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The price change is unfortunate. The models are on the higher end of the price range, given the IP's they are carrying. I understand the hesitation to purchase.

Personally, I am willing to pay. The scupts are quality. The IP's are worth it. The game is high quality. And a player doesn't need a large army to get into the game.

By the way, the full Batmobile was spoiled today.

Ok, that this is beautiful! Now we just need to see the price...

@Wrathiwing: where are you getting them for £9.50 a pop? Cheapest I can ever find is about £10.50.

Well, it would be nice if Knight Models was forthright about the price increase.

Blaming it on material costs is frankly absurd, unless there was some massive price hike in plastic blisters and printed cards...

Tin is a commodity. Anybody can go online and look at the price of Tin today. Pewter is at least 90% Tin. So the price of Tin has a very direct impact on Tin-based alloys.

Anyhoo, the prices aren't absurd as they are. The sets are pretty reasonably priced compared to other skirmish wargames on the market, and $15 for a single is not atypical in the market.

But that pricing has naught to do with material costs. It has to do with volume and development costs. Skirmish games with lots of character models are more expensive to make because you can't cut as many corners on sculpting. Sales volumes for models are lower because you don't need 10 Frank Miller Batman models. You only need one. And customers are happy to pay $100 to play a table top wargame.

I expect that Knight Models does not want to say that they are increasing prices because sales volume has been less than projected.

KM minis are very hit or miss. Even the good ones have such shallow detail that you end up having to freehand it on anyways. I guess it's all personal opinion, but I just don't see how anyone can objective make a blanket statement that all KM models are gorgeous pieces of art.

Wraithwing wrote:
KM's miniatures are stunning, and worth every penny.

Yes and no. They are definitely good looking miniatures, however the sculpting/casting does need a bit of improvement. Not a lot but it does need a bit. Currently Infinity has better looking miniatures in terms of detail and quality of the miniatures so I know KM can improve. Some of the details are washed out because the details aren't as exaggerated or deep enough, requiring a good painter to really pull the details out. They are getting a bit better, newer stuff has been better than original stuff.

Nightwing, Red Hood, Talia are examples that they are good. However the detail isn't as defined as Infinity. A good painter can make them good though, but amateur painters will have more trouble making those details pop unlike when painting Infinity miniatures.

Honestly what hurts Knight Models is the retail market. In the US in my area, the only place to really order is direct from them or a couple online places that might have them in. That makes it hard to promote the game. I want to promote it at a local level, but I won't promote games where retailers can't readily get product.

Have to agree with Dark Severence. The sculpts are nice but they do need to improve the quality and casting. Shallow details, large blobs of flash, and poor fits I find are common in the KM range. I expected a bit better especially for the price we pay.

Yeah, i can live with flash and not great fits, but give me some raised detail for chrissakes. Way too many logos and design need to be freehanded, all this gak I'm freehanding is what makes these donkey-caves $20 Penguin goons different than normal goons!

To take some of the sting off, Miniature Market occasionally misprices Batman sets, got Bane starter for 25, and Two-face starter for an absurd $16! Right now they have a 4 pack of Blackgate Prisoners II for 16 bucks, MSRP 38, normal price $30.

What I don't understand, is that unless you're playing in tournaments, why not just use Heroclix or any of the other gazillion other options. I think the models are nice enough, I am just too broke to buy in... or.. I guess broke enough that I'd rather pay $20 for a whole collection of Clix and save the other money that would've been spent on terrain and stuff? I'm not saying everyone should do this. The models are fantastic and if/when I can afford them, I'll switch over.. I'm more saying, people are acting like there's no other options..

Heroclix are about the only real option, and even then, there are plenty of people for whom the minis are important enough that they just aren't good enough. I will use Heroclix for characters without models if I have to, preferably with a repaint, but comparing the two as anything other than game pieces is not favourable.

Heroclix also seem to be somewhat harder to get in the UK than the US without buying blind.

