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Maybe if you count, say...daemon engines as "lots of daemons" but AFAIK only the daemon prince gets a save where you might end up having a higher basic save than an invulnerable.

I'm not disputing that knights are by definition a skew list. just pointing out that you said something that is false while you were not addressing the actual point, which was not "knights are not a skew list" but instead "how are knights TAC."

The goalposts are over here, Xeno. Not there, here. You said "knights are a skew list that is also TAC."

I responded "knights are not TAC." They are limited to a single unit type, which grants them advantages, but as you obviously know because your own knight list has allies, comes packaged with weaknesses.

Like scoring. And screening. and the psychic phase.

Bloodcrushers, Bloodthirsters, Chariots of various forms etc. all have armour saves as well.

Not every faction should have a counter strat.. neither should none.. right now two have them? That’s all that needs them. Sorry if you don’t hav done, maybe next edition.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Not every faction should have a counter strat.. neither should none.. right now two have them? That’s all that needs them. Sorry if you don’t hav done, maybe next edition.

Lol says a Dark Eldar player

Ridiculous mechanic and should be be metaphorically taken out back and shot

Cynista wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Not every faction should have a counter strat.. neither should none.. right now two have them? That’s all that needs them. Sorry if you don’t hav done, maybe next edition.

Lol says a Dark Eldar player

Ridiculous mechanic and should be be metaphorically taken out back and shot

I own no drukhari forced at all. Harlequin and Craftworlds only so.. I guess there is that? Regardless I stand by my statement. If you want, you can email GW your woes. They won’t care, but you can. Until then, keep being upset while the superior races use it on you

I have nothing against counter stratagems, since having some element of CC prevents the game form devolving into "Who has the best combo/DPS". I WOULD say there's a problem when it become a faction specific stratagem like the examples currently are, since much like the double shot stratagem it ends up becoming mandatory.

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
I have nothing against counter stratagems, since having some element of CC prevents the game form devolving into "Who has the best combo/DPS".

Sadly, its there. Already was a problem, CA's exaggerated it. There should be a blanket: "spend the cost on an opponent's strategm+1 to cancel it". Burn the CPs, Burn the Strategems, Save the Game

Plus, once they're culled, balancing can actually happen. With allies, and CPs, and Strategms, right now its clearly too many moving parts for GW to find good play balance. We left all this behind in 7th... started 8th clean with the indices... and now we've bloated up again to a menagerie of nonsense.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Cynista wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Not every faction should have a counter strat.. neither should none.. right now two have them? That’s all that needs them. Sorry if you don’t hav done, maybe next edition.

Lol says a Dark Eldar player

Ridiculous mechanic and should be be metaphorically taken out back and shot

I own no drukhari forced at all. Harlequin and Craftworlds only so.. I guess there is that? Regardless I stand by my statement. If you want, you can email GW your woes. They won’t care, but you can. Until then, keep being upset while the superior races use it on you

If you are going to lie at least hide the evidence LMAO. Now you could just be making lists instead of actually owning the models or have sold them but you did in fact have DE at one point

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/688479.page

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/687020.page

 Lobukia wrote:

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
I have nothing against counter stratagems, since having some element of CC prevents the game form devolving into "Who has the best combo/DPS".

Sadly, its there. Already was a problem, CA's exaggerated it. There should be a blanket: "spend the cost on an opponent's strategm+1 to cancel it". Burn the CPs, Burn the Strategems, Save the Game

Plus, once they're culled, balancing can actually happen. With allies, and CPs, and Strategms, right now its clearly too many moving parts for GW to find good play balance. We left all this behind in 7th... started 8th clean with the indices... and now we've bloated up again to a menagerie of nonsense.

