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Made in us
Aspirant Tech-Adept





 Kanluwen wrote:
And my point is that Slaves to Darkness is an exception rather than the rule. It's currently one of three Start Collecting sets using easier to build mechanics that weren't in Starter Sets.
The other two are Start Collecting Vanguard Space Marines and Start Collecting Chaos Space Marines--both of which got brought in via Shadowspear(a battle box rather than starter).

And no, it isn't "a bit beside the point". Read the article posted yesterday. These are the kits that will be available at retail. The Sisters stuff will likely end up as a Start Collecting later this year, but we have yet to see any signs of AoS moving to have slews of SC sets in an easy build format.

Didn't dispute that the Lumineth Army Set has full kits. That's fact.

The contention is you believe the Start Collecting Lumineth box will have push-fit models and I'm saying I think it's likely they'll just use the full kits but that ultimately I don't care so long as it's the same units (or equivalently cool units).

All this to argue that I don't feel the Army Set is a good purchase for me at this time since I'd be paying for stuff I don't want and could pick up the stuff I care about (or a reasonable equivalent) for less money down the line when I'm not bolter deep in the new 40k set.

If anyone else feels like buy it, that's great. My reasons not to don't disparage your choice.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





It's not a set I'd pick up, but I guess can sort of justify the price by looking at it like:

*The models are basically a start collecting (albeit a very poor one) or half the contents of one of those limited run boxsets. If you consider it a Start Collecting, that alone is $85.

*The Limited Edition Battletome. I'm not sure what price they do LE tomes, but when I picked up the old Dwarf rulebook, it cost $100.

*36 Reference cards. Those usually retail at $12-15, right? The cheapest cards I've seen GW sell are warcry ones for $10, while some go up to $27 (yikes), but we'll just say they'd cost $12.

*20 Army dice. Unlike the Miracle Dice from the sisters of battle army box, these actually are themed to the army. So $15.

*I'm not going to bother pricing the rest of the stuff. A 16 rulebook pamphlet, combat guage, 9 inch rule, and objective tokens don't really hold any value.

So, technically the set would have a value of $212ish dollars, give or take. And retails at $185.

I guess its not terrible. It's not really over priced, and once the units are released separately, I imagine those three units will retail for more than $85. Eltharion alone is probably $30, and even small units tend to be pretty costly now. I guess its good if you like the look of the army and wanted a limited edition battletome. I don't know how many people care about the cards or mediocre themed dice, but I guess those are just bonus
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

 Dentry wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
And my point is that Slaves to Darkness is an exception rather than the rule. It's currently one of three Start Collecting sets using easier to build mechanics that weren't in Starter Sets.
The other two are Start Collecting Vanguard Space Marines and Start Collecting Chaos Space Marines--both of which got brought in via Shadowspear(a battle box rather than starter).

And no, it isn't "a bit beside the point". Read the article posted yesterday. These are the kits that will be available at retail. The Sisters stuff will likely end up as a Start Collecting later this year, but we have yet to see any signs of AoS moving to have slews of SC sets in an easy build format.

Didn't dispute that the Lumineth Army Set has full kits. That's fact.

The contention is you believe the Start Collecting Lumineth box will have push-fit models and I'm saying I think it's likely they'll just use the full kits but that ultimately I don't care so long as it's the same units (or equivalently cool units).

All this to argue that I don't feel the Army Set is a good purchase for me at this time since I'd be paying for stuff I don't want and could pick up the stuff I care about (or a reasonable equivalent) for less money down the line when I'm not bolter deep in the new 40k set.

If anyone else feels like buy it, that's great. My reasons not to don't disparage your choice.

Okay, so basically you decided to put words in my mouth or misunderstood what I said and have been arguing against that. Cool, now I get what's going on.

Spoiler:
Kanluwen wrote:
That's assuming the SC box is:
a) Coming this year(highly doubtful).
b) Contains the same items as this set.
c) Not going to be $100 or so.

We know exactly what is "limited to this box". Dice($25 for 20 when they release usually), counters and ability cards(ranges from $20 to $30), the combat gauge(first time we've gotten an army themed one that I can think of--these are overpriced normally), and the book's specialness.

Realtalk:
If people want the items in this set? You're probably going to want to grab it. I'm not a fan of the army book but I can(and will) trade/sell that off if I like the cover of the general release better.

