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 Primark G wrote:
I see knights at best as a gate keeper army. They have some really bad matchups like dark eldar and Altioc. They are not fun for beer and pretzel games nor are interesting to watch in a video batrep. GW wrote an excellent codex for them though and that’s really what matters. As soon as IG CP farm gets the hit from the nerf bat they I don’t think they will be so amazing any more.

Except that CP farm has gone untouched since the IG codex dropped and even got a buff with the CP changes in the big FAQ.
I wouldn't be holding much hope for nerfs to allies or CP's any time soon.

Knight's are a hard match up for a lot of lists being high toughness reasonable save and invulnerable saves but they are small in number and hard counters already exsist people will adapt soon enough and they'll probably settle up as a good Teir 2 army potentially a part of new imperial soup flavour.

I have heard from a very reliable source IG CP farm is on deck for the nerf bat. You can keep playing them but I’d be experimenting with new lists that eschew them so you don’t get caught out totally flat footed. GW giveth and really taketh.

 Primark G wrote:
I see knights at best as a gate keeper army. They have some really bad matchups like dark eldar and Altioc. They are not fun for beer and pretzel games nor are interesting to watch in a video batrep. GW wrote an excellent codex for them though and that’s really what matters. As soon as IG CP farm gets the hit from the nerf bat they I don’t think they will be so amazing any more.

We'll see. I think a Knights list with a Catachan brigade is very strong.

 Primark G wrote:
I have heard from a very reliable source IG CP farm is on deck for the nerf bat. You can keep playing them but I’d be experimenting with new lists that eschew them so you don’t get caught out totally flat footed. GW giveth and really taketh.

I don't play IG so if the nerf bad finally comes for them it's just good news for me but maybe I'm just not used to working on GW response times. Also if it happens I expect much salt from IG players.

Salt donkey wrote:
Full disclosure: i play knights. I keep hearing the "just bring heavy weapons!" excuse, from people, but yet to see any army actually be successful against knights with that approach (aside from other knight lists). Examples include but are not limited to, triple max squads of obliterators lists, triple max squads of hiveguard lists, 9 dakkabots list, and triple plagueburst crawlers and bloat drone lists. All get crushed against a strong knight list. Maybe hordes can do it, since knights have a harder time killing a lot of stuff, but its still possible for them to do so. Dark elder might have had a shot, except helverins perfectly counter their vehicles. Eldar get crushed, as knights out fire-power and out durability them. If anyone has an actual list that has had success against knights I'd love to hear of it, because so far winning has been too easy with them.

My list:

Craftworld: Alaitoc battallion

HQ: Farseer skyrunner (Doom/Fortune)
HQ: Farseer skyrunner (Executioner/Mind war)
HQ: warlock (Jinx)
TR: 10 Rangers
TR: 10 Rangers
TR: 10 Rangers

FL: Hemlock Wraithfighter (enervate)

Harlequin silent shroud Patrol detachment
HQ: shadowseer (twilight pathway/shards of light)
HQ: shadowseer (mirror of minds/veil of tears)
TR: 10 Harlequins + 4x kiss
EL: deathjester
EL: Solitaire

drukhari prophets of flesh vanguard detachments
HQ: heamonoculus (Warlord) the vexator mask artefact & diabolical soothsayer warlord trait
El: 10 mandrakes
El: 10 mandrakes
El: 10 mandrakes

- Doom + rangers and mandrakes shooting,
- The amount of psychic mortal wounds,
- dropping leadership and casting mind war on character knight,
- The amount of -1 to hit modifiers,

I think I do well against knights..

meleti wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
You just beat them on objectives. You don't need to kill them. Their shooting is actually awful for their cost.

Yeah, I’m not seeing how Knight Castellans and Armiger Helverins have awful shooting for their cost.

Depends on what you are shooting. Castellan is very good against stuff like shadowsword but sucks against infantry. Actually knights have nothing even remotely efficient way to deal with hordes so orks can pretty much win by default by objectives without even attempting to kill them. And indeed should avoid that as they need to make sure they are NOT in close combat ie fall back and dont' charge. Crusader is their most efficient horde clearer and even that will kill like ~100 pts of ork boyz a turn IF they are in combat. They don't get first turn charge ever so you are looking at 4-5 turns like that max.

