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Q: Since a walker can move and shoot all of it's weapons, can a Furioso Librarian Dreadnought move, shoot a weapon, and make a psychic shooting attack?

ok finally got to look at your FAQ my question has been answered

@ Gwar - I changed my username to reflect my new financial status.

back to topic on bloodstrike missiles... I'd like to be able to fire any number of them available during a shooting so I am with you in spirit however I would like to know if there is any precedence you might be aware of to support your FAQ ruling. I can see this possibly being actual issue where I play at from time to time. Thanks!

G

Commander Endova wrote:Q: Since a walker can move and shoot all of it's weapons, can a Furioso Librarian Dreadnought move, shoot a weapon, and make a psychic shooting attack?

Yes. It can, in fact, shoot ALL it's weapons AND make a Psychic Shooting Attack.

Black Blow Fly wrote:@ Gwar - I changed my username to reflect my new financial status.

back to topic on bloodstrike missiles... I'd like to be able to fire any number of them available during a shooting so I am with you in spirit however I would like to know if there is any precedence you might be aware of to support your FAQ ruling. I can see this possibly being actual issue where I play at from time to time. Thanks!

Seeker Missiles can also fire multiples a turn.


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Nightwatch wrote:

Commander Endova wrote:Hah. You obviously weren't around for the SW FAQ debacle. Guarantee you that 99% of Gwar!'s ruling will be the same as in the "official" house rules.

The 1% will be the font they use.

Now to be fair, I'll go with 80%, since it's GW, they have to piss all over RaW at some point or completely mess up how, say, the Fearless USR works or something.

Here's a query - Can Librarian Dreadnoughts take the Magna-grapple? I've had some people think that they cannot, because of the wording in their entry that says "ALL wargear is exchanged for ..". So by that logic then Librarian Dreads cannot have Extra Armor or Searchlights.

But then by the same thought, I don't think that Librarian Dreads can take Blood Talons, since the entry says the Librarian Dreadnought has a Force Weapon...

Thoughts?

GrimTeef wrote:Here's a query - Can Librarian Dreadnoughts take the Magna-grapple? I've had some people think that they cannot, because of the wording in their entry that says "ALL wargear is exchanged for ..". So by that logic then Librarian Dreads cannot have Extra Armor or Searchlights.

But then by the same thought, I don't think that Librarian Dreads can take Blood Talons, since the entry says the Librarian Dreadnought has a Force Weapon...

Thoughts?

Already covered my good sir!

BA.85.01 – Q: Can a Furioso Librarian purchase weapons and wargear from the options list??
A: Yes. These may be Purchased “after” the Upgrade to a Furioso Librarian. The only option unavailable is the Blood Talon option, as you no longer have the wargear to exchange for them. [Clarification]
• It can, however, be interpreted that you lose any purchased wargear and may not purchase them at all.

Thanks Gwar!, for being quick with the response. I think I'll model one up now and see how it goes.

For some reason when I dl the FAQ nothing shows up when i try to open it.

On a side note do you think that BA troops actually do get access to a landraider?

I think they do but it would seem that pure RAW says they don't.

Daggermaw wrote:For some reason when I dl the FAQ nothing shows up when i try to open it.

On a side note do you think that BA troops actually do get access to a landraider?

I think they do but it would seem that pure RAW says they don't.

What do you mean nothing shows up? What OS/Program are you using? Have you remembered to get the latest version of whatever PDF program you are using?

And actually, from Pure RaW, they do. It says they can select ANY Dedicated transport.

I use mac OSX my PDF is up to date.

RAW it says they can use any dedicated transport (see page 90) I think that can be construed to me only rhinos, razors and DP.

I think its arguable that they can't use landraiders.

Aside from the lifted verbiage issue with the SW FAQ, the answers really ought to be the same, unless GW is actually providing an errata.

Its not as if most of Gwar!'s FAQ answers aren't readily apparent in most cases, Frequently Asked does not mean hard to answer

Jack

P.S. Keep at it Gwar! some folks need the help more then others

P.P.S. I always need to retype you name so I don't ALL CAPS it like the band.

Daggermaw wrote:I use mac OSX my PDF is up to date.

RAW it says they can use any dedicated transport (see page 90) I think that can be construed to me only rhinos, razors and DP.

I think its arguable that they can't use landraiders.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=&pIndex=3&aId=8000031a&start=4

GWs got them up on thier site as using a raider... I know its not the codex but its a step in thier direction.