I actually [/i]like[i] Stratagems. Before 8th, there was a lot of situational equipment and specialabiltied which often meant they rarely got used for their price or they were gated behind characters (or even special characters). Or even certain aspects of the fluff that never got touched on. So having a way to use those without feeling cheated because that item only works against maybe two armies. The real problem is that:
A: Some things that are stratagems that were wargear should just be wargear ('ard boyz).
B: Some are just universally useful and have no real reason to not be used (Shoot/Fight twice)
C: there's no way CP generation can be done that doesn't encourage a certain style. The current systems encourages cheap batteries, a fixed amount system would result in death stars. The best idea I've heard so far is making Stratagems on a cool down system, but that would result in a lot of book keeping.

Also. lets cut the hyperbole. 7th was a rolling dumpster fire of suck, 8th is nowhere near as bad

I'm sure it's been said before, but I feel it's an obvious change that should happen immediately.

Rotate ion shields cannot be used on a model with the ion bulwark trait.

SemperMortis wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Cynista wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Not every faction should have a counter strat.. neither should none.. right now two have them? That’s all that needs them. Sorry if you don’t hav done, maybe next edition.

Lol says a Dark Eldar player

Ridiculous mechanic and should be be metaphorically taken out back and shot

I own no drukhari forced at all. Harlequin and Craftworlds only so.. I guess there is that? Regardless I stand by my statement. If you want, you can email GW your woes. They won’t care, but you can. Until then, keep being upset while the superior races use it on you

If you are going to lie at least hide the evidence LMAO. Now you could just be making lists instead of actually owning the models or have sold them but you did in fact have DE at one point

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/688479.page

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/687020.page

So making lists without owning models or selling models is a crime and proves a point about what exactly? I owned drukhari in 6th edition into 7th, so I never got to use the 8th edition strats with them. Would I like them back? Of course, my army was huge. You point becomes invalid for the very reason I DONT own the models. now, please bring intelligent conversation next time

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Cynista wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Not every faction should have a counter strat.. neither should none.. right now two have them? That’s all that needs them. Sorry if you don’t hav done, maybe next edition.

Lol says a Dark Eldar player

Ridiculous mechanic and should be be metaphorically taken out back and shot

I own no drukhari forced at all. Harlequin and Craftworlds only so.. I guess there is that? Regardless I stand by my statement. If you want, you can email GW your woes. They won’t care, but you can. Until then, keep being upset while the superior races use it on you

If you are going to lie at least hide the evidence LMAO. Now you could just be making lists instead of actually owning the models or have sold them but you did in fact have DE at one point

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/688479.page

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/687020.page

So making lists without owning models or selling models is a crime and proves a point about what exactly? I owned drukhari in 6th edition into 7th, so I never got to use the 8th edition strats with them. Would I like them back? Of course, my army was huge. You point becomes invalid for the very reason I DONT own the models. now, please bring intelligent conversation next time

Soorry buddy, even liking or defending Dark Eldar makes you a Dark Eldar apologist. Just ask anyone that who says “guard apologist” frequently.

 Apple Peel wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Cynista wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Not every faction should have a counter strat.. neither should none.. right now two have them? That’s all that needs them. Sorry if you don’t hav done, maybe next edition.

Lol says a Dark Eldar player

Ridiculous mechanic and should be be metaphorically taken out back and shot

I own no drukhari forced at all. Harlequin and Craftworlds only so.. I guess there is that? Regardless I stand by my statement. If you want, you can email GW your woes. They won’t care, but you can. Until then, keep being upset while the superior races use it on you

If you are going to lie at least hide the evidence LMAO. Now you could just be making lists instead of actually owning the models or have sold them but you did in fact have DE at one point

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/688479.page

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/687020.page

So making lists without owning models or selling models is a crime and proves a point about what exactly? I owned drukhari in 6th edition into 7th, so I never got to use the 8th edition strats with them. Would I like them back? Of course, my army was huge. You point becomes invalid for the very reason I DONT own the models. now, please bring intelligent conversation next time

Soorry buddy, even liking or defending Dark Eldar makes you a Dark Eldar apologist. Just ask anyone that who says “guard apologist” frequently.

