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Isn't the game already being played at a skirmish level though?

Looking at the gold costs for most warbands, especially if monstrous infantry or beasts are part of your host, you're not looking at more than 10 or 15 models really hitting the table.

Heck, every time I've tried to put together a Khthon muster it always ends up between 3 to 6 models at 1000 points. Maybe that's due to needing some cheap Savrar to screen all the crocs, but they're a pretty expensive host as it is points- wise...

I don't think the game is being played much at all, period.

I mean, I'm guessing you've looked at the rule book, yes?

It does not lend itself to a casual inspection, or to jumping right in and playing.

Now, granted, a lot that is in there can just be ignored, not used, etc.

But that book is (x) pages with almost all of it being rather dryly presented rules, not much background, few illustrations, etc.

I know that Rob wants to 'do it all', but he probably should get some help in some key areas.

I'd love for someone to do a 'fan edit', much like someone did for Infinity an edition or so back - that really helped me understand that game a lot better.

This one needs help - and of course that backlog needs help too!

I really want this game - and company - to survive.

The miniatures and setting are too good to lose!

 Alpharius wrote:
I don't think the game is being played much at all, period.

I mean, I'm guessing you've looked at the rule book, yes?

It does not lend itself to a casual inspection, or to jumping right in and playing.

Now, granted, a lot that is in there can just be ignored, not used, etc.

But that book is (x) pages with almost all of it being rather dryly presented rules, not much background, few illustrations, etc.

I know that Rob wants to 'do it all', but he probably should get some help in some key areas.

I'd love for someone to do a 'fan edit', much like someone did for Infinity an edition or so back - that really helped me understand that game a lot better.

This one needs help - and of course that backlog needs help too!

I really want this game - and company - to survive.

The miniatures and setting are too good to lose!

I agree with all of this Alph!

Not even getting into the gameplay rules, the 'building an army' aspect of the game is intimidating. I've tried to build a list, had to revamp as characters gold/command values shifted. Then they whole system got revamped and every thing changed (though admittedly, it did make much more sense after that).

I always thought it'd be cool to have it a bit more like Warmachine/Hordes, where everything is centered around a hero character. I thought it would be cool if you chose your heroes (perhaps a warrior, magic user, and 2nd in command), then you would use gold/points to purchase infantry in the army. Depending on which units you chose, and how they corresponded to the characters you had, you would gain Mythic/Lore/Magical type points. These you would spend on any manner of monsters, so that monsters were separate, but also sort of 'free' to your list. And building more thematic lists, would grant you more 'magical' points to get monsters. I'm not sure how monstrous infantry would fit into that whole scheme, especially since there are like 4 levels of monstrous infantry. Plus, you've got kindreds like the Jutes/formoraic/Vras, where you've got more 'monstery' 30mm infantry. And then there's Monstrous commanders, how could Krull lead a host of infernii? So, there'd have to be some way to make all that work.


I love the amount of detail the game has where you've got shifts in Time of Day, Monsters degrade as they're wounded (something GW has now picked up), etc. But I can't help but feel there needs to be a neat simple package that makes everything quick & easy to play.

I looked over the full PDF rules before they were taken down, I couldn't understand why just getting your team organised is so freaking hard...game rules should include pre-assembled teams, jsut get x, y, z, a, b, and c, off you go.
I just don't see what the advantage is for akng such complciated setup rules...reality?

yxalitis wrote:
I looked over the full PDF rules before they were taken down, I couldn't understand why just getting your team organised is so freaking hard...game rules should include pre-assembled teams, jsut get x, y, z, a, b, and c, off you go.
I just don't see what the advantage is for akng such complciated setup rules...reality?

On that point, I strongly disagree; creating your army is the one place I want as much complexity as possible, "ease of use" be damned. It doesn't slow things down unless people insist on list-tailoring(an odd practice IMO), and I want to make my army/warband/whatever, not choose from whatever limited selection the game's producers deign to offer me.

For my money the worst trend in 40K over the last few years, culminating in 8th, has been the simplification of army creation by removing options.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Isn't the game already being played at a skirmish level though?

Looking at the gold costs for most warbands, especially if monstrous infantry or beasts are part of your host, you're not looking at more than 10 or 15 models really hitting the table.

Heck, every time I've tried to put together a Khthon muster it always ends up between 3 to 6 models at 1000 points. Maybe that's due to needing some cheap Savrar to screen all the crocs, but they're a pretty expensive host as it is points- wise...

The infantry starter hosts are 499gc and typically 16 models. I assume the "usual" game size is 1500 or more.

New updates. First off...