You're looking at $35 to $40 for Eltharion(50mm based character), $50 to $60 for the Wardens, $50 to $60 for the Dawnriders.
That's anywhere from $135 to $160 individually. The Start Collecting will probably be a Scinari Cathaller or Alarith Stonemage(guessing conservatively, $35 a pop on them--possibly $30 if lucky), a pack of Wardens, and a unit of Dawnriders or one of the Spirits of Alarith(the goat construct). The army is fairly limited as to what there is and they likely want to do a 'sampler' with the SC versus the Army Pack that's up right now which leans heavily towards the Vanari side of things.

I never said anything about pushfits. The numbers I called out are for full kits.
When I stated a 'sampler', it refers to the fact that Lumineth have effectively two 'factions' in them: Alarith(Stonemage, Spirit of the Mountain/named battlegoat, and Stonewardens) and Vanari(Wardens, Sentinels, Dawnriders) with the remaining three characters(Teclis, Light of Eltharion, Scinari Cathallers) playing an 'inbetween' role for both.

I never referred to anything Lumineth as pushfits. I ballparked some prices for the kits in this big box.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 GaroRobe wrote:
It's not a set I'd pick up, but I guess can sort of justify the price by looking at it like:

*The models are basically a start collecting (albeit a very poor one) or half the contents of one of those limited run boxsets. If you consider it a Start Collecting, that alone is $85.

Start Collectings aren't a static price anymore. $85 is for the Khorne & SC out of the starter set for Realmgate Wars and the non-Primaris Space Wolves set. $90 is where we're starting at now for most stuff, $110 is the most expensive if I remember right.

*The Limited Edition Battletome. I'm not sure what price they do LE tomes, but when I picked up the old Dwarf rulebook, it cost $100.

$80 now.

*36 Reference cards. Those usually retail at $12-15, right? The cheapest cards I've seen GW sell are warcry ones for $10, while some go up to $27 (yikes), but we'll just say they'd cost $12.

So here's where things get weird. "Reference Cards" aren't a thing we usually see. These ones are a different format it seems from what we normally get(which are Warscroll Cards detailing the units from the army not the wargear and the like) and would be included with the Objective Tokens in all likelihood.

It's possible that this book is going to be like Codex: Genestealer Cult and include the Objective Sheet with the Battletome.

*20 Army dice. Unlike the Miracle Dice from the sisters of battle army box, these actually are themed to the army. So $15.

Army dice are $20 to $25 a pop usually.

*I'm not going to bother pricing the rest of the stuff. A 16 rulebook pamphlet, combat guage, 9 inch rule, and objective tokens don't really hold any value.

So, technically the set would have a value of $212ish dollars, give or take. And retails at $185.

I guess its not terrible. It's not really over priced, and once the units are released separately, I imagine those three units will retail for more than $85. Eltharion alone is probably $30, and even small units tend to be pretty costly now. I guess its good if you like the look of the army and wanted a limited edition battletome. I don't know how many people care about the cards or mediocre themed dice, but I guess those are just bonus

Combat Gauge is the only thing which would actually have a price. They were something stupid like $30 for a metal thing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/20 23:17:38


 
   
Made in ca
Brave High Elf Commander





British Columbia

Getting multiple to sell off the extra shinies and duplicate special character seems quite common in the swap groups.


 Crimson Devil wrote:
That's what 7th edition is about. Yelling "Forge the Narrative Pussy!" while kicking your opponent in the dick.
 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in fi
Crazed Wardancer





 Overread wrote:
 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Side question; is this the first time a limited ed battle tome/codex has been sold through 3rd parties?


Nope the Sisters of Battle was, far as I recall, also sold through 3rd parties and also had a limited edition inside. I think its how GW wants to sell them now. It doesn't surprise me as the price for limited editions on their own always turned me away from them; giving them away with discount over a regular codex along with a box of great models all at the start is a very neat way to get sales of them. Certainly the SoB and Luminoth boxed sets are things I would have bought if I were starting either army and had the money at launch.
Well, the Sisters got a second limited edition codex anyway; sold seperately from the box.
As for appearing better value, due to having the easy to build figures with basically no options, the SoB box was cheaper than the basic codex and even just a fraction of the included figures if bought as full kits (which are obviously not worth the same anyway, but assuming you also buy at least some of the full kits later for some extra bits, they're not much worse). While these Lumineth are the full kits, the set only appears to be discounted if putting a high value on the limited edition nature of the codex, which many people don't (especially since it's just a special cover, none of the fancy stuff they used to have in the past). In fact, I absolutely love the SoB codex from the box set, but if available seperately I wouldn't have paid more than a fiver extra to have it instead of the ordinary version.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Wow....185 usd for that army box is a hoot. Just absolutely hilarious to me.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Do we know the cost of the Light of Eltharion individually?