And knights don't load up all on crusaders. Rest are killing even less. Oh and 1-3 turns will be spent fighting often enough grots which are even less efficient to kill.

Doubtful tyranids are lacking in tools of doing similar except they can also kill or damage them. Even if you don't kill knights get them on worse wound bracket and their power drops a lot. Remember any wound bracket drop/death hurts knights lot more than say IG vehicle, eldar vehicle etc.

The problem is that many Knight list aren't well optimized yet,whereas their opposition is. I just can't imagine dark eldar being that much of problem, when helverins are averaging 7.11 wounds against ravagers without the re-roll stratagem (meaning 3 will kill 2 non-black heart ravagers in a single turn of shooting, and almost kill 2 said black heart ravagers without any stratagem help.) Throw in a raven stratagem buffed Castellan into the mix, and their wont be very many dark eldar vehicles alive after turn 1. Dark eldar can't even hide that effectively, as 14 +d6 movement can ensure that the helverins always have pretty good firing positions. Additionally Knights out range most of eldar's shenanigans making them one of the only factions able to out position the space elves. I can go on further, but eldar definitely don't have an easy time with knights.

Salt donkey wrote:
The problem is that many Knight list aren't well optimized yet,whereas their opposition is. I just can't imagine dark eldar being that much of problem, when helverins are averaging 7.11 wounds against ravagers without the re-roll stratagem (meaning 3 will kill 2 non-black heart ravagers in a single turn of shooting, and almost kill 2 said black heart ravagers without any stratagem help.) Throw in a raven stratagem buffed Castellan into the mix, and their wont be very many dark eldar vehicles alive after turn 1. Dark eldar can't even hide that effectively, as 14 +d6 movement can ensure that the helverins always have pretty good firing positions. Additionally Knights out range dark eldar, making them one of the only factions able to out position the space elves. I can go on further, but eldar definitely don't have an easy time with knights.

I just got floored by dark eldars. They are very resilient for the costs, have bazillion shots and rerolls by bucketloads, fast moving S5 bikers that actually pose a threat to knight in cc and can actually tie them in h2h. Disintegrators by bucketloads and in multiple sources so rotate ion shield is fairly useless. Mortal wounds, blasters everywhere.

Oh and raven strategem buffed castellan...You do know they have negate strategem on 2+ by default basically? If you count on that strategem to help castellan you are crazy.

Oh and dark eldar can hide those ravagers in deep strike so they will ALWAYS get to shoot you first if they want on turn 1.

And yes knights have longer range. Bohoo. Too bad for knights tables are played on 6'x4' with 24" between DZ's and dark eldar speed+range makes them MORE than sufficient range to reach anywhere they want. Say that when games are played on 12'x8' with 12" from table edges for DZ's.

Wait, knights are op? Wut? When did this happen? I thought they were mid-high teir at best? I honestly havnt seen a single one in any recent tournaments?

 lolman1c wrote:
Wait, knights are op? Wut? When did this happen? I thought they were mid-high teir at best? I honestly havnt seen a single one in any recent tournaments?

Well there were few in recent big tournament top-8's but several were allies to other imperial soup. Lone raven castellan for example is potential replacement for shadowsword being awesome tank buster(can blow repulsor and leman russ at the same time without even carapace weapons or meltas) that can duel with opponent shadowsword giving them first shot and still kick the crap out of them. Or do what I did yesterday on the 1 turn it got to shoot at full effect(one turn hampered by strategem negated and dices, 3rd by being on last wound bracket, then it died). One turn, take 2 ravagers, 1 cronos(I think. big h2h monsters), venom in one turn. More expensive but tougher platform as well.

But full on knight army? Don't expect them to dominate tournaments. They are better in one off games but there's many hard counters which will ruin their chances of getting 5-0 with 17-20 pts per round.

Just like all the Custodes lists have Guard, all the Knights lists are going to have their own chaff (Guard/AdMech).

meleti wrote:
Just like all the Custodes lists have Guard, all the Knights lists are going to have their own chaff (Guard/AdMech).

At which point its more imperial soup, a slightly different flavour but still soup.
Is IG plus custodes plus knights, a Knight list, a Custodes list, a guard list or a soup liat?