The other issue is that for the henchmen HC don't really cover it as far as I know, and there's a very limited range of models in 35mm rather than 28mm scale.

 Paradigm wrote:
Heroclix are about the only real option, and even then, there are plenty of people for whom the minis are important enough that they just aren't good enough. I will use Heroclix for characters without models if I have to, preferably with a repaint, but comparing the two as anything other than game pieces is not favourable.

Heroclix also seem to be somewhat harder to get in the UK than the US without buying blind.

The other issue is that for the henchmen HC don't really cover it as far as I know, and there's a very limited range of models in 35mm rather than 28mm scale.

The HC are definitely more 28-32mm (I've seen it described as WTF scale because it is not consistent).
There's a fantastic video on stripping HC figures by Jay Aden. If you follow it to the letter the paint comes off in a minute or two.
Henchmen there's options. Generic goons there are a few of in HC. Otherwise, you can actually just grab some WGF survivors, Mad Robot, Puppetswar, Maxmini, Werewoolf, and others. It takes some imagination and research but I've got a huge assortment built up. The bright side of that, is that it also opens you up to other things. Old Crow for example, has an APC that looks a LOT like the APC from the chase missions in the AK video game. Reaper has a cool model that with some wires/tubes from Dragonforge looks like Titan-Bane (there's even a head at Mad Robot that completes the look). I mostly look to HC for the specific characters and civillians, though I have used it for thugs and goons. I've got a lot going on but I'll try to get a P&M blog going to show some of the options I'm talking about.

EDIT: As to the singles being harder to get in the UK. I'm sorry. That puts a lot of the plan on hold. Check out Miniature Market. It's a US company but you can get free postage with a big order :/

 MLaw wrote:
Otherwise, you can actually just grab some WGF survivors, Mad Robot, Puppetswar, Maxmini, Werewoolf, and others. It takes some imagination and research but I've got a huge assortment built up.

It works to an extent. I use a handful of WGF survivors as cops just until I buy the real ones, and there is a pretty noticeable difference in size. It's fine across the table, but when they end up in base contact with models that are twice their mass it looks a bit off.

I agree it's an option, and depending on what gets released for the Scarecrow Arkham militia there's a few minis from Puppetswar I'm eyeing up, but using 28mm minis alongside 35mm ones is outside some people's aesthetic tolerance.

Not that KM's scale consistency is any better (looking at you, Ra's Al Neeson and DKR Bane)

 Paradigm wrote:

 MLaw wrote:
Otherwise, you can actually just grab some WGF survivors, Mad Robot, Puppetswar, Maxmini, Werewoolf, and others. It takes some imagination and research but I've got a huge assortment built up.

It works to an extent. I use a handful of WGF survivors as cops just until I buy the real ones, and there is a pretty noticeable difference in size. It's fine across the table, but when they end up in base contact with models that are twice their mass it looks a bit off.

I agree it's an option, and depending on what gets released for the Scarecrow Arkham militia there's a few minis from Puppetswar I'm eyeing up, but using 28mm minis alongside 35mm ones is outside some people's aesthetic tolerance.

Not that KM's scale consistency is any better (looking at you, Ra's Al Neeson and DKR Bane)

lol, yeah. I have heard/read about the scale issues.
For us it's not an issue because it's me and my kids. I live in the middle of nowhere now so eh.. it's just for laughs on game night.

 MLaw wrote:
What I don't understand, is that unless you're playing in tournaments, why not just use Heroclix or any of the other gazillion other options. I think the models are nice enough, I am just too broke to buy in... or.. I guess broke enough that I'd rather pay $20 for a whole collection of Clix and save the other money that would've been spent on terrain and stuff? I'm not saying everyone should do this. The models are fantastic and if/when I can afford them, I'll switch over.. I'm more saying, people are acting like there's no other options..

