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i'm on my 3rd finecast. my first was the librarian, the second was the techmarine kit - only had two small defects with the techmarine's scanner arm and a small bubble on the servators chin. GW sent me a replacement kit. The new kit is razor sharp with only one small bubble on the techmarines boot (its so close to the corner of the scult its undectable). They do seem to be improving.

Opened my second Finecast models to discover a large range of defects including snapped bits, grooves where the mould halves didn't seem to line up, fuzzy casting, bubbles galore etc. etc.

I sent an email during the weekend but I've yet to get a reply. Ho hum.

After discussion amongst the Moderators the thread was closed as it had turned into a case of product BLEGH! pronouncements.
I had closed the thread.

BUT: Due to this being the only finecast thread here I've reopened it - Please try and add news or rumours from this point forward (includes examples of good or bad) random discussion about finecast or GW's grand overarching conspiracy to rip us off is not necessary.


Waaagh_Gonads

Thorgut wrote:Opened my second Finecast models to discover a large range of defects including snapped bits, grooves where the mould halves didn't seem to line up, fuzzy casting, bubbles galore etc. etc.

I sent an email during the weekend but I've yet to get a reply. Ho hum.

give 'em a quick ring.

So Guys.....Whats in the 2nd Wave?

I'm hoping meganobz, has anyone got a clue?

Ajroo wrote:So Guys.....Whats in the 2nd Wave?
I'm hoping meganobz, has anyone got a clue?

From previous page:

Kroothawk wrote:

snake wrote:Is there going to be a second wave of Finecast? Anyone have a release list similar to the first if so...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/374302.page
Also some monsters in July (Lammasu, Taurus and more).

Kilkrazy wrote:There's an easy solution to all of this.

Don't buy GW rules and models.

It never ceases to amaze me the propensity of GW players to just complain and complain and complain about every little thing GW does. People either need to suck it up or move on to something else.

Yes the finecast release was screwed up; no doubt about it. It really only impacts you, though, if you are a totally new player or just have to have a new army. I've been playing GW games since the 3rd edition Warhammer Fantasy hardback book. I buy minis now to add to my established collection. It isn't hard to just ignore finecast for now until it improves. It is just laughable that people who list thousands of points of different armies in their sigs are getting so upset over this. You obviously have all the minis you really need to play with. What is the big deal?? Yeah GW does stupid things and GW doesn't seem to have much respect for its established player base to any degree. To that I say "so what?". I've got enough GW product that if they went out of business tomorrow I could still play all the games I play without even the slightest impact. Most of us posting here are in the same position I am in.

That said I regularly play 40k, Epic 40k (don't have armegeddon), Necromunda and Blood Bowl, but lately have been playing even more Flames of War. Something to be said for playing a game with a well written set of rules. I am also playing Uncharted Seas and Firestorm Armada along with learning Warmachine. If you aren't having fun playing GW stuff it is pointless to complain about it. Find something that you *can* have fun with!!

Skriker

I think part of the the point KK was making was that you can play GW games (all of the specialist games you mention) for free and use others miniatures.

I didn't read it all...
But GW is actually replacing finecast figs that are defected?

theQuanz wrote:I didn't read it all...
But GW is actually replacing finecast figs that are defected?

Yes, of course.




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notprop wrote:I think part of the the point KK was making was that you can play GW games (all of the specialist games you mention) for free and use others miniatures.

YEs.

And you don't have to play GW games. You can play non GW games.

Has the cost of the Specialist Game models increased ?

Why would GW require that we send the defective sprues to get a replacement when, in the past, with "more expensive" metal, they would send a replacement without question ?

After another week, my FLGS STILL cannot get any more FineCast models in. I'm anxious to get a Grey Knights Draigo to give this line a try.

Myrthe wrote:Has the cost of the Specialist Game models increased ?

Not that I've heard.

