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What makes you think that?

Every Codex since the Eldar Codex has heavy emphasis on Special Characters. Eldar armies always have Eldrad. You want Ravenwing or Deathwing you've bot to bring the same special character to every game, be it massive war for a planet or small skirmish. I don't think I've seen a Daemons list that doesn't include The Changeling and at least one other special character. And then there's the new Marine Codex.

Special Characters are now just 'Characters', and a surefire way to get people to buy them is to give them army-altering rules. GW chose to take the traits rules, simplify them, and tie the new version to special characters. The same thing will happen with Doctrines.

BYE

yea i agree with not beefing them up. a beefed up human, is a space marine. sure having to move a million minis around can be time consumeing but thats just the way of it.

Ehmmmm..... Death Korps of Kreig...... *Drools*

What were we talking about?

The day DKoK goes plastic is the day GW will find me in the shop buying all the boxes.
Trenchs, cannons, blasted no man landscapes......

M.

If GW came out with a decent plastic trenchcoat-gasmask IG set, they'd be making money hand over fist from me. As is, I buy what I need usually, but plastic trench warfare IG? Hell I'd buy that every time I walked into a store.

Giving Cadians an upgrade sprue with a different helmet, lasgun design and grav chute does not make them Elysians.. Maybe Harakoni Warhawks but not Elysians, oh no.

I believe Greatcoats are indeed in the pipeline for IG.

One would assume they are to be released with the Codex, but at this stage the above is still just rumour and speculation.

Please no Greatcoats, I don't wanna have to make another IG army!

just to keep things perspective, I beleive Greatcoat Guard has been 'under development' for nearly a decade now. I.E. most of the time I've been involved with 40k.

It used t be a running joke that plastic Cadians would never get made. Maybe it's about time that greatcoat IG gets made? I've always loved the steel legion models. I never actually bought them because about the time I had the chance to start a new army they were $40 for 10.

If they do plastic 'greatcoats', they really need to use the Krieg models as a basis.

NO FURCOATS! NO FURCOATS!

Yeah, same with the Baneblade really, a long-time rumour and something hinted at by GW but true in the end. Though plastic greatcoat Guard have really been a long time rumour. From a design POV they can be done easily I guess, just create a infantry sprue and a heavy weapons crew sprue along with the standard metal models. Voilà, a new range of Imperial Guardsmen.

Personally I'd like to see generic plastic greatcoat guardsmen. Maybe Valhallans.

I agree with previously stated on this page that something along the liens of plastic trenchcoat Imperial Guard maybe containing gasmasks in any other means and way actually Death Korps of Krieg but made out of plastic and not actually scandalously badly made or costing a whole lot of money yes this will be the day when it stops being a hobby and turns into an obsession for me and when i can foresee with great accuracy me handing over entire pay cheques to Games Workshop for the purpose of smothering myself in trench-coaty goodness.

*Breath.*

~sA

H.B.M.C. wrote:What makes you think that?

Every Codex since the Eldar Codex has heavy emphasis on Special Characters. Eldar armies always have Eldrad. You want Ravenwing or Deathwing you've bot to bring the same special character to every game, be it massive war for a planet or small skirmish. I don't think I've seen a Daemons list that doesn't include The Changeling and at least one other special character. And then there's the new Marine Codex.

Special Characters are now just 'Characters', and a surefire way to get people to buy them is to give them army-altering rules. GW chose to take the traits rules, simplify them, and tie the new version to special characters. The same thing will happen with Doctrines.

BYE

I'm not saying that Special Characters will be worthless or that people will generally not use them. GW is working on a philosophy of making special characters distinguishably better for marginally more points. That usefulness will hold true with the new IG codex and anyone with a pragmatic bone will take them. Unlike the armies done so far in this edition the IG do not have the pre-establish characters tied to particular variations of the army. They had those sorts of characters, but beyond Cadians and Catachans GW doesn't really want to support with a full range support and I'm doubtful that GW will bring back any character just to revive direct order guard sales. I believe we'll see things mostly like "bolster defenses" bandied about. Maybe also things that change abilities, but not in the army shaping, FOC changing way; more like Yarrick granting preferred enemy orks or something.

Poor Mythos. He got crap over at Warseer for stuff too

Think we should start up the Ratling debate here?

Hey leave Mythos alone. After Jervis he's my next homeboy.

Besides, showing any ammount of initiative or brain power gets you derided at Warseer. I think they're allergic to original ideas.

BYE

Thanks HBMC.
Yeah... those people were seriously disrespectful. At least around here people read your post and respond accordingly. Over there I had to repeat myself several times and they still didn't get what I was saying.

Is it against the forum rules to call someone on Warseer thick headed and idiotic? Can we call them losers? Can we compare their IQ's to small mammalians? I'll assume not, since their is some overlapping forum members, but I bet you could guess what I would have to say.

I'm really looking forward to the IG codex and I hope we finally get a codex the IG actually deserve. I mean IG are suppose to be the low man on the totem pole but on top of their natural disadvantages, GW's seems to have always been insistent on relatively forced disadvantages, ie exploding hell hounds of 3rd. I just mean it really looks like the IG will be getting a real thoughtful update.

Hey, I like Mythos. He may love Ratlings, which I loathe, but he didn't resort to shouting like some folks did

I really do hope we get the Guard Sniper Teams that we were discussing over there.

