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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 03:45:07
Subject: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Foul Dwimmerlaik
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Taken from Warseer who in turn has taken this from Bolter and Chainsword. Here’s another attempt to summarize the rumors surrounding the new Blood Angel rules reported for release in the next few months. Again, please take this for what it’s worth. Note also that I have removed those rumors that seem to have been discounted or failed to receive further confirmation. Publication - The new rules will be included with the June/July (possibly May/June) issues of White Dwarf – pretty well confirmed by US WD 328 to be included in issues 329 & 330. * The first issue will include the Fluff and the second issue will include the army list.
- The rules will be available for free download sometime thereafter.
- These rules are a temporary “update” not a full codex release.
FluffChanges - The new fluff will emphasize the BA’s progressing descent into madness and the degenerative effects of their gene flaw.
Army Special Rule Changes - BA infantry will no longer automatically receive the Furious Charge special rule.
- The Black Rage will no longer force mandatory movement, i.e. the 1/6 chance of running D6” forward.
- BA infantry units will receive the Combat Squads special rule.
Death Company Changes - DC are no longer mandatory for all BA armies.
- Max DC squad size is 10 models.
- 1 DC marine can be added to the squad for every Honour Guard, Vet Assault, Assault, Terminator, Tactical and Devastator squad in the army (either 5 or 10 man strong, doesn’t matter).
- Extra DC can also be added for an additional point cost.
- The infantry unit that contributes a marine to the Death Company will not have to “lose a model” to do so.
- DC marines will not be able to have power weapons but all will gain rending attacks in close combat.
- For an additional point cost, the DC squad can be given jump packs, a Rhino or a Drop Pod.
- DC will be forced to move towards and assault the nearest enemy unit unless a Chaplain or SHP is within 6”, this rule is aka the “Black Rage.”
Overcharged Engines - Will be included on Rhinos and Baal Predators
- When employed on a 4+ the engines will make these tanks count as Fast vehicles, moving up to 18”.
Changes to Special Characters and Units - Corbuolo will grant Furious Charge to all infantry models within 12”.
- BA Librarians will gain a new psychic power that will increase an infantry unit’s movement to 12” and jump infantry unit’s move to include a turbo boost.
- Mephiston will be able to use his Force Weapon and another Psychic Power in the same turn.
Army List Changes - Vet Assault units can employ Jump Packs or Rhinos.
- They have 2 attacks on their stat line.
- The can take up to 3 powered CC weapons: power weapons, lightning claws or power fists.
- Honour Guard will include a “tech adept” character along with the other choices.
(No additional information there.) - Assault Marines will be a Troop or Fast choice for all BA armies.
- Assault squads will alternately be able to take Rhinos or Drop Pods (like their DA equivalents)
- All Dreadnoughts will be Elite choices.
- Scouts will be an Elite choice with no special CC limitation, i.e. they can all be equipped with the full assortment of scout options.
- BA Whirlwinds will include incendiary rounds.
New Models? - Some character models will be re-released.
- There will not be any new models or plastic sprues. (yet...)
