeeze that turd in my fist and slap all of them about the face and neck for an afternoon.

Spikeybits has about as much credibility as a Bill Cosby cocktail and Casey Anthony's parenting advice.

I was genuinely interested until I read the OP. It's written like childish rubbish, an online rant not a serious legal claim. There's a few points that could be of merit but it's mostly just tosh.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I was genuinely interested until I read the OP. It's written like childish rubbish, an online rant not a serious legal claim. There's a few points that could be of merit but it's mostly just tosh.

It's certainly one or two logical missteps away from claiming that GW is the Illuminati and want to destroy the world. And where it's not, it's just someone being an assmad whiner because he's not selling product.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Anyone who thinks this legal case has merit is probably too stupid to be entrusted with anything more sophisticated than a pre-peeled boiled egg.

Oh, and what do you know- it's Spikey Bits pushing it. If I had one turd and I had to choose between throwing it at OneMindSyndicate and Spikey Bits, I'd squeeze that turd in my fist and slap all of them about the face and neck for an afternoon.

Spikeybits has about as much credibility as a Bill Cosby cocktail and Casey Anthony's parenting advice.

The end made me lol I love it the world needs more good trusted YouTube hobby people

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Really?

However cooky this may be, it's still interesting news. You're going to blame Spikeybits for reporting it?

100% - because of the way he chose to do so. He did not do any research, he did not contact anyone in the legal profession for an expert opinion, etc. Effectively he's decided to give voice to this because he has his own issues with GW - he has no editorial process and his bias is visible. He's not just reporting the news with this - he's giving this a platform.

What is Spikeybits beef with GW anyway?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
What is Spikeybits beef with GW anyway?

Didn't they get the brunt of GW's shouting when they came after fansites like Dakka?
No direct linking and no leaks to be posted, or some-such. It was around 3 years ago IIRC.

To be fair, I don't blame spikeybits for reporting on this news, its enough to grasp our attention so we are aware of what is currently going on. Games Workshop from what I'm aware hasn't already made a statement on this issue (send me a link if they have).

I feel like this point has already been brought up before but if this guy had two of his stores go down the drain then isn't it his fault for not diversifying among his products?
Don't stores make enough money alone from selling MTG, DnD, X-wing, Comic books, and other role-playing franchises?

Also, what's up with everyone being salty today?

To quote D Trump "FAKE NEWS".

I'm waiting to hear how it is all a hoax/bait and SpikeyBIts took it all. Hook, line and sinker.

While I did watch the video, I quit when I saw a line in the supposed doc that references GW's "EVIL" behavior. You don't ask a court to accept claims of evil and expect to not get sanctioned.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
What is Spikeybits beef with GW anyway?

Doc, the thing about this hobby is that it is best broken down like this: You have ten people in a room that are into 40k.

Three of them enjoy the game, the hobby, and are flat-out great people to play with.

Two of them are min/maxing powergamers that don't have any strategy at all, they just use deathstars and spam.

The other five are whining about the rules, the models, the other players, the armies other people play, and everything.

This hobby is 50% whining. That means at least half of the 'big names' that talk about this hobby are going to use their platform to piss and moan.

Yeah, there is an unnatural amount of hate being tossed this guys way.

GWs business practices have frequently been on the cut throat side of things.

The Chapter House case brought to light lots of interesting tidbits about Clueless GW was about the legality of their copywright and trademark legality was. Their business practices could be in equally gray territory.

I think we're much better off discussing the case/actions/implications rather than offering up our opinions on whichever person or website "broke" the story.