Pure knights are viable and got a solid codex but arn't going to be top table at events.

Ice_can wrote:

meleti wrote:
Just like all the Custodes lists have Guard, all the Knights lists are going to have their own chaff (Guard/AdMech).

At which point its more imperial soup, a slightly different flavour but still soup.
Is IG plus custodes plus knights, a Knight list, a Custodes list, a guard list or a soup liat?

Pure knights are viable and got a solid codex but arn't going to be top table at events.

Meh, I honestly see soup as a problem but wish it wasn't. I don't take it but I always like the idea of doing big games where every part of the imperium is involved. The IG being the fodder for marines who command the battle as a knight comes in for back up because the inquisitor in the back has a secret about his family and threatened to tell everyone. 40k really needs a lot more risk vs reward... most armies get too reward while the others get rto much risk... knights as soup I can see having the reward of all the bonuses thrown on the table from the other factions getting their strats and trates (they can't share them but they sure can work well together). But we could have an entire edebate (and have) on that subject alone.

Haha, a lot of the soup would probably collapse over night if they limited CP to the faction that created them. Like if you have blood angels and IG then only the cp Ig make can only be spent on IG... people would have a heart attack if this happens. XD

meleti wrote:
Just like all the Custodes lists have Guard, all the Knights lists are going to have their own chaff (Guard/AdMech).

At which point is the problem knights or soup? Are knights broken if there's 1 knight in imperial soup? And certainly you can forget "no army can deal with 4-5 knights" complains then. You'll be dealing with 1.

tneva82 wrote:

Salt donkey wrote:
The problem is that many Knight list aren't well optimized yet,whereas their opposition is. I just can't imagine dark eldar being that much of problem, when helverins are averaging 7.11 wounds against ravagers without the re-roll stratagem (meaning 3 will kill 2 non-black heart ravagers in a single turn of shooting, and almost kill 2 said black heart ravagers without any stratagem help.) Throw in a raven stratagem buffed Castellan into the mix, and their wont be very many dark eldar vehicles alive after turn 1. Dark eldar can't even hide that effectively, as 14 +d6 movement can ensure that the helverins always have pretty good firing positions. Additionally Knights out range dark eldar, making them one of the only factions able to out position the space elves. I can go on further, but eldar definitely don't have an easy time with knights.

I just got floored by dark eldars. They are very resilient for the costs, have bazillion shots and rerolls by bucketloads, fast moving S5 bikers that actually pose a threat to knight in cc and can actually tie them in h2h. Disintegrators by bucketloads and in multiple sources so rotate ion shield is fairly useless. Mortal wounds, blasters everywhere.

Oh and raven strategem buffed castellan...You do know they have negate strategem on 2+ by default basically? If you count on that strategem to help castellan you are crazy.

Oh and dark eldar can hide those ravagers in deep strike so they will ALWAYS get to shoot you first if they want on turn 1.

And yes knights have longer range. Bohoo. Too bad for knights tables are played on 6'x4' with 24" between DZ's and dark eldar speed+range makes them MORE than sufficient range to reach anywhere they want. Say that when games are played on 12'x8' with 12" from table edges for DZ's.

Yeah dark eldar are strong, strongest they've ever been fact (I dusted off them from playing them back in 5th). First no where have I seen you mention playing helverins, which in the unit you need in this matchup. Second its not the end of the world if they hide their ravengers, that just means you're shooting something else. You absolutely don't need the raven stratagem do heavy damage with the Big C, it just turns its fantastic firepower into bonkers amazing.Third, while you are right that high range wont protect your knights forever, it should at least mitigate their turn 1 shooting, as they will have deepstrike in their deployment zone with their ravengers. Finally how are reaver jetbikes threatening beyond their weak mortal wound output? Their main use is to tie something up turn 1 , not their damage output. Heck most the time people opt for +2 move drug on them, not the +1 S one (come to think of it, it sounds like you're talking about hellions as reaver's can only get to S5 via an expensive stratagem or an obsession which isn't the one that allows you to charge after advancing). You are right in that dark eldar's main strength is their high durability and damage output for their cost, but Knights do this better.Run at least 3 helverin next time you play them, and then come back and tell me this an unwinnable match up

tneva82 wrote:

meleti wrote:
Just like all the Custodes lists have Guard, all the Knights lists are going to have their own chaff (Guard/AdMech).

