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 d-usa wrote:
So if Hillary just said “oops”, then we never would have had chants of “lock her up” and nobody would still be going “but the emails”.

Was HRC accused of election violation s? I did not know that. Learn something every day.

 Frazzled wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
So if Hillary just said “oops”, then we never would have had chants of “lock her up” and nobody would still be going “but the emails”.

Was HRC accused of election violation s? I did not know that. Learn something every day.

So the answer is no, thanks.

 Vaktathi wrote:
It...it's like Giuliani is intentionally trying to sink Trump...

All I know is that the addition of Guiliani to this...everything...is like throwing gasoline on a fire. Things are going to get even weirder, wronger and more entertaining now.

... Daniels not the only one who received payments then ?

 reds8n wrote:


... Daniels not the only one who received payments then ?

Wait until the payment of $500k to Mr Not Pu Tin for a VHS tape comes out.

It really makes me wonder if this is just taking advantage of the high lawyer turnover/complete lack of vetting for anyone in the admin. to place someone on the legal team specifically to sink Trump.

Maybe that should be in the conspiracy theories thread instead?

 gorgon wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
It...it's like Giuliani is intentionally trying to sink Trump...

All I know is that the addition of Guiliani to this...everything...is like throwing gasoline on a fire. Things are going to get even weirder, wronger and more entertaining now.

Indeed, though I'd pass in the entertainment for the peace of mind that someone competent is running things

But speaking of weirder, wronger, and more entertaining, now it is being reported that calls between Cohen and the WH were intercepted as part of taps put in Cohen's phone, and that Trump still personally called Cohen even after the raid before Giuliani told him that was really dumb.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/feds-tapped-trump-lawyer-michael-cohen-s-phones-n871011

 reds8n wrote:


... Daniels not the only one who received payments then ?

Hey, stuff happens and whaddya gonna do?

 reds8n wrote:


... Daniels not the only one who received payments then ?

This could get fun!

 Da Boss wrote:
I vividly remember the whole Clinton-Lewinski ordeal. I remember how the Republicans went after Clinton, the entire climate. At the time I remember being very disappointed with Clinton (And he was popular here due to his engagement with the Peace Process, I'd say he's the most popular American president in Ireland). I thought cheating on his wife was so dishonest, and I thought lying about it was really shady too. I did feel that it probably wasn't worth pursuing the way it was pursued, but I do clearly remember thinking he was a bad person for doing it.

Now, here we have a Republican President who is quite obviously as sleazy if not far sleazier. What do we hear from his party? Nothing. What do we hear from it's supporters? A tired shrug. What do we hear from Trump's supporters? Justifications and bile.

It's just staggering to me that the entire thing is so obviously completely hollow. There's so little moral standing, so little principle, it's absolutely rotten. I'm filled with contempt and disgust.

Honestly, I think the Dave Chappelle bit on Clinton is spot on (in short, he makes a long joke saying basically "of course he was gonna lie, his wife is right there!!")

The truly sad thing (in my mind) is the friends that I have on that side of the aisle defending trump by saying "ohh, trump did this 11 years ago, that's WAAAAAAAAAAY different than Clinton" and It's not just my friends saying this, I see it from other strangers on various social media as well.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 feeder wrote:
Trump now remembers paying Daniels, but still denies affair. He was being shaken down.
Sauce

Trump is such a good negotiator (who never settles out of court, remember) that it only cost him $130k to pay for someone to not say something that didn't happen happened.

Indeed. The best deal in the history of deals, maybe ever.

Does anyone remember when someone tried to extort David Letterman in the same fashion?

Late night talk show hosts handle pressure better than the president.

 Da Boss wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
I vividly remember the whole Clinton-Lewinski ordeal. I remember how the Republicans went after Clinton, the entire climate. At the time I remember being very disappointed with Clinton (And he was popular here due to his engagement with the Peace Process, I'd say he's the most popular American president in Ireland). I thought cheating on his wife was so dishonest, and I thought lying about it was really shady too. I did feel that it probably wasn't worth pursuing the way it was pursued, but I do clearly remember thinking he was a bad person for doing it.