UPDATE! This was also gleaned from warseer and posted elsewhere in this thread. I am reposting it here for the sake of reference. Posted By blood angel on 04/22/2007 2:33 AM Taken from warseer. There was also a link in the post that seemed to show the WD article. Until i get the issue in my hands and can read it all myself i'm taking everything with the appropriate grains of salt but here goes.. Im not gonna post the picture here so click on the link to see the cover.. You'll notice it's not taken on a camera phone or anything, I actually have the whole 2 part codex I dont think BA are gonna get another codex based on the wording there if you can read it.. As it says this is the official codex, not update Wargear changes Exsanguinator - Description replaced with current narthecium rules. Nothing additional Terminator armor - Same except no longer gives +1A (Same as new DA and there are no terminator honors, which means characters are at -1A) Servo arm - Same as Codex: Sm but IT IS NOT A POWER FIST.. It "strikes at I1 at S8 with no armor save" Therefore, cover/grenades affects it Special CHaracters Commander Dante - 200pts WS6, BS5, S4, T4, W3, I5, A4, LD10 SV 2+ Rights of battle Inspiring: All friendly BA models within 12" count as having preferring enemy (Vs anyone) Equipment: Artificer armor, iron halo, jump pack, frag and krak grenades Axe of Mortalis - Master crafted power weapon Death mask of sanguinius - All enemy models within 6" are at -1WS and -1BS Perdition Pistol - Metal gun that counts as pistol in CC If dante is included in the army then a standard bearer may carry the BA chapter banner which gives all benefits of the normal standard and also gives the unit +1A. +15pts Tycho - Normal stats, has iron halo and artificer armor and basically is same as old edition.. IE sucks. 110pts and rights of battle Mephiston - 225pts WS 6, BS5, S5, T5, W3, I6, A4, LD10 SV 2+ Fearless, Feel no pain Lord of Death - Mephiston has all 3 psychic powers and can use each one of them and his force weapon once each player turn, rather than being limited as are other librarians. He may not use the same power more than once per turn Wargear: Artificer armor, force weapon, plasma pistol, psychic hood, frag and krak grenades LIRBARIAN POWERS Might of Heros - same Wings of Sanguinius - The librarian (only him) may move as a jump pack, even with terminator armor. If on a bike he counts as moving as a jetbike Transfixing Glare - Used in the assault phase. If successful then any enemy model in BTB contact must take a LD test. If failed the model may not attack and will be hit automatically by any CC attacks directed against them. Enemy models with a LD value cannot be affected Brother corbulo - Same as old edition except 3wounds 100pts no power weapon and has exsanguinator and the red grail Red Grail : All BA units within 12" At the start of one of its assault phases receives furious charge for that turn. In addition it gives corbulo a 4+ inv save Chaplain Lamartes - 125pts Same stats as current 3W chaplain Has the Death mask which gives all enemy models within 6" -1LD Non-named characters (all have 2w and LD9) Librarian - 120pts Has rights of battle Options: Plasma pistol, stormbolter, combi weapons, melta bombs, bike. Can replace ALL wargear for terminator armor, storm bolter, force weapon and psychic hood for 25pts. NO OPTION for inv save except with Term armor Cannot take Transfixing glare but comes with other two powers as standard Chaplain - 100pts Same options as librarian but may take a power fist and a jump pack Company Captain (3W and L10) - 100pts Comes with Iron Halo Rights of Battle Options: Power weapon, 1 or 2 LCs, Thunder hammer, Power fist, jump pack, storm bolter, combi weapons, melta bombs OR may take Term Armor WITH Thunderhammer + Stormshield, 2x LC or Stormbolter + Power fist/Power weapon all for only +25PTs Honor guard - 125pts Does not take up spot on force org chart AND IS NOT A BODYGUARD. They deploy and operate independently. May include 1 for each IC in army 2A now and come with frag/krak grenades 5 marines (max) Jump packs +25pts (entire squad) (30pts per model basically) Options: (a ton. Think of this as a imp guard command squad in terms of options. 2 guys can have this, 2 can have that.. etc). 2x Plasma Pistol 2x Powerfist/weapon 2x Flamer/melta/plasma Sanguinary Priest for +20pts with exsanguinator Tech Adept +30pt (No servo arm btw). Power weapon and blessing of omnissiah rule Standard bearer +10pts company champion +25pts. power weapon + combat shield Meltbombs on a per model basis +5pts ELITES The Death company - Counts towards force org. Do not have to take same stats. Rending, Furious Charge, Feel no pain, fearless. Must move as fast as possible towards enemy unless chaplain or Corbulo are within 6". They have krak grenades as well Pretty much same as rumors have stated. You get 1 free DC per following squads Honor Guard Terminator Squad Veteran Assault Squad Tactical Squad Devastator Squad Jump packs +5pts per model Additional guys +30pts May