At which point is the problem knights or soup? Are knights broken if there's 1 knight in imperial soup?

Neither? It's just a list.

tneva82 wrote:
You'll be dealing with 1.

Well, more likely 3-4 Knights depending on the particular list. Most Knights/Guard lists will be a Knights Super-Heavy detachment so 3 Knights, and then a Guard brigade or a Guard battalion and some other detachment like another Guard battalion or a Blood Angels battalion.

Salt donkey wrote:

Yeah dark eldar are strong, strongest they've ever been fact (I dusted off them from playing them back in 5th). First no where have I seen you mention playing helverins, which in the unit you need in this matchup. Second its not the end of the world if they hide their ravengers, that just means you're shooting something else. You absolutely don't need the raven stratagem do heavy damage with the Big C, it just turns its fantastic firepower into bonkers amazing.Third, while you are right that high range wont protect your knights forever, it should at least mitigate their turn 1 shooting, as they will have deepstrike in their deployment zone with their ravengers. Finally how are reaver jetbikes threatening beyond their weak mortal wound output? Their main use is to tie something up turn 1 , not their damage output. Heck most the time people opt for +2 move drug on them, not the +1 S one (come to think of it, it sounds like you're talking about hellions as reaver's can only get to S5 via an expensive stratagem or an obsession which isn't the one that allows you to charge after advancing). You are right in that dark eldar's main strength is their high durability and damage output for their cost, but Knights do this better.Run at least 3 helverin next time you play them, and then come back and tell me this an unwinnable match up

Well then you either missed or how many you think they are spammed? I fielded 2 yesterday. How many you think TAC knights will have? They aren't free so for TAC list so castellan+2 questor=alone 1400. You strugle to add more than 3(I had castellan, crusader, errant, warglaive and 2 helverins so best I could do would be 3 helverins). Tooling up against by specifically tailoring with helverins against DE is stupid. Unless you know tournament is filled with DE you don't tailor against 1 army and frankly list tailoring doesn't show anything about balance since anything can be countered by list tailoring. Oh and the warglaive was blown apart T1 so even if it had been 3rd helverin would have been irrelevant.

And yes castellan can do damage without strategem. Killed 1 ravager without it. Whopedoo. It costs 600 pts.

Dark eldars reach you in turn 1 so not much range they have...

Reavers have a) blasters b) mortal wounds c) big pile of S5 attacks(wounding on 5+) rerolling to hit's and to wounds of 1's. That pile up. Couple that inability to leave combat for knight to utilize shooting and surprisingly resilient as well. And yes I'm talking about reavers. Those guys on bikes. Wish they WERE helions as I could leave combat and shoot at them.

And when dark eldars can take out like 20% of your army in one go(warglaive so 1/6 knights there alone and big pile of wounds to crusader) you aren't that tough. Also knights don't roll that many dices so there's bound to be whiffed rounds of shooting which really hurts. Dark eldar meanwhile with all the big pile of dices don't NEED to worry about luck.

Oh and PLEASE next time don't make assumptions like I didn't use helverins without knowing better. Your comments might actually appear little bit more credible that way. Now they are worthless. Doesn't help when you assume I mistook reavers for hellions WHEN I SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED BLOCKING THE KNIGHTS IN CLOSE COMBAT AS TO WHY THE BIKES WERE A PROBLEM! Which hellions, being infantry, can't do. Reavers can. They are bikes. Can't fall back over them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

meleti wrote:

Well, more likely 3-4 Knights depending on the particular list. Most Knights/Guard lists will be a Knights Super-Heavy detachment so 3 Knights, and then a Guard brigade or a Guard battalion and some other detachment like another Guard battalion or a Blood Angels battalion.

3-4 knights unless we are talking questor+2 armigers aren't bringing guard and guard or blood angels. Especially if they are fielding castellan which seems to be point of complain. At least not here with 2k tournaments. Maybe you play 2.5k tournaments.