Myrthe wrote:Why would GW require that we send the defective sprues to get a replacement when, in the past, with "more expensive" metal, they would send a replacement without question ?

As far as I'm aware, the only instance of this we've heard about is with a guy complaining about multiple boxed sets at once.

Myrthe wrote:After another week, my FLGS STILL cannot get any more FineCast models in. I'm anxious to get a Grey Knights Draigo to give this line a try.

That's a little odd - I thought they were able to order 3 of any Finecast model per week (according to Maelstrom), but maybe demand is outstripping supply here.

Anyone know what they are doing if you get a defective metal mini, or a missing part. Just wondering as there are some boxes around at independants to buy?

Just wondering what happens if you get a duff one, and the box has since switched to finecast?

This might not be a suitable question but what has the metal model been sent to?

I saw my local GW manager sending the whole box of metal minis back to somewhere.

Are they just gonna be destroyed? seems like a waste.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Anyone know what they are doing if you get a defective metal mini, or a missing part. Just wondering as there are some boxes around at independants to buy?

Just wondering what happens if you get a duff one, and the box has since switched to finecast?

I have already seen someone post that they were sent a finecast replacement. Makes sense.

It may have been in the returns thread?

I have to say that all of this is increasingly looking like a rushed release, as GW have said I believe? Specifically the "only 3 each" in an order (see Maelstrom) suggests that they hadn't built up stock to meet demand, the varied quality would also probably come about because of this.

I guess that once the word was out metal miniature sales dried up and they thought that anything, even a disproportionately high percentage of miscasts and the related bad press and returns, was better than the drop in turnover with half year trading approaching.

Grabbed my first Finecast miniature last night - a Zoanthrope. I need 2 to fill out my 1000 points of Tyranids and start playing again, and I was waiting for them to be redone ever since I heard about the whole resin switch ages ago since there was no way I was getting them in metal.

First impressions were good. I checked it out in the clam pack thoroughly, and unpacked it as soon as I got it home. No miscasts. Two airbubbles - not even patched of air bubbles, just two tiny ones. One in the head carapace that will be invisible when the model is painted, and one beneath the tip of a claw, again, that will be invisible when painted.

I can't really compare to the metal Zoanthrope as far as details go as I don't have one, but the light weight is definitely a boon for the Zoanthrope. It won't fall over when it sits on a misplaced grain of sand.

If anyone wants to see pictures of it on the frame, I have them.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Anyone know what they are doing if you get a defective metal mini, or a missing part. Just wondering as there are some boxes around at independants to buy?

Just wondering what happens if you get a duff one, and the box has since switched to finecast?

If the metal model were out of production, clearly they could not supply a direct replacement, so they would offer a cash refund or a Finecast replacement.


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-Loki- wrote:Grabbed my first Finecast miniature last night - a Zoanthrope. I need 2 to fill out my 1000 points of Tyranids and start playing again, and I was waiting for them to be redone ever since I heard about the whole resin switch ages ago since there was no way I was getting them in metal.

First impressions were good. I checked it out in the clam pack thoroughly, and unpacked it as soon as I got it home. No miscasts. Two airbubbles - not even patched of air bubbles, just two tiny ones. One in the head carapace that will be invisible when the model is painted, and one beneath the tip of a claw, again, that will be invisible when painted.

I can't really compare to the metal Zoanthrope as far as details go as I don't have one, but the light weight is definitely a boon for the Zoanthrope. It won't fall over when it sits on a misplaced grain of sand.

If anyone wants to see pictures of it on the frame, I have them.

The metal Zoanthrope is one of the most top heavy models ever. I already had six of them from last year, and I'm not planning to replace them at £15.50 a piece. I am moving mine on to 50mm bases instead.

Interestingly, the Venomthrope, another top heavy little bugger, has not been produced in Finecast. I think this might because the tentacles are impossible to do in Finecast. However maybe it will come in a later wave.