No one really cares about guard, unless you just don’t how to competitively shut them down in which case why aren’t you playing master race aeldari soup spam? Anyway back on topic, I hope in the fac all aeldari factions get points decreases for all units. Everything is over costed. And the wraithknight needs to drop to 1/3 it’s points value

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Cynista wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Not every faction should have a counter strat.. neither should none.. right now two have them? That’s all that needs them. Sorry if you don’t hav done, maybe next edition.

Lol says a Dark Eldar player

Ridiculous mechanic and should be be metaphorically taken out back and shot

I own no drukhari forced at all. Harlequin and Craftworlds only so.. I guess there is that? Regardless I stand by my statement. If you want, you can email GW your woes. They won’t care, but you can. Until then, keep being upset while the superior races use it on you

If you are going to lie at least hide the evidence LMAO. Now you could just be making lists instead of actually owning the models or have sold them but you did in fact have DE at one point

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/688479.page

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/687020.page

So making lists without owning models or selling models is a crime and proves a point about what exactly? I owned drukhari in 6th edition into 7th, so I never got to use the 8th edition strats with them. Would I like them back? Of course, my army was huge. You point becomes invalid for the very reason I DONT own the models. now, please bring intelligent conversation next time

Soorry buddy, even liking or defending Dark Eldar makes you a Dark Eldar apologist. Just ask anyone that who says “guard apologist” frequently.

No one really cares about guard, unless you just don’t how to competitively shut them down in which case why aren’t you playing master race aeldari soup spam? Anyway back on topic, I hope in the fac all aeldari factions get points decreases for all units. Everything is over costed. And the wraithknight needs to drop to 1/3 it’s points value

I hope in the FAQ that all guard units drop points. That’d Be nice.

 Apple Peel wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Cynista wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Not every faction should have a counter strat.. neither should none.. right now two have them? That’s all that needs them. Sorry if you don’t hav done, maybe next edition.

Lol says a Dark Eldar player

Ridiculous mechanic and should be be metaphorically taken out back and shot

I own no drukhari forced at all. Harlequin and Craftworlds only so.. I guess there is that? Regardless I stand by my statement. If you want, you can email GW your woes. They won’t care, but you can. Until then, keep being upset while the superior races use it on you

If you are going to lie at least hide the evidence LMAO. Now you could just be making lists instead of actually owning the models or have sold them but you did in fact have DE at one point

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/688479.page

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/687020.page

So making lists without owning models or selling models is a crime and proves a point about what exactly? I owned drukhari in 6th edition into 7th, so I never got to use the 8th edition strats with them. Would I like them back? Of course, my army was huge. You point becomes invalid for the very reason I DONT own the models. now, please bring intelligent conversation next time

Soorry buddy, even liking or defending Dark Eldar makes you a Dark Eldar apologist. Just ask anyone that who says “guard apologist” frequently.

No one really cares about guard, unless you just don’t how to competitively shut them down in which case why aren’t you playing master race aeldari soup spam? Anyway back on topic, I hope in the fac all aeldari factions get points decreases for all units. Everything is over costed. And the wraithknight needs to drop to 1/3 it’s points value

I hope in the FAQ that all guard units drop points. That’d Be nice.

I wouldn’t mind 3 ppm guard going against appropriately priced free 20 man kitted out guardian squads

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Cynista wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Not every faction should have a counter strat.. neither should none.. right now two have them? That’s all that needs them. Sorry if you don’t hav done, maybe next edition.

Lol says a Dark Eldar player

Ridiculous mechanic and should be be metaphorically taken out back and shot

I own no drukhari forced at all. Harlequin and Craftworlds only so.. I guess there is that? Regardless I stand by my statement. If you want, you can email GW your woes. They won’t care, but you can. Until then, keep being upset while the superior races use it on you

If you are going to lie at least hide the evidence LMAO. Now you could just be making lists instead of actually owning the models or have sold them but you did in fact have DE at one point

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/688479.page

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/687020.page

So making lists without owning models or selling models is a crime and proves a point about what exactly? I owned drukhari in 6th edition into 7th, so I never got to use the 8th edition strats with them. Would I like them back? Of course, my army was huge. You point becomes invalid for the very reason I DONT own the models. now, please bring intelligent conversation next time

Soorry buddy, even liking or defending Dark Eldar makes you a Dark Eldar apologist. Just ask anyone that who says “guard apologist” frequently.