3-4 knights unless we are talking questor+2 armigers aren't bringing guard and guard or blood angels. Especially if they are fielding castellan which seems to be point of complain. At least not here with 2k tournaments. Maybe you play 2.5k tournaments.

in 2000 points you can fit all kinds of stuff. 2 Armigers and a Dominus is well under 1000 points. That's more than enough for a full Guard brigade. And if you take less Guard, you can take more of other things like additional Knights or additional battalions.

tneva82 wrote:

Salt donkey wrote:

Yeah dark eldar are strong, strongest they've ever been fact (I dusted off them from playing them back in 5th). First no where have I seen you mention playing helverins, which in the unit you need in this matchup. Second its not the end of the world if they hide their ravengers, that just means you're shooting something else. You absolutely don't need the raven stratagem do heavy damage with the Big C, it just turns its fantastic firepower into bonkers amazing.Third, while you are right that high range wont protect your knights forever, it should at least mitigate their turn 1 shooting, as they will have deepstrike in their deployment zone with their ravengers. Finally how are reaver jetbikes threatening beyond their weak mortal wound output? Their main use is to tie something up turn 1 , not their damage output. Heck most the time people opt for +2 move drug on them, not the +1 S one (come to think of it, it sounds like you're talking about hellions as reaver's can only get to S5 via an expensive stratagem or an obsession which isn't the one that allows you to charge after advancing). You are right in that dark eldar's main strength is their high durability and damage output for their cost, but Knights do this better.Run at least 3 helverin next time you play them, and then come back and tell me this an unwinnable match up

Well then you either missed or how many you think they are spammed? I fielded 2 yesterday. How many you think TAC knights will have? They aren't free so for TAC list so castellan+2 questor=alone 1400. You strugle to add more than 3(I had castellan, crusader, errant, warglaive and 2 helverins so best I could do would be 3 helverins). Tooling up against by specifically tailoring with helverins against DE is stupid. Unless you know tournament is filled with DE you don't tailor against 1 army and frankly list tailoring doesn't show anything about balance since anything can be countered by list tailoring. Oh and the warglaive was blown apart T1 so even if it had been 3rd helverin would have been irrelevant.

And yes castellan can do damage without strategem. Killed 1 ravager without it. Whopedoo. It costs 600 pts.

Dark eldars reach you in turn 1 so not much range they have...

Reavers have a) blasters b) mortal wounds c) big pile of S5 attacks(wounding on 5+) rerolling to hit's and to wounds of 1's. That pile up. Couple that inability to leave combat for knight to utilize shooting and surprisingly resilient as well. And yes I'm talking about reavers. Those guys on bikes. Wish they WERE helions as I could leave combat and shoot at them.

And when dark eldars can take out like 20% of your army in one go(warglaive so 1/6 knights there alone and big pile of wounds to crusader) you aren't that tough. Also knights don't roll that many dices so there's bound to be whiffed rounds of shooting which really hurts. Dark eldar meanwhile with all the big pile of dices don't NEED to worry about luck.

Oh and PLEASE next time don't make assumptions like I didn't use helverins without knowing better. Your comments might actually appear little bit more credible that way. Now they are worthless. Doesn't help when you assume I mistook reavers for hellions WHEN I SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED BLOCKING THE KNIGHTS IN CLOSE COMBAT AS TO WHY THE BIKES WERE A PROBLEM! Which hellions, being infantry, can't do. Reavers can. They are bikes. Can't fall back over them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

meleti wrote:

Well, more likely 3-4 Knights depending on the particular list. Most Knights/Guard lists will be a Knights Super-Heavy detachment so 3 Knights, and then a Guard brigade or a Guard battalion and some other detachment like another Guard battalion or a Blood Angels battalion.

3-4 knights unless we are talking questor+2 armigers aren't bringing guard and guard or blood angels. Especially if they are fielding castellan which seems to be point of complain. At least not here with 2k tournaments. Maybe you play 2.5k tournaments.

Ok good glad you where using the helverins (sorry for assuming). Sounds like your opponent was misinterpreting some rules as hellions and reavers have no ability to stop you from falling back (wychs do but that only works against infantry). Did they surround your knights? (also seems odd considering reaver squads max at 9 models, meaning your stomps should remove likely enough to escape.) The reason I assumed they where hellions and not reavers is reavers are only base S 3, meaning they would need a drug + something weird to get them to S5 (they do have bladevanes which is S 4 in melee,but that can't be buffed in any way beyond that.) Finally Reavers have no way to re-roll 1's to wound, so I would double check what your opponent was telling you because it sounds fishy at best to me.