Kilkrazy wrote:The metal Zoanthrope is one of the most top heavy models ever. I already had six of them from last year, and I'm not planning to replace them at £15.50 a piece. I am moving mine on to 50mm bases instead.

Interestingly, the Venomthrope, another top heavy little bugger, has not been produced in Finecast. I think this might because the tentacles are impossible to do in Finecast. However maybe it will come in a later wave.

Luckily for me, I have none yet. I was considering the Troll Forged alts until I heard about Finecast. So while they're pricey, I'm not replacing already pricey metals with them.

According to the second wave rumour thread, the Venomthrope is coming in August. which is when I'll be buying mine.

I'll confess I'd already decided to scratch build my own Venomthropes for ease of transport using 2nd edition Zoanthropes (huge bloated head with porous vents for fumes? Yum!), 2nd edition lictor heads and lash whips. I'll have mine on legs too thanks.

Finecast though harped as flexible seems to be very variable in that degree - some parts bend, others will snap like a twig. The lash whips might be bendy or they might shatter on the Venomthrope - either way, finecast or metal it'll still be a pain to transport.

Skriker wrote:It never ceases to amaze me the propensity of GW players to just complain and complain and complain about every little thing GW does.

You realize you're complaining right now, right? Your whole post was one big complaint about people who complain.

I think the level of complaint is representative of how closely attached people feel to the hobby. It's been a big part of many of our lives, and when there is a common conception (as there has been over the last few weeks) that the company is being handled atrociously, then it stands to reason that people will get heated about it.

In particular, I look at how the hobby was when I was a child, and know that if I had been born 15 years later there is no way I would have got into it. There are simply not the entry level options any more, the price for an army to play in the way that GW intends is outlandish, and I worry that the future youngsters brought into the hobby will be purely the domain of that spoilt kid from the Simpsons with the ponytail. You can't even pick up a WD from Smiths any more (the way I was first attracted to the hobby).

So onto Finecast. It doesn't matter how many times you recite "2+2=5", there is no way that a company like Games Workshop should have released a new product, heralded it as a major movement forward in the industry, and then practised such appalling quality control. To someone who can only buy mail order like myself, there is absolutely no way I can risk an international delivery (aside from the embargo, which means such a purchase is not economically feasible anyway) to get hold of new GW stuff. It's almost like they have walked up to me, slapped me in the face and told me to f*** off.

I feel like I have been pushed out through the double doors of a saloon with a hob-nailed boot applied firmly to my backside. I didn't want this, GW had been so much a part of my life growing up and have given me so many hours of enjoyment, but dubious decision after dubious decision have just been impossible to ignore. The company has become an all-consuming carnivore, existing purely to generate short-term profit for dividend returns (everything is done with this in mind, and screw the consequences), and taking advantage of those who want to be part of the hobby but aren't aware of the other options out there.

Other than a core of artists and designers, there is nothing remaining of the company that I was previously a big part of. I hope you can understand why I and so many others are so heated about this issue, and why a not unsubstantial chunk of the demographic will be taking their money elsewhere.

Pacific wrote:I think the level of complaint is representative of how closely attached people feel to the hobby. It's been a big part of many of our lives, and when there is a common conception (as there has been over the last few weeks) that the company is being handled atrociously, then it stands to reason that people will get heated about it.

In particular, I look at how the hobby was when I was a child, and know that if I had been born 15 years later there is no way I would have got into it. There are simply not the entry level options any more, the price for an army to play in the way that GW intends is outlandish, and I worry that the future youngsters brought into the hobby will be purely the domain of that spoilt kid from the Simpsons with the ponytail. You can't even pick up a WD from Smiths any more (the way I was first attracted to the hobby).

So onto Finecast. It doesn't matter how many times you recite "2+2=5", there is no way that a company like Games Workshop should have released a new product, heralded it as a major movement forward in the industry, and then practised such appalling quality control. To someone who can only buy mail order like myself, there is absolutely no way I can risk an international delivery (aside from the embargo, which means such a purchase is not economically feasible anyway) to get hold of new GW stuff. It's almost like they have walked up to me, slapped me in the face and told me to f*** off.