Now, here we have a Republican President who is quite obviously as sleazy if not far sleazier. What do we hear from his party? Nothing. What do we hear from it's supporters? A tired shrug. What do we hear from Trump's supporters? Justifications and bile.

It's just staggering to me that the entire thing is so obviously completely hollow. There's so little moral standing, so little principle, it's absolutely rotten. I'm filled with contempt and disgust.

Agreed. Turns out Clinton's "basket of deplorables" was spot-on.

While I would love to add something, going into this direction will only result in hostile denial and the inevitable thread lock.

I'm not 100% sure on the supporter angle, but I suppose I just expect better of public representatives. I know it's fashionable to be apocalyptically cynical about them, but I think they should be held to a higher standard. As to the supporters, well, sure. There's racists and misogynists of various stripes and levels of intensity, but there's also a lot of them that just disbelieve anything that doesn't fit what they already think and who get their information from utterly cynically biased sources. None of us are immune to that. So I'm angry about people like that, but I don't think politicians throwing language like that around is good in the general case. In specific cases it is more appropriate, but I think it wasn't really respectable to do that in the election. Somewhat similar to Romney's 48% gaffe.

There are differences between a Trumpalous supporter vs. people voting "not Hillary".

The fact that the latter and especially the former would be a bit defensive over the vote is understandable.

But, in either case, one can say that "the affair is yucky"... and still support el Trumpo. The obvious "I told you so" glee over the affair, is also yucky.

So, all these outlandish (non-illegal) things that Trump deservedly gets dinged for... many are not surprising to those el Trumpo voters. If it did, that Access Hollywood tape would've sinked him for good.

And weirdly, this intense focus on shaming Trump's voters instead of figuring out why the GOP party was so ripe for takeover is frankly, bizarre. Seems like the parties, media and the old guard is doomed to repeat this madness.

It is fair to talk about the same people who criticized Hillary for standing by Bill who nevertheless don’t criticize Trump for his affairs and paying people off to shut them up and then lying about it.

.. is Guiliani still your cybersecurity adviser at the moment ?

and if so ...


why is Guiliani still your cybersecurity adviser at the moment ?

 whembly wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
I vividly remember the whole Clinton-Lewinski ordeal. I remember how the Republicans went after Clinton, the entire climate. At the time I remember being very disappointed with Clinton (And he was popular here due to his engagement with the Peace Process, I'd say he's the most popular American president in Ireland). I thought cheating on his wife was so dishonest, and I thought lying about it was really shady too. I did feel that it probably wasn't worth pursuing the way it was pursued, but I do clearly remember thinking he was a bad person for doing it.

Now, here we have a Republican President who is quite obviously as sleazy if not far sleazier. What do we hear from his party? Nothing. What do we hear from it's supporters? A tired shrug. What do we hear from Trump's supporters? Justifications and bile.

It's just staggering to me that the entire thing is so obviously completely hollow. There's so little moral standing, so little principle, it's absolutely rotten. I'm filled with contempt and disgust.

Agreed. Turns out Clinton's "basket of deplorables" was spot-on.

While I would love to add something, going into this direction will only result in hostile denial and the inevitable thread lock.

I'm not 100% sure on the supporter angle, but I suppose I just expect better of public representatives. I know it's fashionable to be apocalyptically cynical about them, but I think they should be held to a higher standard. As to the supporters, well, sure. There's racists and misogynists of various stripes and levels of intensity, but there's also a lot of them that just disbelieve anything that doesn't fit what they already think and who get their information from utterly cynically biased sources. None of us are immune to that. So I'm angry about people like that, but I don't think politicians throwing language like that around is good in the general case. In specific cases it is more appropriate, but I think it wasn't really respectable to do that in the election. Somewhat similar to Romney's 48% gaffe.

There are differences between a Trumpalous supporter vs. people voting "not Hillary".

The fact that the latter and especially the former would be a bit defensive over the vote is understandable.