Gwar! wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Can a Stormraven Gunship fire one weapon via PotMS after moving Flat Out?

You know, this is a really, really good question. The first half of the rule seems to indicate you can, but then it goes to give a specific list of instances when PotMS comes into play, which does not include moving flat out, but does Include Cruising Speed.

My answer would be Yes, however, as the rule is very clearly stating you can fire "one more weapon than would normally be permitted" and then goes on to state that "therefore" you are able to fire one weapon at Cruising Speed, which would indicate that it applies to both being unable to fire and being able to fire no weapons. Consider this added

Someone today pointed out to me that under the rules for fast vehicles, it says that "Fast vehicles moving flat out may fire no weapons." Would you agree with me that this is the same situation as PotMS and popping smoke?

On the Immobilized Librarian Dread, wouldn't the codex take prescidence? If it fails its psy test, its still immobilized. If it makes it, it may use its wings and "fly" which would be a different form of movement than the usual walker movement.

Anyways, thanks for the FAQ..

Gwar! wrote:

Commander Endova wrote:Q: Since a walker can move and shoot all of it's weapons, can a Furioso Librarian Dreadnought move, shoot a weapon, and make a psychic shooting attack?

Yes. It can, in fact, shoot ALL it's weapons AND make a Psychic Shooting Attack.

I think this is incorrect, A Walker fires as a stationary vehicle, and a stationary vehicle "may fire all of [its] weapons" which is to say, number of weapons allowed to fire is equal to number of weapons on the vehicle. It is not given permission to fire an infinite number of weapons.

Meanwhile the psychic shooting attack rules say "if he is allowed to fire more than one ranged weapon per turn, he can replace the firing of any of the weapons he is allowed to fire with a psychic shooting attack".

so a Dreadnought who uses a psychic shooting attack will have to pick a single ranged weapon per psychic shooting attack to not be fired.

Drunkspleen wrote:I think this is incorrect, A Walker fires as a stationary vehicle, and a stationary vehicle "may fire all of [its] weapons" which is to say, number of weapons allowed to fire is equal to number of weapons on the vehicle. It is not given permission to fire an infinite number of weapons.

Meanwhile the psychic shooting attack rules say "if he is allowed to fire more than one ranged weapon per turn, he can replace the firing of any of the weapons he is allowed to fire with a psychic shooting attack".

so a Dreadnought who uses a psychic shooting attack will have to pick a single ranged weapon per psychic shooting attack to not be fired.

You know, you are correct Damn GW and their crazy Vehicle Psykers. What's next, a Land Raider that can make Close Combat attacks?

Sorry for the mistake and I'll fix it asap!

Edit: I actually forgot to add this to the FAQ in the first place (>.< ) I'll add it now

Actually, does this mean if the Furioso Librarian has no more ranged Weapons Left, it cannot use a Psychic Shooting attack any more?

Camarodragon wrote:On the Immobilized Librarian Dread, wouldn't the codex take prescidence? If it fails its psy test, its still immobilized. If it makes it, it may use its wings and "fly" which would be a different form of movement than the usual walker movement.

Anyways, thanks for the FAQ..

No, it won't. All the codex does is add a rule saying "Moves as if he had a Jump Pack". It does not say "Move as if he had a Jump Pack AND HE CAN ALWAYS MOVE SO HELP YOU IF YOU THINK OTHERWISE!". So you will have a rule saying "he can move as if he had a jump pack" and a Rule saying "He cannot move". Since you are not allowed to break any rules in 40k unless explicitly given permission, he cannot move.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Someone today pointed out to me that under the rules for fast vehicles, it says that "Fast vehicles moving flat out may fire no weapons." Would you agree with me that this is the same situation as PotMS and popping smoke?

Yes, the wording is the same, and like the PotMS and Smoke Launcher interaction, the answer is unclear. However, I guess that if you disallow shooting from a Smoked vehicle with PotMS , you should disalow shooting from a Flat Out vehicle with PotMS as the wording is exactly the same.

I'll be sure to update this as well

And once again, a big thank you to all you Dakka nerds for proofreading and Nitpicking


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Also, Version 1.4 is now available for download!

Dang... that is interesting. Only the Termi units say see page 91. All other infantry say see page 90. I suppose you could argue that those referencing only page 90 are limited to basic transport choices. I hope GW errata's this one for their entries to say see pages 90-91.