I feel like I have been pushed out through the double doors of a saloon with a hob-nailed boot applied firmly to my backside. I didn't want this, GW had been so much a part of my life growing up and have given me so many hours of enjoyment, but dubious decision after dubious decision have just been impossible to ignore. The company has become an all-consuming carnivore, existing purely to generate short-term profit for dividend returns (everything is done with this in mind, and screw the consequences), and taking advantage of those who want to be part of the hobby but aren't aware of the other options out there.

Other than a core of artists and designers, there is nothing remaining of the company that I was previously a big part of. I hope you can understand why I and so many others are so heated about this issue, and why a not unsubstantial chunk of the demographic will be taking their money elsewhere.

I've been playing GW games for the last 24 years and have invested plenty of time and money in GW product through the years. When it started out GW was more a hobby for those calling the shots and running things. Now it is run more like a business. Yep they make stupid business decisions because money is their motivator just like pretty much every other publically traded company around the world. What I find most interesting is that these same complaints have been going on hard core for the last 11 years. Way back when I used to post and comment regularly in the warhammer news group on usenet. People still had the same complaints and rants that are happening today. In fact over the years I have checked in on the usenet group and through all that time some of the *same* people are spouting the *same* complaints for the past 11 years. *11 YEARS*. People complain about plenty of things, but only GW players seem to expect that they are entitled to certain things from the manufacturer of the game they play. For some reason despite years of the company doing the same kinds of things over and over those same people seem to expect that something is going to magically change for the better and then voice the same complaints when it doesn't. It is very much like putting your hand in a fire a 10th time and then ranting and complaining about the fire because it burned you again despite the fact that you expected it wouldn't burn you this time.

I would be very happy to see that "not unsubstantial chunk of the demographic" take their money elsewhere. If that happens GW might wake up and really make some changes. Unfortunately what happens is people complain a blue streak about the same problems yet again and then keep buying the same amount of stuff anyway. Businesses hear only one kind of complaint: The kind that costs them money." Whether it is decreased sales due to poor company policies or threats of lawsuits that make a company fix a defective product the company will respond. Exactly what incentive does GW have to change anything when the hardcore players keep buying the products anyway despite supposedly being fed up?? There are plenty of other games out there that you can play that cost a lot less to get into and play than GW games. There are also no reasons why a group of friends can't remain a regular 40k/WFB player and step off of the GW bandwagon for the rest of their lives if they want. My group still plays the original Necromunda rules with a few tweaks to fill in rules holes. Who cares that there is a newer version available from GW?? There are even rulesets out there that you can buy and use all of your GW minis with and not have to buy any new minis at all.

I am not saying that there are no reasons to be unhappy with GW, but that an inordinate amount of time is spent complaining about them. I can still deal with GW because all I expect from them is to make rules and minis that I can choose or choose not to buy. I don't expect anything else so their boneheaded moves don't ruin my day at all. People need to change their expectations or they need to talk with their wallets. Impact the bottom line by having their hard core long term players walk away from their products and they *will* notice something is amiss.

Skriker




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Sidstyler wrote:

Skriker wrote:It never ceases to amaze me the propensity of GW players to just complain and complain and complain about every little thing GW does.

You realize you're complaining right now, right? Your whole post was one big complaint about people who complain.

So What?? Your point?? I can't comment on the amount people complain because it is a complaint??

Actually my post was one big comment about how people complain and complain and then don't change anything they do. If all I have are complaints about something I am doing I just stop doing it. That thought doesn't seem to apply to a lot of GW players and *that* was my point which you seemed to have missed...

Skriker

Has anyone heard of the thunderfire cannon in finecast yet? It is the one metal model I hate the most but want real bad. Had two that were more trouble than their worth, so I got rid of them.