No one really cares about guard, unless you just don’t how to competitively shut them down in which case why aren’t you playing master race aeldari soup spam? Anyway back on topic, I hope in the fac all aeldari factions get points decreases for all units. Everything is over costed. And the wraithknight needs to drop to 1/3 it’s points value

I hope in the FAQ that all guard units drop points. That’d Be nice.

I wouldn’t mind 3 ppm guard going against appropriately priced free 20 man kitted out guardian squads

Only if a Space Marine goes down to 7.

 Lobukia wrote:

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
I have nothing against counter stratagems, since having some element of CC prevents the game form devolving into "Who has the best combo/DPS".

Sadly, its there. Already was a problem, CA's exaggerated it. There should be a blanket: "spend the cost on an opponent's strategm+1 to cancel it". Burn the CPs, Burn the Strategems, Save the Game

Plus, once they're culled, balancing can actually happen. With allies, and CPs, and Strategms, right now its clearly too many moving parts for GW to find good play balance. We left all this behind in 7th... started 8th clean with the indices... and now we've bloated up again to a menagerie of nonsense.

But a situation where everyone can counter everyone would just make all stratagems that can be countered, as am assuming the pre game ones would not be, useless for al armies, save for the one that can run double CP of other armies. If my opponent has 15-20CP and I have 9, and my stratagems cost 2-3CP, I will run out of CP turn 2 with using zero and my opponent will still have 5-7 to use, while I am going to have zero to counter anything my opponent uses.

If the Chaos FAQ and Big FAQ aren't released today... Imma fly to Notingham and burn that gak to the ground.

And by "fly to Notingham and burn that gak to the ground" I obviously mean... Sit here with my computer and bitch on the internet.

I'm sort of wondering if they're not delaying it on purpose so it drops almost simultaneously as the Ynnari WD issue, meaning it'll drop on tuesday the 30th.

I really hope it's sooner than that but it's looking more likely by the minute. Then of course GW should've just stated that from the beginning though

If they would just communicate or say something, anything, about the egregious Type-O than people (me) wouldn't get their panties in a knot having to deal with TFG's using 65 point Obliterators in tournaments.

 oni wrote:
If the Chaos FAQ and Big FAQ aren't released today... Imma fly to Notingham and burn that gak to the ground.

And by "fly to Notingham and burn that gak to the ground" I obviously mean... Sit here with my computer and bitch on the internet.

Is there precedent for Faq's releasing on the weekend?

I would not expect it until after the weekend.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PiñaColada wrote:
I'm sort of wondering if they're not delaying it on purpose so it drops almost simultaneously as the Ynnari WD issue, meaning it'll drop on tuesday the 30th.

I really hope it's sooner than that but it's looking more likely by the minute. Then of course GW should've just stated that from the beginning though

Yeah. if they wanted to wait for the WD they should have said so.

I can't say I've noticed any repeatable trend with their FAQ releases. It feels like its been all over the place and it's painfully obvious there's zero feths given about their own published FAQ schedule.

Sadly... Their inconsistency make them unreliable. If they're unreliable they lose credibility. Without credibility, everything they say is meaningless.

 Ordana wrote:
Yeah. if they wanted to wait for the WD they should have said so.

Wouldn't matter. You'd all still whine, only then you'd have a focused target.

 oni wrote:
I can't say I've noticed any repeatable trend with their FAQ releases. It feels like its been all over the place and it's painfully obvious there's zero feths given about their own published FAQ schedule.

Sadly... Their inconsistency make them unreliable. If they're unreliable they lose credibility. Without credibility, everything they say is meaningless.

Same goes for the community. If we lose our minds so easily, why even take what we say as anything but a tantrum? You don't get anywhere by feeding into a tantrum.