Beast of the Peat

Another update for Darklands: Mighty Monsters, with the news that the Mighty Allan Carrasco has begun work on the rest of the Peat Beasts...

Let's enjoy...



Just the one miniature from Allan so far, for the Érainn although he's begun work on the other three from its unit...



The Beasts of Machairá Peat have taken their sweet time to be done, but Allan's cracking on and I shouldn't wonder if they're done by the next update...





The Peat Beast known as Bréana is looking... erm... beautiful? thanks to Allan's work...





We're hoping the unit will be ready for Wave 21 for sure...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spinal Rip

What a lovely time we're having here, thanks to Jason Hendricks, who is cracking on with the Brute-Beasts #despitebrexit.

We're off...



Again, just one miniature for the Ysians from Jason this time around...



The simply awesome Brute-Beasts are only awesome because of Danny Cruz' and Jason Hendricks' efforts, so let us salute those two stars of artistry!



The second warrior of the unit, Trugg appears to have ripped a big spine out of something and, like as not, beat its original owner to beyond death with it. What a lovely chap he must be.











Here's a scale shot...



Hopefully the Brute-Beasts will make their way into Wave 21!

Well that explains how Tim did his nurgloid conversions

(one peat beast done and in their hands to be cast up and sent back for Alan to 'convert' into the rest of the unit)

Kraan and Maagaan

Here's another update, the first of 2018, for you this week on Darklands: Warriors of Baalor, featuring the last of the limited edition Fomoraic nobles.

Here we go...



Two lovely conversions of existing miniatures from Yannick Hennebo this month, both for the Fomoraic, funnily enough.



Kraan gets a great axe to become - wait for it - Great Axe Kraan! Fantastic!









He'll be a Wave 21 shipment...



The limited edition variant of Maagaan, carrying an ice staff, is called Ice Staff Maagaan, inventively.





He'll be Wave 21 too!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Beware the ravages of heathen men

New Hrafnen Crew

Welcome to this, the very first update for Darklands: Savage Hordes IV, and it's an awesome one for sure!

For those not in the know or are new to our projects, every couple of weeks (all being well) we create updates on a project to show works in progress on the miniatures funded by that project.

Let's crack on!



There's just the one miniature to show so far, and he's for the Norse. It's early days, too, so bear with us!



The Hrafnen Crew resculpt is happening because of the Hrafnen Bowmen from Savage Hordes II, which are being sculpted by Bob Płociennik, and of course that they're due a resculpt!



It's early days for Vidkun the Brave, the unit's champion, but this is an early indication of how awesome the new Holumenn are going to be... All Hail Bob!

As well as the sword and shield you see here, they'll come with sword/axe and shield and spear and shield.





These guys should be done in time for Wave 21...

 Alpharius wrote:
I don't think the game is being played much at all, period.

Just a small plug, Ive tried to get Darklands listed on the player finder here. There are enough people in this thread who mentioned wanting to play that it would not be the smallest game listed nor would Mierce be a defunct company like Spartan.

Ive connected through the Mierce Forums with another person in the Saint Paul, MN metro to get a learning game in. Growing Darklands is a game of inches especially with the way units have come out rather disorganized through the KS. Yes its cool to have endless monsters for the Formoric but really, shouldnt we have living Jutes by now?

Vhalan wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
I don't think the game is being played much at all, period.

Just a small plug, Ive tried to get Darklands listed on the player finder here. There are enough people in this thread who mentioned wanting to play that it would not be the smallest game listed nor would Mierce be a defunct company like Spartan.

Ive connected through the Mierce Forums with another person in the Saint Paul, MN metro to get a learning game in. Growing Darklands is a game of inches especially with the way units have come out rather disorganized through the KS. Yes its cool to have endless monsters for the Formoric but really, shouldnt we have living Jutes by now?

Perhaps that is there thought process, flesh out the factions in order of need, and be damned with the KS order...

These 3D sculpts look nice...maybe with these smaller ones they outsource the printing, hence the push on the little figures recently, at least once sculpted by Bob they can be sent out to get printed, and cast up in resin.

Maybe...who knows...?

yxalitis wrote:

Vhalan wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
I don't think the game is being played much at all, period.

Just a small plug, Ive tried to get Darklands listed on the player finder here. There are enough people in this thread who mentioned wanting to play that it would not be the smallest game listed nor would Mierce be a defunct company like Spartan.

Ive connected through the Mierce Forums with another person in the Saint Paul, MN metro to get a learning game in. Growing Darklands is a game of inches especially with the way units have come out rather disorganized through the KS. Yes its cool to have endless monsters for the Formoric but really, shouldnt we have living Jutes by now?