have rhino or drop pod at point cost Models equipped with power fists or power weapons may count them as normal CC weapons with rending Terminator Squad - 200pts 5 men (max) entire squad may swap weapons for 2x LC or Thunderhammer/storm shield or may replace one term with the cyclone +20pts, Heavy flamer +5pts (lol), Assault cannon +30pts Can take a drop pod Furioso Dreadnaught - 100pts Venerable +20pts Death company dread +25pts (+D3 attacks and moves like death company) heavy flamer +5pts extra armor +15pts comes with smoke and searchlight May take a drop pod Dreadnaught - 125pts Assault cannon, CCW, smoke and searchlight Venerable +20pts Missile launcher +10pts Multimelta, TL- Auto cannon - free Tl- Las +20pts Extra armor +15pts May take drop pod Tech Marine - 125pts (ouch) NOT INDEPENDENT CHARACTER Does NOT use up force org slot. May take 1 per vehicle chosen from elites or heavy support same stats, except comes with artificer armor Options - Plasma pistol, servo harness +25pts Servitors - 0-4 25pts each with Servo arm, CCW (Not Powerfist). May replace with multimelta or HB for free, Plasma cannon +10pts (no restriction) Ws4, Bs4, S3, T3, W1, i3, a1, ld9, sv 4+ May select rhino, razorback or drop pod Veteran Assault squad - 150pts 2A and combat squads Jump packs included The squad may include up to 5 additional vets for +25pts each (and combat squads? odd) 0-3 - stormbolter, combi weapon, plasma pistol/power weapon, power fist/single LC, 2x LC or thunder hammer Anyone can take combat shield +5pts or stormshield +10pts 0-2 - Flamer/melta/plasma Per model basis: Melta bombs +5pts Note: Above options replace EITHER bolt pistol OR chainsword so you can replace Chainsword with power weapon AND bolt pistol with flamer May remove jump packs and have rhino or drop pod for no point cost Scout Squad - 80pts combat squads vet sarg included 5 additional scouts +65pts Options: same as Da codex. Sarg may take melta bombs Shotguns: R:12, S:4, Ap:-, Assault 2 MAY TAKE DROP POD TROOPS Assault Squad - 140pts Vet sarg included Same options as DA basically. Sarg can have combat shield and melta bombs May remove jump packs and take rhino or drop pod for free Tactical squad - 115pts Same as DA codex May take drop pod, rhino or razorback FAST ATTACK Bike squad - 110pts 2 bikes + 1 vet sarg No combat squads 0-2 bikers +30pts vet sarg may have power sword (no fist) and/or melta bombs 0-2 Flamer/melta/plasma Attack Bikes - 50pts HB or multimelta 1 bike 0-2 additional bikes +50pts Land Speed Squadron - 65pts Hb or Multimelta 0-2 additional speeders +65pts 0-1 Typhoon launcher +10pts 0-2 Heavy flamer +10pts or assault cannon +35pts HEAVY SUPPORT Devestators - 115pts Combat squads Options same as DA codex may have rhino, drop pod, razorback Land raider - 250pts Its a land raider. options: Pintle storm bolter 5pts, hunter killer missile +15pts, extra armor +15pts Land raider crusader - 250pts (no limit) Its still a land raider and has crusader weapons. same options as land raider Whirlwind - 85pts Vengeance Missiles Incendiary Castellan Options: Dozer blade, extra armor, pintle storm bolter, hunter killer Predator - 70pts Options : See whirlwind TL - Las + 35pts HB Sponsons +25pts, Lascannons +60pts Vindicator - 125pts Same as previous edition, same options as other vehicles Baal Predator - 100pts Overcharged engines (1 - Cannot move. 2-3 nothing, 4+ vehicle is Fast and can move max of 18" ) Pintle stormbolter +10pts, Hunter killer +15pts. NO EXTRA ARMOR HB or heavy flamers +25pts Rhino - 40pts Over charged engines same as DA codex Razorback - 50pts TL Las +30pts Normal vehicle options Drop pod - 50pts No missile launcher option -------- A few notes: I didnt post point costs for many options because they're same as codex space marines (No discount for being single wound model tho) and no real point to repeat point costs for items everyone knows the pt costs for However, items like flamers are basically half the cost currently. 5pts for every squad basically. Sorry I just really dont wanna post pt values for every item or option as its fairly easy to know what they are. Also just assume every vehicle has smoke and search lights and all the marines have frak/krak/BP and bolters. I added it for some and didnt for others, but they all have them
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 03:57:25
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon
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Sigh. Combat squads again. That and the increased focus on Special Characters. (I don't mind them, but it gets annoying when they start becoming mandatory for many army designs - ala Lysander, Eldrad, Corbuolo, etc.)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 04:08:34
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Fixture of Dakka