Shhhh, don't let the folks on the official forums or facebook group hear you say that, they'll brand you a thief for stealing money out of KMs pockets. Seriously though, even the word proxy is regarded with contempt over there. Apparently if you can't afford to pay, you don't deserve to play. I've got one friend who already quit playing and sold what models he'd collected so far because of the reaction he received when he asked why the PDF of the rules KM said they'd provide wasn't available yet.

Henshini wrote:

 MLaw wrote:
What I don't understand, is that unless you're playing in tournaments, why not just use Heroclix or any of the other gazillion other options. I think the models are nice enough, I am just too broke to buy in... or.. I guess broke enough that I'd rather pay $20 for a whole collection of Clix and save the other money that would've been spent on terrain and stuff? I'm not saying everyone should do this. The models are fantastic and if/when I can afford them, I'll switch over.. I'm more saying, people are acting like there's no other options..

Shhhh, don't let the folks on the official forums or facebook group hear you say that, they'll brand you a thief for stealing money out of KMs pockets. Seriously though, even the word proxy is regarded with contempt over there. Apparently if you can't afford to pay, you don't deserve to play. I've got one friend who already quit playing and sold what models he'd collected so far because of the reaction he received when he asked why the PDF of the rules KM said they'd provide wasn't available yet.

Yeah, a lot of companies/games have forums that are full of over-zealous toxic fanatics. It's funny because I'm sure in their own way they think they're supporting the game. I'm sure a lot of people who want to try it out would think about HC or standees or tokens for the characters until they decide if they like it or until they can afford it. I won't elaborate because this is roaming into off-topic. That AK batmobile is stunning as is the Arkham Asylum. I'm curious as to why they're dragging their feet on announcing a pricepoint.

The proxy discussion is a bit off topic here. That said, i think you have to understand that the OFFICIAL KM forum and the OFFICIAL KM Facebook page don't want you using/talking about using proxies intend of their own product. That doesn't mean you can't do that in your own home and still talk about using certain models in certain ways at those locations.

In terms of the price increase, there are things to look at. First, the company is filled with Spanish speakers; there's a fair chance the translation was not exactly directly what they intended. Perhaps they just meant their production costs (which include materials, but also salaries, shipping costs, etc). Or, it could be material costs other than the metals they use, like the ink, paper, or even plastics they use on the packaging.

Either way, I'm hoping this does;t end the enthusiasm that has been shown lately for the game.

New site is live, and with it, November's releases!
http://knightmodels-store.com/

Batmobile (can be built in driving or combat mode:


A new Joker, based on The Killing Joke:


Gatling Gun Brute for Joker/Harley:


Spice and Two-face Thugs (not that I know who Spice is)


Milita expansion with RPG and Medic:


And Arkham Asylum



Looks like the new sets are more expensive than the equivalent (in terms of general number/size of models) than previous releases, so probably a good indication of what's coming in the price rise department.


Also of note, the Knight Models Legends section lists Spiderman, The Goblin Cult, SHIELD and HYDRA as 'coming soon'....

AND A FUNCTIONING, OFFICIAL CREW BUILDER!
http://hero-builder.net/


Lots and lots to take in. Have to dash now, so if no one has copied over the cards for the new characters by then I'll do that when I get back.

SHIELD huh? Yeah, I'm down with that

Arkham Asylum 231 Euro

Batmobile 58 Euro

Pricey to be sure, and certainly not for everyone. I would personally dread building either.

But, there are some interesting side notes. There are some gang bundle deals, including the new Scarecrow and militia. The large pic of Killing Joke Joker has a poster of Zatanna. Looks like another anti-tank weapon for the Scarecrow militia in that RPG. And the Marvel game is rumored to have rules out in November.

OH! And the Joker covered rulebook is available for a brief time as well.

Sugar and Spice were the names of Tommy Lee Jones' sidekicks in Batman Forever.

Sugar I think was Drew Barrymore's first film role.... Spice, however, didn't look like that...