Perhaps that is there thought process, flesh out the factions in order of need, and be damned with the KS order...

These 3D sculpts look nice...maybe with these smaller ones they outsource the printing, hence the push on the little figures recently, at least once sculpted by Bob they can be sent out to get printed, and cast up in resin.

Maybe...who knows...?

I don't think the living Jutes were even funded until 2017 in Savage Hordes 4, and the jutes themselves were not one of the original kindreds. The Holumen archers were funded with Savager Hordes 1, back in 2015, and the Norse desperately need some man sized troops. Same w the Angelcynn wolf archers. They could either modify the existing bad sculpts, or create new digital sculpts and modify those. This kills two birds w one stone. As the "proud" owner of 25 original puny warriors of Baalor, I appreciate them trying to avoid the issue and saving other customers from getting an inferior product that was just going to be phased out anyways.

Hey, if anyone wants some excellent 20mm chaos warriors, drop me a line lol.

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:


I don't think the living Jutes were even funded until 2017 in Savage Hordes 4, and the jutes themselves were not one of the original kindreds. The Holumen archers were funded with Savager Hordes 1, back in 2015, and the Norse desperately need some man sized troops. Same w the Angelcynn wolf archers. They could either modify the existing bad sculpts, or create new digital sculpts and modify those. This kills two birds w one stone. As the "proud" owner of 25 original puny warriors of Baalor, I appreciate them trying to avoid the issue and saving other customers from getting an inferior product that was just going to be phased out anyways.

Hey, if anyone wants some excellent 20mm chaos warriors, drop me a line lol.

That's true, show you how far backlogged the kickstarters are...

What about the wolf men though?

I never understood what all the hooplah was, for the living Jute troops. I always thought it was kind of cool that the army was mostly skeletons, Bugs, and Ghosts, with just a sprinkle of living folks to tell everyone what to do.

But people REALLY wanted them. I don't doubt they'll look great (they'd look better if they all wore chain-veils, just sayin ), I just always assumed the draw of the Jute kindred, was that they were undead among so many 'living' kindreds.

 skullking wrote:
I never understood what all the hooplah was, for the living Jute troops. I always thought it was kind of cool that the army was mostly skeletons, Bugs, and Ghosts, with just a sprinkle of living folks to tell everyone what to do.

But people REALLY wanted them. I don't doubt they'll look great (they'd look better if they all wore chain-veils, just sayin ), I just always assumed the draw of the Jute kindred, was that they were undead among so many 'living' kindreds.

I don't know what was wrong with an entirely undead army?
Why add living troops into the mix, how does that conversation go?
"Had a good day?"
*looks over
"Enjoying the weather?"
*turns away
"OK then, nice chatting!"

It probably goes how any necromantic type of conversation would go?

Count me among the group that really want the living Jutes to go along with the Undead ones - and the bugs too, don't forget the bugs!

I think they'll all look great together on the table!

We play in Buffalo NY if anyone is interested in joining us

 Alpharius wrote:
It probably goes how any necromantic type of conversation would go?

Count me among the group that really want the living Jutes to go along with the Undead ones - and the bugs too, don't forget the bugs!

I think they'll all look great together on the table!

Speaking of bugs: We are still waiting on Scaethan, Nihtglom, and Selkilias to even be sculpted, and printed, and molded, and produced, and shipped....along with Schyros and Uuroch, and...and...

*sigh

Am i wrong to be impatient...after nearly 2 years, for the minis I PAID FOR to be even at the first stage of production??

Sooo, question - when are these big discount sales people have been mentioning?

I just priced out the models I want to pick up for my rework of the Albion campaign for Mordheim and...eesh, I got the same kind of cringe you get when you see someone being kicked in the nads, except in my wallet.

Doesn't help that a lot of the stuff isn't metal yet, and they don't let you buy the five packs in metal regardless :/

If you're on the mailing list you'll get notified, so I guess get on the mailing list?

No especial rhyme or reason to when they happen that I've noticed, and as direct sales are already 5% off RRP bear in mind that a 15% sale (for instance) is in reality more of a 10% sale.

yxalitis wrote:

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:


I don't think the living Jutes were even funded until 2017 in Savage Hordes 4, and the jutes themselves were not one of the original kindreds. The Holumen archers were funded with Savager Hordes 1, back in 2015, and the Norse desperately need some man sized troops. Same w the Angelcynn wolf archers. They could either modify the existing bad sculpts, or create new digital sculpts and modify those. This kills two birds w one stone. As the "proud" owner of 25 original puny warriors of Baalor, I appreciate them trying to avoid the issue and saving other customers from getting an inferior product that was just going to be phased out anyways.

