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I am not convinced of the value of these inferno pistols. I find it hard enough as it is reliably getting within 6" for melta safely, and I play a biker army. 3" on an arguably "slower" unit gives me pause.

I frequently play against Sisters of battle, and take it from me, they are nasty in the hands of BS 5 characters

Anyone know what Lemartes does now as last I heard he's an upgrade character for the DC?

I may not be the first person to ask this, but I really don't have the time to read through 52 pages...

Any chance those in the know could either do a V4 of this or at least modify the OP with a current summary of where we are??

I would like to know more but can't face the UBERTEXTWALL!!!!!!

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Perhaps GW's reasoning is that the BAs should be using the standard space marine boxed deals?

Well, a blood angels battlefroce would probably have assault marines galore maybe topped of with a rhino and mabe a death company. Some Sanguinary guard if your lucky.

The problem with that (or at least for GW) is that ultra smurfs and other codex space marine chapters get to benefit from the the savings a bit like the existing SM battleforce, and unlike space wolves there aren't that many unique sets to make a balanced set.

I don't think its likely we'll see a battleforce in the near future, but I certainly hope so

Chimera_Calvin wrote:I may not be the first person to ask this, but I really don't have the time to read through 52 pages...

Any chance those in the know could either do a V4 of this or at least modify the OP with a current summary of where we are??

I would like to know more but can't face the UBERTEXTWALL!!!!!!

+1

LunaHound wrote:

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:After checking the OZGW prices, thank goodness I get 40% off by buying from an internet retailer in the UK.

Because I'm using the DC kit on in some way on every single marine I make for this, my 6th BA army in 20 years.

I just looked at Japan's march catalogue , is the price just as bad in Aus?

Yeah, I think so, the Au price is nearly double the UK and US price

Edit That and I can't read Japanese so I'm not sure of the pricing there

Finally got to look at the book - some things I've noticed, going down the list: (note these are opinions so don't hammer me on some of them

HQ:
1. Special characters are EXPENSIVE. Basically looking at a Landraider cost for just about everything.
2. Having the stronger version of the Chaplain is nice in a HQ spot, but I guess they dropped the chaplain's ability to stop the DC from raging. If your unwilling to pay the huge cost of special characters, I guess it'll be a toss up for Chaplains or Librarians.
3. Librarian psychic powers are pretty good, although I miss having nullzone. Librarian dreads with Wings of Sanguinus (move as JP) could be pretty nasty, as well as the 4d6" lance shot and Str 10 for CC could be nasty as well.

Elite:
1. Everything seems to be competing for Elite spots
2. Chaplain elite choices? Wow.
3. Assault terminators have to pay extra for TH/SH combo - not understanding that one.
4. Sanguinary Guard - sure they look cool, but max squad size of 5 and pretty expensive. They don't have the heroic intervention like Vanguard Vets, as well as their swords don't give them a Str bonus, I'm failing to see how these guys are really a game changer.
5. Dreadnoughts. Let's see - Venerable, Furioso, Furioso Librarian. I'm partial to the Furioso, as it's not insanely expensive, can drop pod in close to enemy armor and use it's meltagun, while still decent in assaults. WS 6, so it should be hitting what it wants, while you can give it the Lightning Claw Blood Talons if you want. Furioso Librarian - 2 psychic powers, use 1 a turn, not exactly cheap, although you gain the force weapon and pyschic hood. I'm thinking use the "preferred enemy" psychic power with WS6 and the Blood Talons, reroll failed to hit, reroll failed to wound (LC) at Str 6, then gain extra attacks from each wound. Only being able to use 1 power a turn nerfs using the Str 10 power and combining that with your force weapon. AV 13 though on the Furioso variants so they have some CC staying power.
6. Vanguard stuff - eh. Not really interested.
7. Sanguinary Priests. 1-3 per elite choice, can give them terminator armor, give units within 6" FC and FNP. Can attach to units as IC. Talk about pretty good for the points cost (same as BA rhino), these guys could cover multiple units if you place them right.