Yeah. Some thing is odd about those bikes. They aren't S5 they are S4 and you can't change it. Toughness 5 easy maybe even 6 if he is willing to spend points to over dose.

They can only re-roll 1s to hit if their is a Sucubus near by. They can't reroll wounds.

Isn't there a Wych Cult that gives +1S?
So drugs + obsession = S5.

Headlss wrote:
Yeah. Some thing is odd about those bikes. They aren't S5 they are S4 and you can't change it. Toughness 5 easy maybe even 6 if he is willing to spend points to over dose.

They can only re-roll 1s to hit if their is a Sucubus near by. They can't reroll wounds.

It sounds like they have added the +1 strength to the weapon profile not the models profile.

A Warden with no carapace is 412pts, and with shooting+CC it can kill 17 GEQ a turn. It's not bleeding edge, but I do think knights can respond to chaff pretty well. Against an ALL chaff list ... not so much.

Generally, I agree with the sentiment that Knights have a very powerful codex that's going to impact the game in a big way.

Sounds like your opponent is misplaying reaver jetbikes and maybe dark eldar in general, they are base strength 3 so can become S5 if the have +1S drug and +1S obsession, but loose -1 ap adn the ability to advance auto 8 inches and still charge, as someone else posted its only wyches and succubus which have the ability to "trap" you in combat based on a roll off that only works vs infantry (yes jetbikes can surround you and you cant retreat over them, but you should be able to stomp them to death or clear a way to retreat), re-rolling 1's to hits if theres a succubus nearby but no ways to re-roll wounds, the mortal wounds only happen on a 4+ when charging and only 1 in 3 can take one, and 1 and 3 can take blasters. Yes reavers are strong but they excel at clogging up targets turn 1 to stop heavy losses as the rest of the army moves up the board not deleting superheavy units 3 times there cost

aldo1234 wrote:
Sounds like your opponent is misplaying reaver jetbikes and maybe dark eldar in general, they are base strength 3 so can become S5 if the have +1S drug and +1S obsession, but loose -1 ap adn the ability to advance auto 8 inches and still charge, as someone else posted its only wyches and succubus which have the ability to "trap" you in combat based on a roll off that only works vs infantry (yes jetbikes can surround you and you cant retreat over them, but you should be able to stomp them to death or clear a way to retreat), re-rolling 1's to hits if theres a succubus nearby but no ways to re-roll wounds, the mortal wounds only happen on a 4+ when charging and only 1 in 3 can take one, and 1 and 3 can take blasters. Yes reavers are strong but they excel at clogging up targets turn 1 to stop heavy losses as the rest of the army moves up the board not deleting superheavy units 3 times there cost

He surrounded the knight. And I tried to stomp. But apart from them being surprisingly resilient with saves, 6+++ and multiple wounds then of course you get hit by degrading stats.

Oh and you don't need advance and charge automatically. Those things are fast enough and it's not like he was going for 1st turn charge(which would be bad idea anyway). Actually I did the initial charge but thanks to already being degraded they didn't lose that much. Hitting on 5+ sucks 12 attacks or not. Them having save and 6+++ makes it even more annoying. Having finished off crusader the errant then wasn't too far to charge(I tried to charge them first but -2" to charge prevented it).

And no they don't do alone. Sheesh. THEY DON'T NEED TO! You shoot the knight with something. Then they lock it place, cause some more wounds and can finish wounded knight. Meanwhile knight is left trying to clear annoyingly resilient knights without best weapons(guns).