But, in either case, one can say that "the affair is yucky"... and still support el Trumpo. The obvious "I told you so" glee over the affair, is also yucky.

So, all these outlandish (non-illegal) things that Trump deservedly gets dinged for... many are not surprising to those el Trumpo voters. If it did, that Access Hollywood tape would've sinked him for good.

And weirdly, this intense focus on shaming Trump's voters instead of figuring out why the GOP party was so ripe for takeover is frankly, bizarre. Seems like the parties, media and the old guard is doomed to repeat this madness.

Probably because most people, especially after trumps election, realize that the GOP is dead and at this point we are waiting for the stinking corpse to explode

 whembly wrote:
And weirdly, this intense focus on shaming Trump's voters instead of figuring out why the GOP party was so ripe for takeover is frankly, bizarre. Seems like the parties, media and the old guard is doomed to repeat this madness.

There has been lots of debate. My takeaway from all of that debate is that Trump is the end result of the part 20-ish years of the GOP eschewing workable policy in favour of lies, whataboutism and victimhood.

 d-usa wrote:
It is fair to talk about the same people who criticized Hillary for standing by Bill who nevertheless don’t criticize Trump for his affairs and paying people off to shut them up and then lying about it.

Of course its fair.

I think when we all look back at this ordeal... we can only shake our heads at how we've all lost our minds... eh?

 reds8n wrote:
.. is Guiliani still your cybersecurity adviser at the moment ?

and if so ...


why is Guiliani still your cybersecurity adviser at the moment ?

He's 'good on TV'?

?

 feeder wrote:

 whembly wrote:
And weirdly, this intense focus on shaming Trump's voters instead of figuring out why the GOP party was so ripe for takeover is frankly, bizarre. Seems like the parties, media and the old guard is doomed to repeat this madness.

There has been lots of debate. My takeaway from all of that debate is that Trump is the end result of the part 20-ish years of the GOP eschewing workable policy in favour of lies, whataboutism and victimhood.

Here’s the thing, its primarily about 2 things regarding the GOP voters...

The Democrats and complicit media (but I repeat myself ) have done and will blatantly hammer every republican president. If you think they wouldn’t give a President Fiorina the Palin treatment or President Romney/Rubio/Cruz the Dubya treatment, you haven’t been paying attention. And ever since they painted Romney as a immoral, misogynist, Nazi, it became obvious that’s the only way any agenda is going to even get off the ground is to elect some outsider who not only mind the political mud slinging... but, revels in it.

The GOP political elite themselves only have themselves to blame why Trump got the nomination, because a plurality of the GOP primary voters didn't want the same sort of empty GOP suits.

Then, the democrats nominated Hillary Clinton.

This is why Trump happened, and why this absolutely crazy stuff that would normally doom any other candidate... is ineffective to his base (see my MO governor...he's going down, but if it were Trump, his voters would shrug). He was elected with everyone knowing who the man is, so all this crap is baked in the cake. It’s all already been revealed, and deemed immaterial to the mission.

These are the rules that was imposed on us. You can hate the game, but if you hate the player you aren’t going to win...because in this case, the low brow gak isn't going to bring down Trump, because he'll drag every one of us with him.

Trump's weakness isn't his cad behaviors or even the Russian Collusion (boy has that sure dropped of the map)... but, the policies he's pushing. You can make a better argument against the taxs cut (just not Pelosi's "crumbs" argument...jeez)...and can even make the case that he's seriously stacking the judicial system with his picks. But, to make your case 24/7 that it's Stormey Daniels or some playboy playmate is going to get Trump impeached and removed from office??

Expect a lot of eye-rolling from the crowd and the Trumpalous high-fiving that "my President banged playmates and pornstars"....

No. You cannot blame the democrats for trump.

The reason trump happened is because the GOP moved away from actually bothering to have any policies beyond "democrats bad!". If the GOP hadn't spent years teaching their base that governance just mean empty words and opposing anything the dems were doing, Trump would have been butchered in the primary. But the GOP did do that and Trump realised that actual policy positions are a weakness in the GOP, so he just blathered on with empty rhetoric and racist dog whistles to win the nomination.