Troops:
1. Death Company. Cool models. Not cheap. Giving them power weapons makes them just about as expensive as a normal terminator and don't have rending. Not being able to control their Rage rule anymore makes me wonder about these guys. Of course, throw a chaplain in there with them and you get rerolls to hit and wound. Furious charge and FNP. I can see drop podding these guys in or throwing them in a rhino to alleviate the Rage rule. Not a scoring unit though - blah.
2. Death Company Dreadnoughts. 1 per every 5 DC, ignore shaken and stunned, good in CC - still rage though. Not a scoring unit - blah.
3. Tactical Squads - normal but slightly more expensive, FAST vehicle rhino.
4. Scouts - eh.
5. Assault squads. Jump pack troops - whats not to like.

Fast Attack.
1. Baal Predator. These guys scout, have the Flamestorm cannon up top and can buy heavy flamer sponsons. Whats not to like for a Fast vehicle which is actually pretty cheap. AV 13.
2. Land Speeders, Land Speeder Storm - eh. Still think the regular land speeders with meltas will make their way in for anti-mech.

HS
1. Regular dreadnoughts. Can we fit anymore dreadnoughts in this army?
2. Land raiders - all 3 variants. I didn't see a cap on these for units to take as dedicated transports. Oh yeah they deepstrike. LOL.

Don't remember where the Stormraven flying transport thing went, but no model and relatively low armor (AV12) didn't really have me interested.

Played around with a couple lists - it's an interesting army. Dreadnought heavy could be interesting, as well as the rhino rush and drop podding could be an interesting combination. I'm not a big fan of deep striking jump pack troops, so the "Descent of Angels" doesn't really appeal to me. Death Company - very undecided. I love the special character models, but just too many points for my tastes. There's a decent sprinkling of anti-mech weapons in the army with basically every unit choice except for the death company, as well as plenty of CC folks. I'll be very curious to see what people come up with, as like the newer codexes, it is very flexible and doesn't get you locked into 1 power build.
I think the list I threw together (trying to stay away from Landraiders and Assault Terminators - just see too many of those in lists now) had something like 1 Reclusiarch in TA, 2 Furioso Dreads in DPs, 1 Furioso Librarian in DP, 2 Tactical Squads with MG and MM, 1 Squad of 9 Death Company with 3 power weapons in rhino, 2 Landspeeders with HF and MM, 1 Baal Pred with FC and HF sponsons, 2 regular dreads with MM and 1 Death Company Dread. 6 Dreads in 1850 list - lol.

Matt,

the good thing about the Dred as troops option is that it frees up an elite slot, unless you were planning on taking all 6 troop slots for bodies.

Can Assault Squads take meltaguns? And if so, is it 1 per 5?

I believe so, someone mentioned a full squad taking two.

I will say that I'm glad I withheld my initial knee jerk reaction to the likes of Mephiston and the stormharbringersparklymanlovemachine. It seems that the costs for the uber units is well placed and overall balance still seems to be there.

I think BA will be a strong "Competative" option for the tournament goers and a fun option for those that want it.

I do have a question though, and hopefully someone can answer. Does the Stormraven have an inertial guidance system? If not it seems that it would be a real PITA to put somewhere. Also is there any size description? What's to stop someone from making it, say, the size of a landspeeder?

I may have missed it, but is there any mention of regular Honour Guard? (Like the previous Codex). Am I going to have to split them all up now that Sanguinary Priests are a separate choice?

Also, I'm guessing no Ironclad Dreads?

Neith wrote:

Also, I'm guessing no Ironclad Dreads?

No Ironclads, but Furioso dreads have AV13 on the front.

Mattbranb wrote:
7. Sanguinary Priests. 1-3 per elite choice, can give them terminator armor, give units within 6" FC and FNP.