Lemondish wrote:

 Ordana wrote:
Yeah. if they wanted to wait for the WD they should have said so.

Wouldn't matter. You'd all still whine, only then you'd have a focused target.

I disagree. If I knew a firm release date or even a loose reason for delay, I wouldn't be champing at the bit for the Chaos FAQ. At that point I do not see an obvious reason for anyone to "whine" as you put it. Seems like you're being negative just for the sake of being negative.

 oni wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

 Ordana wrote:
Yeah. if they wanted to wait for the WD they should have said so.

Wouldn't matter. You'd all still whine, only then you'd have a focused target.

I disagree. If I knew a firm release date or even a loose reason for delay, I wouldn't be champing at the bit for the Chaos FAQ. At that point I do not see an obvious reason for anyone to "whine" as you put it. Seems like you're being negative just for the sake of being negative.

Yeah, I wouldn’t be bothering each day if I had a date or something.

Personally, I'm an advocate of stratagems work like a side deck. You 'spend' your command points pre-game in what you decide to bring along as strats. When you use the strat you expend the card.

Whether I'd allow duplicates or not is something I'd have to ponder, I lean towards no, but maybe they could only be allowed every other player turn.

So a shoot twice strat that is used turn one could only be used again from turn 3 onwards.

This means that you have to carefully consider how you want the strats to work pre-game, you can't just pick what you need and when out of an expansive list.

I'd also potentially allow a period before a game where you declare your strats along with your army list to your opponent. At that point you have 5 minutes or so to change any of your strats based upong your opponents list and strats.

Once this change has been made, no further changes are allowed.

Lemondish wrote:

 Ordana wrote:
Yeah. if they wanted to wait for the WD they should have said so.

Wouldn't matter. You'd all still whine, only then you'd have a focused target.

 oni wrote:
I can't say I've noticed any repeatable trend with their FAQ releases. It feels like its been all over the place and it's painfully obvious there's zero feths given about their own published FAQ schedule.

Sadly... Their inconsistency make them unreliable. If they're unreliable they lose credibility. Without credibility, everything they say is meaningless.

Same goes for the community. If we lose our minds so easily, why even take what we say as anything but a tantrum? You don't get anywhere by feeding into a tantrum.

Don't worry, i'm quite sure that GW is wise enough to disregard anything said on this forum.

Honestly, right now I'd just like an FAQ... Seriously, there are only a few more days left in the month!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spoletta wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

 Ordana wrote:
Yeah. if they wanted to wait for the WD they should have said so.

Wouldn't matter. You'd all still whine, only then you'd have a focused target.

 oni wrote:
I can't say I've noticed any repeatable trend with their FAQ releases. It feels like its been all over the place and it's painfully obvious there's zero feths given about their own published FAQ schedule.

Sadly... Their inconsistency make them unreliable. If they're unreliable they lose credibility. Without credibility, everything they say is meaningless.

Same goes for the community. If we lose our minds so easily, why even take what we say as anything but a tantrum? You don't get anywhere by feeding into a tantrum.

Don't worry, i'm quite sure that GW is wise enough to disregard anything said on this forum.

They have a point. I've started playing so many games in the last few years and they've all had updates and FAQs that came out on time. Some game bigger than GW. I honestly forgot the FAQ was even coming out until I saw this thread pop up again.

I want to point out that the April release date was already a delay on the FAQ. Originally, they announced that the FAQ was to release in March, but chose to delay it to incorporate feedback from Adepticon. They also announced the game is in a pretty good place as it is. Curious as to whether they've changed their tone then, or if Adepticon showed some big problems, since otherwise they wouldn't have to be so late on their release.

Actually, the April 2019 FAQ Release date has been the target since shortly after they released the Adepticon delayed FAQ in 2018.

And we should all stop being surprised that when GW says Month X, they mean the end of Month X. It's happened so many times (Fall FAQ, Orktober and the Codex release, etc.) to be a trend rather than an aberration.