Homer

Homer S wrote:Dang... that is interesting. Only the Termi units say see page 91. All other infantry say see page 90. I suppose you could argue that those referencing only page 90 are limited to basic transport choices. I hope GW errata's this one for their entries to say see pages 90-91.

Homer

I disagree. It says ANY Dedicated Transport (See Page 90), because Page 90 is where the Dedicated Transport rules start. It says 91 for Termies because it says you may select a Land Raider, not ANY Dedicated Transport.

It does not say "Any Dedicated Transport from page 90". If it did, it would be 100% Clear.

It does not say "Any Dedicated Transport from page 90". If it did, it would be 100% Clear.

Or if it said they may choose any dedicated transport (see page 90 & 91)

As it is right now, it's not 100% clear.

At the very least Gwar, it could be a clarification.

Daggermaw wrote:

It does not say "Any Dedicated Transport from page 90". If it did, it would be 100% Clear.

Or if it said they may choose any dedicated transport (see page 90 & 91)

As it is right now, it's not 100% clear.

At the very least Gwar, it could be a clarification.

I do not feel that it is unclear from a rules standpoint. It says ANY Dedicated transport. If it was not meant to be ANY of them, it would say so.

Is it unclear from a General Standpoint? Yes, that's why it's in the FAQ, but rulewise it is Iron Clad.

I agree ALL means all... I was just pointing out that since the Dedicated Transport section spills onto two pages it complicates the reference. Maybe they should have made it "... any Dedicated Transport (starting on page 90)."

Homer

Homer S wrote:I agree ALL means all... I was just pointing out that since the Dedicated Transport section spills onto two pages it complicates the reference. Maybe they should have made it "... any Dedicated Transport (starting on page 90)."

Homer

I agree, they SHOULD have. If they did, it would be completely clear, and wouldn't be in my FAQ. As it is, it is a bit unclear at first glance, but it has a very clear (imo) RaW answer

Gwar! wrote:

Drunkspleen wrote:I think this is incorrect, A Walker fires as a stationary vehicle, and a stationary vehicle "may fire all of [its] weapons" which is to say, number of weapons allowed to fire is equal to number of weapons on the vehicle. It is not given permission to fire an infinite number of weapons.

Meanwhile the psychic shooting attack rules say "if he is allowed to fire more than one ranged weapon per turn, he can replace the firing of any of the weapons he is allowed to fire with a psychic shooting attack".

so a Dreadnought who uses a psychic shooting attack will have to pick a single ranged weapon per psychic shooting attack to not be fired.

You know, you are correct Damn GW and their crazy Vehicle Psykers. What's next, a Land Raider that can make Close Combat attacks?

Sorry for the mistake and I'll fix it asap!

Edit: I actually forgot to add this to the FAQ in the first place (>.< ) I'll add it now

Actually, does this mean if the Furioso Librarian has no more ranged Weapons Left, it cannot use a Psychic Shooting attack any more?

I've been mulling this over for a bit now, and I think my earlier RAW applies equally here as well, the issue of course is that, once you get down to only being allowed to fire 1 or 0 weapons, the phrase in the psychic shooting attack rules about replacing the firing is no longer applied since it only kicks in with models allowed to fire more than 1 weapon, however, even in light of that, the Psychic Shooting attack is not a weapon in and of itself but rather "Using a psychic shooting attack counts as firing a ranged weapon". So, once you get the dreadnought down to a single ranged weapon, it is still only equipped with that single ranged weapon and thus, is allowed to fire one weapon in the shooting phase, since using a Psychic shooting attack counts as firing a ranged weapon, if the psychic shooting attack is used, the remaining ranged weapon cannot be fired and vice versa.

Similarly, once a dreadnought is no longer armed with ranged weapons, he is given permission to fire 0 ranged weapons in the shooting phase, leaving him, unfortunately, unable to use his psychic shooting attacks since they count as firing a ranged weapon.

What was catching me up though, was when I shifted my focus across to Monstrous Creatures and how this could affect them, notably Hive Tyrants with no ranged weapons but who have Psychic Shooting Attacks. Here I may be incorrect, but I think given the way GW tend to use the term "instead of" to simply mean, "if you do/have x, you may not do/have y" you would apply a similar concept to the idea of replacing the firing of a ranged weapon you are allowed to fire, so even without the ranged weapons, it's simply the allowance you are foregoing to be able to use the Psychic Shooting Attack, and a Monstrous Creature is always allowed to fire 2 ranged weapons, no matter how many he may be armed with.