You are talking theory. I saw it used in real game. You assume 1 unit has to automatically delete unit to take it out. But you know what? You generally need more points than target to destroy in one go. 2-3 times is OK amount. If you think I expect 1/3 point unit to destroy enemy unit in one go you are mistaken. That's about as stupid claim as "castellan kills only 400 pts unit in one round. It sucks". Killing 2/3 worth of it is huge as it is. Reavers don't have to kill it in one go to be annoyance. Especially as knights don't take on casualties or even degrading well losing lot more of their power per degraded model than say IG.

tneva82 wrote:

aldo1234 wrote:
Sounds like your opponent is misplaying reaver jetbikes and maybe dark eldar in general, they are base strength 3 so can become S5 if the have +1S drug and +1S obsession, but loose -1 ap adn the ability to advance auto 8 inches and still charge, as someone else posted its only wyches and succubus which have the ability to "trap" you in combat based on a roll off that only works vs infantry (yes jetbikes can surround you and you cant retreat over them, but you should be able to stomp them to death or clear a way to retreat), re-rolling 1's to hits if theres a succubus nearby but no ways to re-roll wounds, the mortal wounds only happen on a 4+ when charging and only 1 in 3 can take one, and 1 and 3 can take blasters. Yes reavers are strong but they excel at clogging up targets turn 1 to stop heavy losses as the rest of the army moves up the board not deleting superheavy units 3 times there cost

He surrounded the knight. And I tried to stomp. But apart from them being surprisingly resilient with saves, 6+++ and multiple wounds then of course you get hit by degrading stats.

Oh and you don't need advance and charge automatically. Those things are fast enough and it's not like he was going for 1st turn charge(which would be bad idea anyway). Actually I did the initial charge but thanks to already being degraded they didn't lose that much. Hitting on 5+ sucks 12 attacks or not. Them having save and 6+++ makes it even more annoying. Having finished off crusader the errant then wasn't too far to charge(I tried to charge them first but -2" to charge prevented it).

And no they don't do alone. Sheesh. THEY DON'T NEED TO! You shoot the knight with something. Then they lock it place, cause some more wounds and can finish wounded knight. Meanwhile knight is left trying to clear annoyingly resilient knights without best weapons(guns).

You are talking theory. I saw it used in real game. You assume 1 unit has to automatically delete unit to take it out. But you know what? You generally need more points than target to destroy in one go. 2-3 times is OK amount. If you think I expect 1/3 point unit to destroy enemy unit in one go you are mistaken. That's about as stupid claim as "castellan kills only 400 pts unit in one round. It sucks". Killing 2/3 worth of it is huge as it is. Reavers don't have to kill it in one go to be annoyance. Especially as knights don't take on casualties or even degrading well losing lot more of their power per degraded model than say IG.

Yes i am talking theory, but theory based on if you and your opponent played the rules correctly and that everything was statistically average (yes games never work out at average but its the easiest way to looking at whats good and whats not). First you stated that they did mortal wounds to you, how exactly? Did they advance over you in which case its a 1 in 6 chance for a mortal wound for each that physically passes over it but means no charges later and -1 to hit with blasters. Or they charged and could do a max of 4 mortal wounds from a unit of 12, but you have said you charged so it potentially is the first one then. Next question is how did you get -2 to charges? nothing i know of in the dark eldar codex gives -2 to charges. in your first combat

it might seem like a personal attack on you but i honestly would like a detailed report of what happened so we can look at ways to improve
or counters for dark eldar and give hopefully good advice. So having as much information as you can supply would be good. I think crusaders with endless fury are good vs dark eldar because its on unmodified 6's you get extra hits plus its good S, AP and D vs dark eldar. however i think the player you were against was misplaying dark eldar (either by accident or to gain an advantage) so question everything he says, ask to see his book if something sounds too good to be true

Pretty sure Guard cop flack as there the Anti-fun army, I cannot remember last time I played against guard and it was not a tedious chore. Hell even watching a guard matchup battle report is depressing.

This is backed up by them having been the top tier index that then got buffed when most armies were taking NERF bats to the face.

Then they got some nerfs and still retained top spot more or less. Oh and the fact the fethers are everywhere as CP batterys.

Plus I think a lot of people still blame 5th ed guard for the start of the cancer that is flyers.

So as you can see there are any number of reasons why guard are disliked.

Knights are strong enough to gate-keep the old anti horde armies so prevalent 3 months ago.

Look at these lists from Adepticon a just a short 3 months ago. And then consider if they ran into a simple knight list, like a Castellan, Crusader, Warden, and 2x Helverins.

https://spikeybits.com/2018/03/40k-adepticon-championship-top-16-lists-revealed.html

Many of these lists flip from game play to mission wins. Correct mission pops, they win, The other missions pop, the knights win.

Because Knights aren't as strong as Guard. Imperial Guard is still a top tier army.