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I don't like that they turned this army on it's head, but then again it did need a huge change. One thing that worries me though is that with assault squads as both troops and fast attack, and the death company, and combat squads that means that there can be 22 units of jump pack troops hopping around. Yeah, I know it would be almost a 2,500 poiunt army. If they all had melta bombs that could be one of the best armies for taking out mech eldar or mech Tau. They wouldn't have anywhere to run.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 04:09:23
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Omnipotent Lord of Change
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Hmm, looks like Blood Angels might be moving back to the top o' the heap. Lots of good looking stuff here, I think combat squads is the only update I don't like or see too much potential in. Saw rending on the DC and loss of FC coming, but I dig how the DC is 'purchased' and how overcharged engines works (but ... fast baal preds? As in, can move faster and still shoot all weapons for maximum death) and the new BA librarion power is nifty x2! I agree with Asmodai 100% on the special characters as mandatory, though I also do like what Corbulo does now - Boss Salvage
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 05:17:09
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Dakka Veteran
Pirate Ship Revenge
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"Fast" Baal Predators?!? That's kinda cool. Maybe someone, somewhere will take the Heavy Flamers now. It looks like a BA Librarain will be a must have. I like what I see. This army will be blisteringly fast again.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 05:27:15
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Phanobi
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Posted By Asmodai on 04/16/2007 8:57 AM Sigh. Combat squads again. That and the increased focus on Special Characters. (I don't mind them, but it gets annoying when they start becoming mandatory for many army designs - ala Lysander, Eldrad, Corbuolo, etc.) If you are playing an established Chapter, they have named characters. And if you are playing a successor chapter, then you have Chief Librarian Whatshisname of the BA Successors. I still don't see why this is a problem. Ozymandias, King of Kings
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings. Look on My works, Ye Mighty, and despair.
Chris Gohlinghorst wrote:Holy Space Marine on a Stick.
This conversation has even begun to boggle my internet-hardened mind.
A More Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 05:43:52
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
Maple Valley, Washington, Holy Terra
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Yes, you notice how Jervis very patiently explained how to use "counts as" special characters in the DA codex. Just think of it as an independent character with very limited wargear options.
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"Calgar hates Tyranids."
Your #1 Fan |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 06:16:57
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Dakka Veteran
Pirate Ship Revenge
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I'm thrilled that I'll be able to use the 4 lascannon 10 man devastator squad I made. That was the dumbest idea I ever had. See GW rules changes go both ways. They make previously stupid choices that you modeled anyway useful! I love the no more manditory move, the fact that they no longer get furious charge for "free" and the fact that DC are still sort of "free". I'm looking forward to this. It may do for mr what the DA codex didn't.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 06:35:27
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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I welcome anything they do unless the list becomes a "White Dwarf fast fast killy killy quasi official" -list everyone is itching about. Try to kill those things off. Only chance would be to release a Blood Angel Codex quick then...And this ain't a good thing imo.
But as far everything looks quite good.
Greets Schepp himself
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40k:
Fantasy: Skaven, Vampires |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 07:14:53
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon
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Posted By Zubbiefish on 04/16/2007 11:16 AM That was the dumbest idea I ever had. See GW rules changes go both ways. They make previously stupid choices that you modeled anyway useful! GW has stated in the past that the best way to future-proof your army is to buy two of every option.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 08:06:46
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Unbalanced Fanatic
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I like the emphasis on jump pack troops and the enhancing librarians. That seems very in line with the character of the army, plus it gets rid of the bullcrap random sized Death Company. So maybe I'm missing something, but what does the black rage do? Does it prevent the troops from shooting or what?