Stormraven > Embarked dreadnought > Disembarking dreadnought 2" within any of the access points > Dreadnought makes a 6" assault move.

Correct?

Razerous wrote:Stormraven > Embarked dreadnought > Disembarking dreadnought 2" within any of the access points > Dreadnought makes a 6" assault move.

Correct?

As long as it hasn't moved Flat Out, then yes.

Drunkspleen wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Drunkspleen wrote:I think this is incorrect, A Walker fires as a stationary vehicle, and a stationary vehicle "may fire all of [its] weapons" which is to say, number of weapons allowed to fire is equal to number of weapons on the vehicle. It is not given permission to fire an infinite number of weapons.

Meanwhile the psychic shooting attack rules say "if he is allowed to fire more than one ranged weapon per turn, he can replace the firing of any of the weapons he is allowed to fire with a psychic shooting attack".

so a Dreadnought who uses a psychic shooting attack will have to pick a single ranged weapon per psychic shooting attack to not be fired.

You know, you are correct Damn GW and their crazy Vehicle Psykers. What's next, a Land Raider that can make Close Combat attacks?

Sorry for the mistake and I'll fix it asap!

Edit: I actually forgot to add this to the FAQ in the first place (>.< ) I'll add it now

Actually, does this mean if the Furioso Librarian has no more ranged Weapons Left, it cannot use a Psychic Shooting attack any more?

I've been mulling this over for a bit now, and I think my earlier RAW applies equally here as well, the issue of course is that, once you get down to only being allowed to fire 1 or 0 weapons, the phrase in the psychic shooting attack rules about replacing the firing is no longer applied since it only kicks in with models allowed to fire more than 1 weapon, however, even in light of that, the Psychic Shooting attack is not a weapon in and of itself but rather "Using a psychic shooting attack counts as firing a ranged weapon". So, once you get the dreadnought down to a single ranged weapon, it is still only equipped with that single ranged weapon and thus, is allowed to fire one weapon in the shooting phase, since using a Psychic shooting attack counts as firing a ranged weapon, if the psychic shooting attack is used, the remaining ranged weapon cannot be fired and vice versa.

Similarly, once a dreadnought is no longer armed with ranged weapons, he is given permission to fire 0 ranged weapons in the shooting phase, leaving him, unfortunately, unable to use his psychic shooting attacks since they count as firing a ranged weapon.

What was catching me up though, was when I shifted my focus across to Monstrous Creatures and how this could affect them, notably Hive Tyrants with no ranged weapons but who have Psychic Shooting Attacks. Here I may be incorrect, but I think given the way GW tend to use the term "instead of" to simply mean, "if you do/have x, you may not do/have y" you would apply a similar concept to the idea of replacing the firing of a ranged weapon you are allowed to fire, so even without the ranged weapons, it's simply the allowance you are foregoing to be able to use the Psychic Shooting Attack, and a Monstrous Creature is always allowed to fire 2 ranged weapons, no matter how many he may be armed with.

Would this mean that a pyscher that is not given a weapon is not allowed to use a shooting attack power? In the same vain, how about units being able to fleet if the have no weapons or are not allowed to shoot?

Clarification on that one, 2" from the base of the model for disembarking as per it's entry.

Hi Gwar! I need your help!!! I posted a batrep over in the 40k Batrep forum and some unenlightened posters are giving me grief about firing multiple rockets one turn. Can you please go over & straighten them out?

Thanks!!
G

jbunny wrote:Would this mean that a pyscher that is not given a weapon is not allowed to use a shooting attack power? In the same vain, how about units being able to fleet if the have no weapons or are not allowed to shoot?

This is what I was dealing with at the end when discussing Monstrous Creatures. Much like even a model who has no ranged weapon and cannot shoot is still able to sacrifice his shooting to run, so to can a normal model or an MC simply sacrifice the allowance of shooting to use the psychic shooting attack, however, with regards to walkers specifically, once they have no ranged weapons, they are allowed to fire no ranged weapons, unlike a normal infantry model who is always allowed to fire 1 ranged weapon, even when not equipped with one.

Drunkspleen, thank you very much for typing all that out. I would have been far too lazy and would not have been able to put it as well

So, if I may ask you, do you agree with my ruling regarding this in my FAQ? That is, a [Rules Change] to allow the Libby to use a Psychic Shooting even with no weapons left?