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I think with knights, people at least feel like they have a chance, because most lists bring some sort of heavy support. Maybe you will get some lucky rolls, he gets some unlucky saves, and you still manage to blow up a knight. And then you can play objectives with the rest of your army. Maybe you will still lose in the end, but its a maybe.

But say you are facing some 200 model horde army. Turns take forever, plus all your fancy toys you brought are doing nothing because they are killing cheap models (and there's another 199 more on the table). And he is winning the objective game to boot.

Ask me if I rather face an all knight army, or an all horde army, and I know what my answer will be.


Knights have some obvious weakness. They are super low model count, so its really hard for them to play objectives. IG on the other hand, was already good before the codex, and after the codex, they were super good. I struggle to see what weakness IG has. Their stuff are cheap in points, they can field hordes, they have CP coming out of their ears, they can play the objective game easily, and they can field super shooty stuff too, some of which don't even need line of sight, and their strategems, traits and such boosts all their strengths to further levels. They are mobile too (have you seen an infantry squad move under the orders of move move move? the distance is breathtaking).

So what's their weakness? Their fragility? Is a horde of infantry really that much more fragile than say a squad of terminators? A knight is gonna have a lot more trouble killing a bunch of 40 conscripts compared to a squad of terminators. And Bullgryn aren't fragile by any means either.

They have been hurt a lot by post-IG codex flood of things that can make 30" inch charges without breaking a sweat. Then when enemy surrounds 1 model and whole squad can't fall back IG has habit of simply kneeling down and dying.

Which is why you don't see IG dominating any more. IG as part of soup meanwhile is still very common.

Between Exalted Court, Cognis Stubbers, Ironhail stubbers, Heirlooms of the House Hold, and sally forth, I think Knights can spend the most CP before a battle even starts.

Not super useful, but it might be one way to screw over people who are trying to CP farm from you.

Ice_can wrote:

w1zard wrote:

Gitdakka wrote:

All those things are pretty hard to keep track of as the game has started. He got to use the shield strategem 3 times as he had kurovs aquilla and grand strategist the guard commanders, and after those three rounds the game was pretty much over.

I think he had an illegal list. Aren't you only allowed to take one warlord trait? Grand strategist is an AM warlord trait. Also Kurov's aquila is a relic and thus can only be taken once. Sounds like your opponent was cheating.

No you can only have 1 warlord unless your custodes.
However Imperial Knight's can pay CP to gice additional models a warlord trait.
To behonest the more you say about his list the more it sounds like he went all out tournament strength list vrs Black Templars, that wasn't exactly called for.

Aren't you firmly in the space marines are fine camp?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
They have been hurt a lot by post-IG codex flood of things that can make 30" inch charges without breaking a sweat. Then when enemy surrounds 1 model and whole squad can't fall back IG has habit of simply kneeling down and dying.

Which is why you don't see IG dominating any more. IG as part of soup meanwhile is still very common.

This is false at least here in America; IG are still winning GTs. But we play ITC not BRB.

 Marmatag wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

w1zard wrote:

Gitdakka wrote:

All those things are pretty hard to keep track of as the game has started. He got to use the shield strategem 3 times as he had kurovs aquilla and grand strategist the guard commanders, and after those three rounds the game was pretty much over.

I think he had an illegal list. Aren't you only allowed to take one warlord trait? Grand strategist is an AM warlord trait. Also Kurov's aquila is a relic and thus can only be taken once. Sounds like your opponent was cheating.

No you can only have 1 warlord unless your custodes.
However Imperial Knight's can pay CP to gice additional models a warlord trait.
To behonest the more you say about his list the more it sounds like he went all out tournament strength list vrs Black Templars, that wasn't exactly called for.

Aren't you firmly in the space marines are fine camp?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
They have been hurt a lot by post-IG codex flood of things that can make 30" inch charges without breaking a sweat. Then when enemy surrounds 1 model and whole squad can't fall back IG has habit of simply kneeling down and dying.

Which is why you don't see IG dominating any more. IG as part of soup meanwhile is still very common.

This is false at least here in America; IG are still winning GTs. But we play ITC not BRB.

Nope I've never been in that camp since CA , having multiple armies just means I don't have to keep trying to forcing marines to work.
Going from Marine gunline to tau is like playing on easy mode in comparison aslong as you can keep assualt units out. Or bait people into charging more than they should.
My marines might make it back to the table with my knights but solo they need all the FW help they can get.