The Bretonnian king is still more trouble than it's worth. Remember how the front leg wouldn't quite fit onto the body? Well, they kept that little feature as part of the new psudoresin kit. Huzzah...

I got The Dark Marshal for $44.24 Canadian Dollars (taxed) and after working on it, I felt it was still overpriced and I had to be more careful with it compared to his metal counterpart.
So if what GW says about the annual price increase happening on the same day as Finecast's release is true, does this mean a change to plastic instead of a resin compound would have the same price?

Sure, it was easier to clean and quite insusceptible to paint chipping, but most of the flash I had to clean off were on the details themselves. (Rider's abdomen) Similar to the metal version, the horse's legs still didn't fit perfectly.

Friends of mine who I tried getting into mini wargaming started backing out after learning how much these new blisters cost.
Significant others got a good laugh from my purchase when they learned of the plastic miniature's price. (I didn't tell them it was made of even cheaper material!)

I was surprised to find myself actually feeling sorry for the money I spent while working on it.
Looks like it's time to eBay and retire!

If it's something about GW that amazes me, It's how they manage to get new players hooked on the stuff.

Sixtus wrote:I got The Dark Marshal for $44.24 Canadian Dollars (taxed) and after working on it, I felt it was still overpriced and I had to be more careful with it compared to his metal counterpart.
So if what GW says about the annual price increase happening on the same day as Finecast's release is true, does this mean a change to plastic instead of a resin compound would have the same price?

I don't think it's that simple. From my understanding, making a FineCast mold is a 'relatively' cheap process, akin to making molds for metals (They aren't the same molds, judging by the plastic-style sprue bits on many pieces, but they can reuse the same masters, which is a huge savings above and beyond the mold making expenses themselves).

Form what I understand, making a spin-casting mold is a day or two work for a qualified craftsman. There's effort involved, but it's something a lot of hobbyists do... Thus all the small metal/resin casting shops.

Making a mold for injection-molded plastics requires a lot of design work and is cut from steel. They used to be described as costing hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's specialized work and can require a mix of complex computer software and skill at placing parts so the mold fills properly. A lot of models would have needed to be redesigned and/or resculpted.

FineCast is presumably somewhere close to the spin-casting point. I'm guessing the FineCast molds are going to be short lived, but they're cheap to replace. Molds for plastics are practically immortal.

Anyway, moving to plastics would have meant a massive up-front costs that probably wouldn't have been manageable.

Balance wrote:

Sixtus wrote:I got The Dark Marshal for $44.24 Canadian Dollars (taxed) and after working on it, I felt it was still overpriced and I had to be more careful with it compared to his metal counterpart.
So if what GW says about the annual price increase happening on the same day as Finecast's release is true, does this mean a change to plastic instead of a resin compound would have the same price?

I don't think it's that simple. From my understanding, making a FineCast mold is a 'relatively' cheap process, akin to making molds for metals (They aren't the same molds, judging by the plastic-style sprue bits on many pieces, but they can reuse the same masters, which is a huge savings above and beyond the mold making expenses themselves).

Form what I understand, making a spin-casting mold is a day or two work for a qualified craftsman. There's effort involved, but it's something a lot of hobbyists do... Thus all the small metal/resin casting shops.

Making a mold for injection-molded plastics requires a lot of design work and is cut from steel. They used to be described as costing hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's specialized work and can require a mix of complex computer software and skill at placing parts so the mold fills properly. A lot of models would have needed to be redesigned and/or resculpted.

FineCast is presumably somewhere close to the spin-casting point. I'm guessing the FineCast molds are going to be short lived, but they're cheap to replace. Molds for plastics are practically immortal.

Anyway, moving to plastics would have meant a massive up-front costs that probably wouldn't have been manageable.