I imagine as a solo he would be priced pretty close to Abaddon and wouldn't form part of a start collecting set.

Hodge-Podge says: Run with the Devil, Shout Satan's Might. Deathtongue! Deathtongue! The Beast arises tonight!
 
   
Made in de
Poisonous Tomb Scorpion






 torgoch wrote:
Do we know the cost of the Light of Eltharion individually?

I imagine as a solo he would be priced pretty close to Abaddon and wouldn't form part of a start collecting set.


We don't know yet. Given the size he's probably going to be the new named character price of 32,50€. Bile rather than Abaddon.

Unless he's released so late that GW raises the price again in the meantime.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of! 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Geifer wrote:
 torgoch wrote:
Do we know the cost of the Light of Eltharion individually?

I imagine as a solo he would be priced pretty close to Abaddon and wouldn't form part of a start collecting set.


We don't know yet. Given the size he's probably going to be the new named character price of 32,50€. Bile rather than Abaddon.

Unless he's released so late that GW raises the price again in the meantime.


Ah, i was expecting him to be more than Bile. He's a substantial model on large scenic base. Still, we will see.


Hodge-Podge says: Run with the Devil, Shout Satan's Might. Deathtongue! Deathtongue! The Beast arises tonight!
 
   
Made in gb
Wolf Guard Bodyguard in Terminator Armor





 torgoch wrote:
 Geifer wrote:
 torgoch wrote:
Do we know the cost of the Light of Eltharion individually?

I imagine as a solo he would be priced pretty close to Abaddon and wouldn't form part of a start collecting set.


We don't know yet. Given the size he's probably going to be the new named character price of 32,50€. Bile rather than Abaddon.

Unless he's released so late that GW raises the price again in the meantime.


Ah, i was expecting him to be more than Bile. He's a substantial model on large scenic base. Still, we will see.


Bile is two guys now. And a Chaos Lord at that; hardly insubstantial. But really the main thing is the number of sprues and I don’t think we have that for Eltharion 3.0

Actually, does anyone else want the actual Eltharion to turn up one day and be all “rumours of my death have been greatly exaggerated” just for the look on Teclis’s (and everyone else’s) face? Not least because then they have to figure out who/what has really been piloting the suit this whole time…

"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
 
   
Made in us
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Right behind you.

Light of Eltharion is on a 50mm base. He'd be $35USD or so when released individually--but probably bumped to $40 given that he's a named.
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






The model is also hollow with a textured interior, I don't know if that makes the molds more expensive to produce but I wouldn't be surprised.

Consider; Games Workshop rules not so much games but as toolboxes for players to craft an experience from, and open/narrative/matched play just examples of how things can be put together. 
   
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Ambitious Acothyst With Agonizer




Boston, MA

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The model is also hollow with a textured interior, I don't know if that makes the molds more expensive to produce but I wouldn't be surprised.


I can't imagine that the sprue design would need to be any different, he'll still be assembled from moldable forms.

Kabal of the Slit Throat ~2000pts
Elect of the Plaguefather 4500pts

 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






The idea being that for any given piece both sides must have a fully sculpted texture, as opposed to one side being smooth and featureless since it will be on the interior of an enclosed model. But again, I have no idea if that is a real factor or not.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/22 04:02:13


Consider; Games Workshop rules not so much games but as toolboxes for players to craft an experience from, and open/narrative/matched play just examples of how things can be put together. 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





That affects more on how model is split, aka front and rear half of armour separate you then glue together to form chest plate etc

Not expecting extra price. Gw has long done 2 sided details even for parts where those details arent seen even.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/22 05:58:14


12 factions for Lord of The Rings
4663
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in si
Skillful Swordmaster





The number of undercuts, type and number of the nozzles, cost of the material, pins, the hour cost of CNC and other technological operations are rough factors used. The number of undercuts, material cost, and CNC hours are the factors that add the most to the cost of the tool.