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The 21st century will have a number of great cities. You’ll choose between cities of great population density and those that are like series of islands in the forest. - Bernard Tschumi |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 08:17:24
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
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So that goes back to my original question of can the Dev squads/terminators/etc buy skills as per normal? Can Dreads get their choice?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 08:17:28
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Brotherhood of Blood
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I would like to see a genuine assault army again that can actually win by assaulting. Almost all the builds I have seen are pure shoot it down before it crosses the board with a few counter assault units. Kind of stagnant right now for assault based armies.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 08:31:17
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Bear in mind these are all rumors. Just putting in a list in WD would be extremely contradictory to their stated policy of wacking all things content. We may just as likely see a glorified add with the re-release of their two characters. And thats it. Edit: It would be great if this occurred though, we'll have to see.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 08:45:53
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Clousseau
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Smells like 2nd ed. mischief...
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Guinness: for those who are men of the cloth and football fans, but not necessarily in that order.
I think the lesson here is the best way to enjoy GW's games is to not use any of their rules.--Crimson Devil |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 09:01:35
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Most Glorious Grey Seer
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BA infantry units will receive the Combat Squads special rule. Le sigh...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 09:27:37
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
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I for one am rather interested to see which, if any, of these changes makes it into the codex.
Regarding the 'fast' Baal pattern preds and rhinos, sadly it will not let that vehicle shoot it's weaponry if it moves that far. Bear in mind, that any tracked/non-skimmer vehicle that isn't a walker may not fire any weapons, primary or defensive, if it moves over 6". So if you roll your Baal predator 18" forwards using OCE it's only option is to pop smoke. I could be wrong about that, as I don't have my BBB in front of me to check it, but I'm fairly certain that's how it works. *knocks on wood*
In any event. Things I see that I like:
Combat Squads: I like this, as I run 10 man tactical squads anyway. Having a new way to field them is only icing on the cake.
Assault Squads: I don't know how I feel about them being a troops option. I have a feeling that this is little more than a rumor, and isn't a real possibility. My reasoning for this is that it would make BA very very powerful when combined with a SHP/Chaplain, the 'new' rending DC which may or may not have ignore injury any longer, and a JP Librarian rolling around with them, giving them stupid amounts of bonus movement. I expect BA to have Tactical Squads as troop choices and that's it. Just like DA.
Regarding scouts, I like how they are elites now as well, and that they do not contribute to DC any longer (according to this rumor)
The veteran assualt squad might (FINALLY!) be worth looking into, 2 attack stat-line across the board with the option of putting jump packs and a few pair of lightning claws in the squad might make me want to field a 5 man squad as a focal point of my assault force. Who knows.
As for the DC, I like the fact that there is a cap on them now, and that you don't have to worry about losing models out of a squad for DC any longer. The option of having a ten man squad of DC without having to field ten different squads (combat squads, mind you) is also cool. I think I'm most surprised at the total removal of power weapons and power-fists from the DC, and replacing the option with rending. On the surface that seems a step to make the DC even more powerful than they already are (assuming they don't lose ignore injury, etc) but who knows.
I'm not totally happy with everything I'm seeing, but there is potential here. I'll reserve a full judgment until I see the 'finished' product in WD over the next few months.
Take it easy everyone.
-RT-
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You don't know me son, so I'll explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 09:41:14
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Most Glorious Grey Seer
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Combat Squads: I like this, as I run 10 man tactical squads anyway. Having a new way to field them is only icing on the cake. Razorbacks can take six guys. I rather like maxing out their transport capacity when I load them up. With combat squads it's wasted space unless I stick an IC in there with the squad. But then it's still likely to be wasted space. After all, how many IC's can you really have in an army?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 09:44:51
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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All Jump Pack army---- EXALT!!! Eldar do not have a the monopoly on mobility anymore. 22 Point Assault Marine > 22 Point Jetbike?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 09:47:41
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Abhorrent Grotesque Aberration
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Of all the complaints I have seen about combat squads, that one strikes me as funny. What happens when a guy dies, do they never get back in because they can't fill it upl? I like the more rigid structure of combat squads. To me it seems more marine, and the ability to make more scoring units out of less is great in some missions. Hurts a lot in escalation with vehicles though. I do like it better overall though. Assault as troops? I really hope there is some other limiting factor to that. Have to take something specific to get that or something.