Hey, if anyone wants some excellent 20mm chaos warriors, drop me a line lol.

That's true, show you how far backlogged the kickstarters are...

What about the wolf men though?

The ones just resculpted digitally by Bob for Starter Hosts 2? They also needed to be redone for the Savage Hordes 1 wolf archers, as I've been waiting on them since 2015. Same issue as the Holumen... the existing wolf men looked weird with long monkey tails, so they'd either need to adapt those or make new base models.

Hror kind of jumped the queue, though there may have been a variant of him outstanding too. I'd imagine that once they have a wolf man "nude" digital they can modify it easy.

Bob really does seem to be plowing through these with good work at a good clip. Though I hope we have more coming from some of the traditional sculptors. Totally get the apprehension on the backlog. I have a gut feeling that they may have promised too many sculpts on some of these (SH3 notably) for the money they took in, so had to accept that booked sculptors would do them more at their convenience in exchange for smaller fees.

Side note, if they're doing tweaks to existing sculpts, I really wish they would re-part the ax/bow/chain drune's heads to be separate pieces from the bodies, but with the horns attached. Jeez they are a PITA to get on...

Holumann anyone?

Much nicer than the weedly originals, with the ill-fitting helmets...

(Still not super excited to 're-buy' stuff though!)

That's what y'all get for buying weedy humans in the first place!

If only you had purchased the majestic Khthon in all their scaly splendor this would never happen.

Unless you ordered Savrar and then you're stuck waiting like the rest of us.

No snake-men for me.

I'm all in on Croc-Men and Turtle-Men (when they show up).

But yes, I went in on the Lizard-Men too, so...yeah, waiting.

Looks quite nice, but that axe has no detail - hopefully it was just a placeholder!

Is Mierce updating on printing at all (i.e. are the masters for the Savrar units you guys were discussing printed?).

 RiTides wrote:
Looks quite nice, but that axe has no detail - hopefully it was just a placeholder!

Is Mierce updating on printing at all (i.e. are the masters for the Savrar units you guys were discussing printed?).

Not a word, just: "soon" for around 6 months now.
That's my biggest gripe...as long as a year ago they have marked as "completed" all the 3D sculpts Bob has done for various old kickstarters, but not many have not actually been printed.
I think only the small stuff gets outsourced.

From New Kindreds, funded to a whopping £115,000, way back in September 2014!

BRONN AP BANBRONN was completed Aug 12 2016, well over a year ago, and nearly 2 yeas after the kickstarter was funded:
Finally released to general sales in October 2017.

I ordered Dairdubh, just got him late last year...

The astonishing thing is that Mierce has dragged in over £850,000 in 5 years of Kickstarters.

In the first year and a half thay had accumulated £530,000

Minus fess of course...

Kickstarter income has been on a steep decline the past few years.

It was mentioned in the comments of the most recent campaign that they've ordered a printer and its on the way. Rob also said if would be a bit until they start getting production masters out of it as they still have to learn how to use it which, as someone who 3D prints a lot, is reasonable. It takes a good number of test prints to learn how the machine works and "dial" it in to get a good print. A resin machine is generally easier to get good prints out of but you have to clean and cure them afterwards and its easy to destroy a print during one of those steps.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
It was mentioned in the comments of the most recent campaign that they've ordered a printer and its on the way. Rob also said if would be a bit until they start getting production masters out of it as they still have to learn how to use it which, as someone who 3D prints a lot, is reasonable. It takes a good number of test prints to learn how the machine works and "dial" it in to get a good print. A resin machine is generally easier to get good prints out of but you have to clean and cure them afterwards and its easy to destroy a print during one of those steps.

Can you show me that quote, I do not remember seeing that, and i was looking for it!
Edit, found it:
@Nick - I wouldn't like to say what it says about you ;o) @Seneca - depends what you mean by "easter time" - especially if metal. With the Werwulfas done and the 3D printer imminent (although we have to do some training rather than "what does this button do") I'm hopeful of April shipments for metals, maybe March if resin... @Jonas - the "forthcoming hosts" are all in their parent categories - so if you need access to the Vras, you must have access to the Savage Hordes IV category. I see you don't have that access, so I've just given it to you...

Jan 26 2018 on Darklands: Starter Hosts II

"Imminent" is that sooner than "soon"?

Don't know if the savrar are printed yet but they should be in wave 21 (metal wave 22) so should be soon (ish), or so the last update says