It's quite likely GW uses some other formulas to determine its cost, but I'd be surprised, if that'd be the cause of this particular product selling at the higher price. I am not an expert in moulding but it could also be a possibility that they've used this project just to see how much they can push it from a technological view.
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





Eltharion is a single sprue.

Also, these guys cannot ally with Order Draconis or any of the old Elves... really disappointed...
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

Order Draconis, Swifthawk Agents, and any High Elf stuff that wasn't Shadow Warriors(now in Shadowblades) or Sisters of Avelorn(now Sisters of the Watch in the Wanderers) are gone over to Legends...so is it really that surprising the Lumineth can't ally with them?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/22 15:49:07


 
   
Made in ca
Brave High Elf Commander





British Columbia

 Kanluwen wrote:
Order Draconis, Swifthawk Agents, and any High Elf stuff that wasn't Shadow Warriors(now in Shadowblades) or Sisters of Avelorn(now Sisters of the Watch in the Wanderers) are gone over to Legends...so is it really that surprising the Lumineth can't ally with them?

Who can they ally with?

 Crimson Devil wrote:
That's what 7th edition is about. Yelling "Forge the Narrative Pussy!" while kicking your opponent in the dick.
 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in au
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine






 Eldarain wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Order Draconis, Swifthawk Agents, and any High Elf stuff that wasn't Shadow Warriors(now in Shadowblades) or Sisters of Avelorn(now Sisters of the Watch in the Wanderers) are gone over to Legends...so is it really that surprising the Lumineth can't ally with them?

Who can they ally with?


Only Idoneth Deepkin.
   
Made in ca
Brave High Elf Commander





British Columbia

 Tiberius501 wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Order Draconis, Swifthawk Agents, and any High Elf stuff that wasn't Shadow Warriors(now in Shadowblades) or Sisters of Avelorn(now Sisters of the Watch in the Wanderers) are gone over to Legends...so is it really that surprising the Lumineth can't ally with them?

Who can they ally with?


Only Idoneth Deepkin.

Would not have been my first guess. Thought Teclis burned that bridge. I'm more curious than ever to read their lore now. That's a surprisingly limited list of allies.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
That's what 7th edition is about. Yelling "Forge the Narrative Pussy!" while kicking your opponent in the dick.
 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in au
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine






 Eldarain wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Order Draconis, Swifthawk Agents, and any High Elf stuff that wasn't Shadow Warriors(now in Shadowblades) or Sisters of Avelorn(now Sisters of the Watch in the Wanderers) are gone over to Legends...so is it really that surprising the Lumineth can't ally with them?

Who can they ally with?


Only Idoneth Deepkin.

Would not have been my first guess. Thought Teclis burned that bridge. I'm more curious than ever to read their lore now. That's a surprisingly limited list of allies.


Yeah I’m surprised too. From the snippets of lore they’ve shown so far, they seem to be very prideful and vein (usual high elf kind of affair) so I assume that’ll be a reason for why they don’t ally with most. But allying with Idoneth is odd, of all the ones they could’ve picked, so maybe they rekindle some form of alliance or friendship.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/23 06:11:50


 
   
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Stormcast can always take Lumineth as allies I guess.

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The General's Handbook goes on pre-order next weekend:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/28/sunday-preview-calling-all-generals/

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/28 17:07:05


'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos






Well . . . That's unexpected.

2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
 
   
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Well it was now or later half of august earlier. Guess gw wanted to give aos something before weeks of 40k focus

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
4663
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General






Florence, KY

tneva82 wrote:
Well it was now or later half of august earlier. Guess gw wanted to give aos something before weeks of 40k focus

The General's Handbook 2017 was released in August of 2017. The General's Handbook 2018 and the General's Handbook 2019 came out in June of their respective years.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/06/28 17:33:36


'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




UK

I'm only surprised they didn't sneak the Son's tome and model out as well considering its just one kit ( as far as we are ware at this stage).

Of course a lower model count week makes sense production wise; chances are GW is gearing up and trying their best to keep 40K stuff in stock as much as they can for the new edition launch.

   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Ghaz wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Well it was now or later half of august earlier. Guess gw wanted to give aos something before weeks of 40k focus

The General's Handbook 2017 was released in August of 2017. The General's Handbook 2018 and the General's Handbook 2019 came out in June of their respective years.


Well then this wasn't that unexpected. Only slightly off from previous 2

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
4663
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
 
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