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 09:59:09
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Tunneling Trygon
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Assault as troops? I really hope there is some other limiting factor to that. Have to take something specific to get that or something. Umm, how about combat squads and all the other nerfs to assault squads in the DA codex? I mean, how much does a 10 man DA assault squad cost? Also note the other nerfs in DA codex that will probably apply to BA: You can't take 6 or 8 man units, power fist vet costs more overall, may not have flamer option like now, etc. Plus, you can already take 3 FA and 3 elite now. The only thing you gain by having assault squads as troops is you don't lose speeders slots to take assault squads (and this is then balanced by a likely icreased cost in speeders). Regarding the 'fast' Baal pattern preds and rhinos, sadly it will not let that vehicle shoot it's weaponry if it moves that far. Bear in mind, that any tracked/non-skimmer vehicle that isn't a walker may not fire any weapons, primary or defensive, if it moves over 6". You are confusing 'skimmers' with 'fast vehicles'. They are not the same thing. A non-skimmer can certainly be categorized as 'fast' and be able to shoot when moving 12" or less (but yes movig 18" and shooting won't be legal).
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snoogums: "Just because something is not relavant doesn't mean it goes away completely."
Iorek: "Snoogums, you're right. Your arguments are irrelevant, and they sure as heck aren't going away." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 11:48:26
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Fresh-Faced New User
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For the most part,I like how the BA rules changes sound. The cap on the Death Company size is great,because I've faced DC numbering about 20 models in big games. It's also great that they have to actually pay for their jump packs now,instead of just being given to them for free. The fact that the DC isn't mandatory anymore also makes me wonder if you have to pay points to have one in the first place. After all,if you're not having to pull models out of your squads,and you didn't have to take DC,who wouldn't take DC? Yeah,a 10-man DC with Rending and Feel No Pain sounds vicious,but it looks like they may be losing "Furious Assault." That,along with having to actually pay points to fill out the squad and purchase Jump Packs or a Rhino seems to balance them out. Some people are going to hate on Combat Squads 'til the end of time,but they make sense for Marine armies. Hopefully,they'll do away with the min/maxed SW/HW 5-man squads like they did with DA. Changing Black Rage will also make units like Devastators and Tac. Squads with Heavy Weapons viable again.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 13:15:10
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Tunneling Trygon
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Hard to get a real read without points costs. Could be a major nerf, could even be a boost (which would be lunatic).
I'm definitely not happy about them releasing this in WD. Release a Codex, or don't. Once upon a time this would have been more understandable, but they've stopped doing Chapter Approved articles in WD. Doing this now is stupid. It just creates too much confusion.
I'd be much happier if they make using the old rules optional... But then that means the new rules would have to be at least as strong as the old ones, or people just won't use them.
As far as balance goes, at first, these looked like a brutal nerf... When I see "Combat Squads" I think of the Dark Angels Codex, and I am reminded that I've decided to not do any painting or purchasing until a new Codex comes out, even though I'm currently working on Eldar. My stupid little free market protest. But then there's some stuff that almost sounds like they're getting even more powerful...
The DC all have Rending? Without running the numbers, I think I'd rather have 10 guys with Rending than 2 with P Fists and the rest without, especially when combined with Furious Charge, and the massive number of attacks DC get. So that's nice. Also, not having to lose models also promotes taking Terminators and other high cost models. Suddenly I'm not so sad I painted a squad of LC Terms (and never intended to use them). The 10 man limit is a bit of a pain, since I typically get 10+ out of my list.
Taking Furious Charge and Black Rage away really strips a lot of the fluff, and I don't like it. Blood Angels should have Furious Charge. Just cost it so it's fair. Black Rage certainly doesn't offset the power of Furious Charge. Many times Black Rage is a benefit, in fact... But the BAs should all have Furious Charge, and should be costed appropriately. Just make it work.
Combat Squads really suck, but being able to give them a 12" move is great. It'll depend on the cost here. If the Librarian is an overpriced chump, it won't be so great, but being able to make any squad go 12" on an as needed basis... That's big. Just depends how they write the rules and how the cost the power. If he has to join the unit, and it costs 50 points... Bleh... But if he can effect a unit a ways away...