Interesting. Brother Omnio from space hulk would probably make a good model. Is there another model for termi armor I don't know?

Eh? Something feels off about this... Can't put my finger on it yet though...

Hey Mattbranb; one question, did you just miss the Devastator Squad in that summary or is it not in the dex?


//Edge

Sorry - the devastator entry is in there - just didn't talk about it. The book pretty much has every normal Space Marine entry in there for about the same points cost - some things are tweaked slightly (like TH/SS Terminators being a couple points more expensive).

Yes there are regular Honor Guard, who have a Sanguinary Priest in there (basically filling the same job as an Apothecary).

Didn't see anything on the Stormraven having inertial guidance.

Jbunny - good point on the dreads and elite choices. Only problem with the DC filling the troop slots is that you can control the Furioso's better than the DC, while you have to take death company troops to have the DC dreads. Plus neither one of them is a scoring unit.

Are the Land Raiders available as dedicated transports for everyone? If they are, I'm thinking 3 Dreadnoughts, 2 Land Raiders with scoring troops, and 6 Predators. 2x AV14 and 9x AV13 plus pods might be a tough nut to crack.

HOW can LR deepstrike?!?

coteaz wrote:HOW can LR deepstrike?!?

Apparently the rules in the codex say so.

Thunderhawk insertion, I believe. Note that just because they can doesn't mean they should.

jbunny wrote:

coteaz wrote:HOW can LR deepstrike?!?

Apparently the rules in the codex say so.

regular deepstrike? like a termy squad??

Most likely regular deepstrike, Termy Squads don't exaclty deepstrike...they teleport. Minor difference.

How can LR deepstrike:
One Giant Parachute?

Is it possible that the "Mephiston isn't an IC" thing is a mistake?

Sanctjud wrote:Most likely regular deepstrike, Termy Squads don't exaclty deepstrike...they teleport. Minor difference.

How can LR deepstrike:
One Giant Parachute?

but maybe they will follow the same method to "go down" on the tabletop..

Therion wrote:Are the Land Raiders available as dedicated transports for everyone? If they are, I'm thinking 3 Dreadnoughts, 2 Land Raiders with scoring troops, and 6 Predators. 2x AV14 and 9x AV13 plus pods might be a tough nut to crack.

I was thinking something similar -- wondering if it would be feasible to get two more dreads in troops for 11 total AV13 and then use reroll-reserve-and-1d6-scatter scoring Assault squads to claim objectives.

It should at least seriously change the meta; 11 AV13+ is tough to deal with.

Said it before, I'll say it again -- the best thing I've seen so far in the codex is the AV13 FA choices.

Thanks Mat!


//Edge

I was thinking something similar -- wondering if it would be feasible to get two more dreads in troops for 11 total AV13 and then use reroll-reserve-and-1d6-scatter scoring Assault squads to claim objectives.

It might be if the Assault Squads can get something like two meltaguns per five men. As long as the list has 10 or more AV13 or higher vehicles it should be cool They will ignore multi-lasers, laugh at autocannons, and be quite resilient to missile launchers. In return, they totally obliterate stuff like Razorbacks and Chimeras/Vendettas.

I just opened my Black Box to perues the codex........
OH



MY




GOD.



"wets self"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The part where Land Raiders can deep strike.........it was like heaven.

Deepstriking Landraiders?

I call shinanigans!

I am serious. I posted the most crazy things on my forums here

Land Raiders deepstriking (if it really is true...) could be problematic anyway- it's a pretty huge model and if it doesn't have a rule like Drop Pods it could be one hell of a risky Deep Strike. It'll be interesting to see if it can be put to good effect on the tabletop. I'm more interested in Baal Predators with Scout really. a Flamestorm Cannon + 2 Heavy Flamer Baal could really hurt horde armies- hell, the Flamestorm could wreck MEQs if played right. (I think it's AP3?)