So I'm guessing she's based off a comic incarnation of them. Not a fan of the drastically divergent style of the henchmen though. In saying that, I'm not in love with the Arkham Two-Face henchmen. - Not entirely sure what to make of that set overall, to be honest... I might be better off getting a blackgate prisoners set to round out my Two-Face gang and leaving it at that.

Killing Joke Joker is great, I'd be tempted to buy that to paint.

I thought ET was Drew Barrymore's first film role..

Those prices.. I'll settle for the Hot Wheel Elite/Eaglemoss and wait for Multiverse or Angry Mojo to do an Asylum kit (actually.. guess I'll check and see if they have).

I may have to jump on that Joker cover though...

Here are the cards.

Joker

Harley Brute

Spice and 2 Face Thugs

Scarcrow Militia 1

OK, I guess this is official now too.

http://hero-builder.net

Enjoy!

 drazz wrote:
OK, I guess this is official now too.

http://hero-builder.net

Enjoy!

Is there a summary/print out page for the whole crew? If there is I can't find it, just the individual cards.

I do like that new Joker, if I hadn't just bought a Joker set he'd be a priority for sure (as it is, I'll pick him up 'at some point'). Two-face guys I'm not fussed with, when I get to him I'll stick to the existing Arkham 2-F goons and Gangsters, maybe Blackgates. Militia guys are nice, but the prospect of a 'pure' militia list is still not reachable, since although the Rep total for the band is now up to 335, the Funding then goes over $1500. Still, the Arkham Inmates go well enough with Scarecrow so I'm not too put off, he's still next on my list. Gatling gun guy I may go for at some point, but this month my wallet is largely safe. The coming-soonness of the Marvel stuff may put a dent in that, though...

Looks like there's no printout for the crews available, but below the leader icon you can at least 'save' crews, for which it then gives you a unique URL.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and here's a page of crew bundles that look to save a few quid:
http://knightmodels-store.com/epages/afaa2a23-c31d-4ae6-b1cd-12757513fd3b.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/afaa2a23-c31d-4ae6-b1cd-12757513fd3b/Categories/Packs

Need to order direct, though, so I doubt it's that worth it outside of mainland Europe.

Joker looks nice, more like 'completely normal appearance' Joker than Killing Joke tho, he'd be in beach duds with a camera of course!

2face set is terrible, I assume goons based on boring AK guys as they are awful. And their original take on Spice is putting me right to sleep. What is their track record on original takes on characters? Maybe they should stick with their srengths, overpriced poorly fitted minis, and get design inspiration from the company thats been drawing batman comics for the past 75 years.

What are the major price increases supposed to be? I just checked KM's webpage and saw the new joker is just over 16 euros, compared to the previous joker at just over 14 euros. A two euro difference isn't that big of a deal imho as the quality of the sculpts has progressed a long way as well. Also remember that you only need a handful of models to play this game.

Maybe price isn't bothering me as much as I play 40k where a single plastic terminator librarian is damn near $30 (and far less detailed).

I think the biggest barrier for this game is distribution. I have ordered from KM in the past and waited three months for my minis. The only major US retailers are CMON or miniature market (mm if you want a discount).

Really liking the new sculpts!

@445_PWR: you can get Knight Models minis at a discount from The War Store, too...
they carry Batman, Marvel, DC, and Watchmen 28mm minis...
my orders show up within 2-3 days, which is nice...

restock from KM is hit and miss...
everytime i place an order, and think about adding Dark Knight Bane in, he's sold out:(...

cheers
jah

That Arkham Asylum set is just absolutely awesome.

Does anyone have a link to where it's possible to have a closer look at the kit?

Tales of a Tabletop Skirmisher has a bunch of pics. I'll look around for others.

http://pressganger.blogspot.com/2015/08/arkham-asylum-update-little-more-done.html

This just in from their FB page