The Vet Assault squads are worthless under the current rules. Give them what these rules describe, 2A base, 3 Power weapons... They'd have to cost a LOT not to still be a real no-brainer unit. A 25 point Power Fist is pretty crap, but if you can get more than one in a jump squad, it's worth the premium price to get them packed in where they can do the most hurt.
All in all, my confidence has been terribly shaken by the DA Codex. Shaken like nothing GW has done before... That makes me very leery... So, while I expect a nerf of Blood Angels, and accept it's appropriate, I won't accept is another DA type rewrite, with poorly thought out rules, inexplicable nerfs, and general suck.
The usual stuff applies. I will definitely be very annoyed if my models become unusable as well. I have squad markings on my 6-man tac squads, and that sounds like it's already going out the window. More than that, and I'll be irritated.
I dunno, we'll see how it goes.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 14:10:45
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot
In your house, rummaging through your underwear drawer
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How many points will Kharn be?
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"Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow"~Oscar Wilde |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 14:46:50
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon
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"The usual stuff applies. I will definitely be very annoyed if my models become unusable as well. I have squad markings on my 6-man tac squads, and that sounds like it's already going out the window. More than that, and I'll be irritated."
That was my complaint about DA too.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 16:06:19
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant
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It will be nice if we get the option for 30 pt rhinos to act as mobile cover for our 5 assault squads.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 17:01:39
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
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I just had a realization of crazy-bad-nastiness....
So Death Company have 4 attacks each when they charge, all of which are rending. Now, imagine if you have a Chaplain attached to the squad....
Imagine the following scenario.
"Ok, my ten man death company squad is charging your *insert enemy squad here*. That's 40 rending attacks at ST:4, I:4....Oh wait! I forgot I had a Chaplain attached to my Death Company. He'll be swinging last with his power-fist. Let me go ahead and roll the 40 rending attacks and then REROLL the failed to-hit dice, giving me even MORE possible rending hits."
Sure against models with higher initiative like Gene Stealers, Harlies, some of the DC will still get punked down before they typically swing...but cripes the thought of what I just described gave me goosebumps.
I'm very interested to see which of these rumored changes is true. That much is certain.
Take it easy everyone.
-RT-
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You don't know me son, so I'll explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 17:14:47
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant
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Yep, being able to fish for 6's seems to be the new BA trademark with twin assault cannons and now 4 attack death company. I'm not terribly pleased about that. I'd really rather see each member of the DC (or at least the three that should come standard with a chaplain as part of his retinue) be able to be geared like any other vet sarg with customizable equipment.
Without random DC generation it will allow for certain until to be played, like terminators but it won't stop people from padding their lists with squads to get extra DC.
Really, there isn't much that I would change about the current Blood Angels other than changing how the death company are generated. It should be bought like any other squad to clear up any scoring questions and mostly so people stop complaining. I'd probably run with a full 10 man squad no matter how much they cost though, heh.
Sadly I'd probably make the Baal 0-1 choice as well but make the furiosos more accessible and go ahead and give them the rules that Moriar uses.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 17:59:00
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne
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The thing about padding their pists with squads is that if it follows the DA precedent, buying a bunch of 5-man squads will cost a reasonable amount more than if you filled those same squads out to 10 men then split them into 2 combat squads.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/04/16 23:01:47
Subject: RE: More Blood Angels rumours.
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RogueSangre
The Cockatrice Malediction
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Posted By Jester on 04/16/2007 7:10 PM How many points will Kharn be? Yeah. What the hell? Blood Angels are supposed to be a codex chapter with a slight leaning towards assault and geneseed flaw that causes them to flip out sometimes. These rules look like World Eaters. And wtf is up with rending Death Company? So they totally flip out and this gives them the ability to rip through Land Raider armor with their bare hands? That's slowed. Posted By Red__Thirst on 04/16/2007 10:01 PM So Death Company have 4 attacks each when they charge, all of which are rending. Now, imagine if you have a Chaplain attached to the squad.... Better yet, if you charge something with a really high Weapon Skill (like a Bloodthirster) you hit on 5+ and thus get more rerolls and more rends.
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