My opinion is that their is a place for both Ratlings and human snipers, GW just needs to do something to differentiate them. I think Ratlings are an obvious choice in the scout sniper role and excelling because of the thematic device of being beyond human due to their abhumanity. I personally see the human snipers as being in a bit more of a support role maybe utilizing anti-material rifles, like IG equivalents of M87's and M102's.

The problem is that Snipers need to be in units. Sniper Rifles only work in 40K if they come in large groups. This, of course, goes completely against the idea of a Sniper Rifle (and is the chief reason we buffed them so much in our own rules, but at the same time made Snipers solitary figures).

Ratlings are the Sniper unit. Now you can do a straight swap 'counts as' for Ratlings using regular Snipers, or you can do what they do now and have single Snipers in squads. That gets you your human sniper, but he's a waste of time as he's a single rifle and that will cause pretty pathetic damage over the game.

Not sure what you could do to a human sniper unit that would make them different to Ratlings. In our rules I made Snipers a platoon thing 0-1 Platoon Sniper. He's 30 points, you get one per platoon, and has our buffed rifle rules. The difficult part for me was keeping Ratlings without them becoming oveprowered in our rules. For that I limited their squad size to 5 people. Seems to work well, other than that one time the angry Assault Terminators decided to pay the Ratlings a visit. That didn't go well!!!

BYE

I think it would be pretty neat if you could use snipers in the same fashion as Tyranid Lictors. You get X snipers as an Elites choice, and each individual sniper is deployed separately in cover. Or at least they are split up however you wish as attachments to infantry squads that can target whatever they want. So you could buy 10 snipers as an elites choice, but they are scattered all over the board.

The ideas we had going over on Warseer for Human v. Ratling snipers...

Ratlings had Scout special rule, higher BS, and their cowardice rule; along with standard las sniper rifles.

Humans on the other hand, would be a 10 man team; divided into 5 sub teams of a Sniper/Spotter each, that could be independently deployed. They'd have a Sniper Rifle akin to the Vindicare's Exitus Rifle, with varying ammunition types. The Spotters would allow a reroll of a miss, or the other rule someone came up with was to allow the Sniper to pick his target out to kill, rather than randomly allocating the shot.

Personally, I'd add a Forward Observer rule onto the human sniper teams, allow for Mortars or Earthshakers to be a bit more precise; or even allow for an Orbital Strike.

BrookM wrote:Giving Cadians an upgrade sprue with a different helmet, lasgun design and grav chute does not make them Elysians.. Maybe Harakoni Warhawks but not Elysians, oh no.

How so? The basic Cadian body (legs, body, torso) is very generic. Slap on a new Elysian-styled head, gun, and grav-chute, and I think you're basically done for very little money.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:I believe Greatcoats are indeed in the pipeline for IG.

One would assume they are to be released with the Codex,

I think this makes sense. Each IG release includes a new set of plastics. 40k3 got Catachans, and 40k4 got Cadians. That leaves Valhallans / ASL / DKoK and Tallarn / Tanith as the remaining two Platoon options to cover. DKoK is hotter ATM, so we should get greatcoats. I just hope they're longcoats, not ASL shortcoats.

Kanluwen wrote:Poor Mythos. He got crap over at Warseer for stuff too

Heh. Go WarSeer!

Kanluwen wrote:The ideas we had going over on Warseer for Human v. Ratling snipers...

Personally, I like the idea of the Elite specialists being all abhumans, rather than Humans. It forces greater separation between Platoon and non-Platoon units, along with differentiating between Ratlings and (human) Sniper SWS.

Except not everyone wants to have to field abhumans That was the biggest point we tried to make over on Warseer at the pro-Ratling side.

Am I the only one who thinks that GW has something more planned for the plastic snap together Cadians they made for the 5 Packs a while ago? I don't think they would have made new molds for something as small as an $8 pack of plastics that most people don't seem to be buying...

They're not really different than the current, assemblified Cadians you get for $35. The only difference is they're assembled

And yes, I said assemblified. DEAL WITH IT!

Kanluwen wrote:Except not everyone wants to have to field abhumans That was the biggest point we tried to make over on Warseer at the pro-Ratling side.

Are the people on Warseer so lacking in imagination that they cannot deal with the concept of "counts as" Ratlings?

Wait, don't answer that.

If GW ever did a human female snipers in multiple poses, I'd take a unit of them "counts as Ratlings".

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Except not everyone wants to have to field abhumans That was the biggest point we tried to make over on Warseer at the pro-Ratling side.

Are the people on Warseer so lacking in imagination that they cannot deal with the concept of "counts as" Ratlings?

Wait, don't answer that.

The regulars at Warseer are so slowed they sometimes forget to breathe.

Yah, Imperial guard snipers should really get a boost. Though I would have one per command squad.

I think they should gat a rail rifle or equivalent witht the special rule to allocate wounds to whom ever they want based on an Initiative test.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Except not everyone wants to have to field abhumans That was the biggest point we tried to make over on Warseer at the pro-Ratling side.

Are the people on Warseer so lacking in imagination that they cannot deal with the concept of "counts as" Ratlings?

Wait, don't answer that.

If GW ever did a human female snipers in multiple poses, I'd take a unit of them "counts as Ratlings".

Or there's always the possibility that y'know...WYSIWG may not fly at some gaming groups.

And why SHOULD people have to deal with WYSIWG for something as slowed as Ratlings?
OH NOES! SPACE HOBBITZ!

Sheesh. It's the Imperium of M A N. Not The Imperium of Man and Certain Selected Abhumans Who We Don't Cleanse With Fire and Sword.

The second one just doesn't fit on a business card.