Seeing as how the Finecast models have sprues, I would have to say that they are injection molded. On some models there are also little parts of the mold itself stuck in the part. The Finecast molds are most likely made of silicone, which is pretty cheap. We use similar molds at my work for plastic.

Spincasting molds take maybe a couple hours to make.
Most of the time is waiting for it to cook and vulcanize the rubber. Then you need to cut in gates and vents after removing the masters.

From what I've seen of Finecast, they are using silicone molds, and casting in a similar manner to Forgeworld stuff.


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Spincasting molds take maybe a couple hours to make.
Most of the time is waiting for it to cook and vulcanize the rubber. Then you need to cut in gates and vents after removing the masters.

From what I've seen of Finecast, they are using silicone molds, and casting in a similar manner to Forgeworld stuff.

Skriker wrote:

Pacific wrote:I think the level of complaint is representative of how closely attached people feel to the hobby.. blah blah

I am not saying that there are no reasons to be unhappy with GW, but that an inordinate amount of time is spent complaining about them. I can still deal with GW because all I expect from them is to make rules and minis that I can choose or choose not to buy. I don't expect anything else so their boneheaded moves don't ruin my day at all. People need to change their expectations or they need to talk with their wallets. Impact the bottom line by having their hard core long term players walk away from their products and they *will* notice something is amiss.

A well written post and I agree with your sentiments. Although I have always just given a shrug of the shoulders at GW's other decisions I didn't agree with, the recent changes have been impossible to ignore and affect me specifically; I can no longer purchase their products even if I had a desire to do so. Yes I agree there have always been those who disparage everything GW does (I remember the outrage at the change to T4 Space Marines for example, oh if the internet had existed back then! ) but now I think the slew of 'bad news' has pushed even previously moderate fans into a position of at best loss of faith, and at worst disgust.

Certainly, it's the first time I have felt the need to pet pen to paper. I felt I had to let them know what they had done to alienate a previously loyal customer. Of course I don't expect it to make any difference (even amongst the hundreds if not thousands of other letters they will have received) and in the long term I think you are absolutely right - falling sales are the only thing that will communicate to them exactly how popular their decision making is. And I don't think it will be the angry minority of 'fans' on the internet who express displeasure at the recent turn of events who will do it either. It will be the young teenagers who set foot in a shop, look at the price tags, and see that their is no way that they will ever be able to take part in the hobby. Price rises and cutting overheads can only go so far in masking falling sales volume, and the figures for Europe at least are deeply worrying regarding the long term health of the company.

I think that the next few years will be very interesting in terms of how the hobby develops. Like you said there are several other games which are constantly growing in popularity, and are seeming to make the most of GW's poor decision making. Ultimately it may be good for the long term health of wargaming, you could argue that the monolithic entity that is GW has got lazy after being sat on the top of the pile, and some healthy competition might see them produce a better quality product for their customers in the future.

Picked up a box of Wracks today. Opened and examined the box in the store (being cautious based on everything I have read). Then took home.

Summary:
* Did not find any defects.
* Will have LOTS of clean-up much more than metal i.e. metal usually has a few tags...these sprues have them eveywhere...prep time has increased by 10x.
* Each wrack is a different sprue BTW.
* The special wpns sprue comes five (5) items - liquifier gun, agonizer/electro whip, hexrifle, stinger pistol, mindphase/flesh gauntlet.
* Delicate parts seem proportionally delicate rather than over-sized. That's a good thing.
* Highly convertable - resin is easy to cut and mod.
* Models 'seem' more detailed and crisper.
* They are FW quality or better (except much more model prep)
* At $33, I feel 'OK' buying them
* Like the set, would recommend

- Are they worth $6.6 a model?

Humm...yes I think so. As a unit of 5-10...no problem. But too expensive for more than one squad; quality, detail, etc. withstanding.

IMO - Finecast gives me the same feeling I have buying FW. As a special, small quantity model - awesome. Too expensive for high quantities.