And then GOP voters voted for him.

The GOP is responsible for trump, 100%.

I don't expect it will get him impeached. It's just depressing and tawdry and beneath contempt. The US used to be a serious country, and stuff like this makes you guys an international punchline. That's sad, and scary.

If “the news are mean to the GOP” is the reason for Trump, then how does that square with the increased negative coverage of Hillary (and of Obama before her)?

We can repeat that lie every time, and we can refute it every time. But it will continue to be told.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
No. You cannot blame the democrats for trump.

The reason trump happened is because the GOP moved away from actually bothering to have any policies beyond "democrats bad!".

And then GOP voters voted for him.

The GOP is responsible for trump, 100%.

Exactly. It's not the Democrats' fault Cruz lost to Trump. And Rubio lost to him. And Jeb. And all the others that went up against him in the primaries. Trump was picked by the GOP voters.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
No. You cannot blame the democrats for trump.

The reason trump happened is because the GOP moved away from actually bothering to have any policies beyond "democrats bad!".

And then GOP voters voted for him.

The GOP is responsible for trump, 100%.

Trump is a sign that our system needs to progress. It's been the same old faces pulling the same old crap for decades, with little movement forward due to one party or another not playing ball. Trump came out of left field with the vocabulary and behavior that was completely different than any other option, and his even his slogan "Make America Great Again". He tried to hearken back to the good old days where our government wasn't as dysfunctional as it was, and spat venom at everyone, which also set him apart. Its honestly no wonder her won, but its also a message. A warning that our system is broken, and we as the American people need to get our government working for us again, and move forward with dignity and respect, regardless of party.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
No. You cannot blame the democrats for trump.

I partly blame democrats for nominating Clinton. I'm fully convinced anyone else, yes even Bernie Sanders (especially Biden), would've done better than Clinton.

The reason trump happened is because the GOP moved away from actually bothering to have any policies beyond "democrats bad!". If the GOP hadn't spent years teaching their base that governance just mean empty words and opposing anything the dems were doing, Trump would have been butchered in the primary. But the GOP did do that and Trump realised that actual policy positions are a weakness in the GOP, so he just blathered on with empty rhetoric and racist dog whistles to win the nomination.

Trump was literally in the right time/place for this where an outsider could find some success.

That was primarily caused by the GOP establishments giving their voters the middle-finger.

And then GOP voters voted for him.

The GOP is responsible for trump, 100%.

Well...yeah... the GOP will suffer the consequences to Democrat's gain. But, don't be blind to the fact that Trump had such a POOR opposition candidate. Trump/GOP voters didn't do that... that was all on Democrats.

I've never gotten a good answer as to when the 'great America' they are referring to was. It's kinda funny to watch people squirm when you ask.

 d-usa wrote:
If “the news are mean to the GOP” is the reason for Trump, then how does that square with the increased negative coverage of Hillary (and of Obama before her)?

We can repeat that lie every time, and we can refute it every time. But it will continue to be told.

Hillary? Yes...that's correct.

But, holy gak Obama? Every politician would love to receive the exact same treatment he got.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I've never gotten a good answer as to when the 'great America' they are referring to was. It's kinda funny to watch people squirm when you ask.

Maybe we ought to ask what Bill Clinton meant when he used that phrase (I think during '08 HRC primary??).

You know whem I have to give you credit that's actually a half-decent deflection/whataboutism.

 feeder wrote:

 whembly wrote:
And weirdly, this intense focus on shaming Trump's voters instead of figuring out why the GOP party was so ripe for takeover is frankly, bizarre. Seems like the parties, media and the old guard is doomed to repeat this madness.

There has been lots of debate. My takeaway from all of that debate is that Trump is the end result of the part 20-ish years of the GOP eschewing workable policy in favour of lies, whataboutism and victimhood.

...says...the Canadian.

Obama coverage in 2012:

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/study-coverage-of-obama-romney-highly-negative/