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Gwar! wrote:So, if I may ask you, do you agree with my ruling regarding this in my FAQ? That is, a [Rules Change] to allow the Libby to use a Psychic Shooting even with no weapons left?

I don;t know if that question was directed just at Drunkenspleen, but for what it's worth, I like that ruling. It makes sense that even a mighty librarian would have to concentrate on his spellwork, rather than shooting ballistic weaponry. It doesn't make sense that losing an exterior weapon would disrupt abilities activated from the mind of the psyker. It's not like Smite is fired from the Storm bolter.

EDIT: Also, another question. Since you can opt to fire more than one Bloodstrike missile from a single Stormraven per shooting phase, when do you declare how many missiles you're going to fire? Can I shoot a missile, have it fail to do anything, and then shoot another one?

@ Gwar!:

Can you include in your FAQ a clarification of Mephiston's psychic prowess. Is it true he can use psychic powers in every PLAYER TURN which would include the opponents?

Commander Endova wrote:EDIT: Also, another question. Since you can opt to fire more than one Bloodstrike missile from a single Stormraven per shooting phase, when do you declare how many missiles you're going to fire? Can I shoot a missile, have it fail to do anything, and then shoot another one?

That should be a straight RaW: All weapon fire must be declared before any dice or measurement takes place. So if any rockets are to be fired, the number of rockets must be declared at the same time any other shooting is declared. (Unless the weapon or unit specifically says otherwise.)

Can cover saves be taken against a magna grapple' grapple effect if the grapple does not damage the unit?

I'd assume no.

What happens if a hit is scored from a magna grapple, and the grapple damages the opposing unit, but a cover save is made?

Also, are there any ill effects from a vehicle that is part of a squadron that is magna-grappled out of a squadron?

I'm thinking no ill effects, as there is nothing mentioned in the BRB, but coherency must be reestablished next turn.

What happens when a squad of sentinels, Killa Kans or war walkers has a member pulled 10 inches out of coherency, and that model is charged by the dread in question?

As per the RAW, I 'm assuming charge reactions are taken, the other vehicles move as close as possible, and hit are allocated as per the standard rules for squadrons.

To complicate matters, what happens if the one opposing squad member is charged as in the example above, and the others in the squadron are charged by separate BA unit?

Can I deep strike the sanguinary guard even though their giant wings prevent the models from being placed in base contact with each other?

Do the best you can. I'd also suggest asking if you can move slightly out of order and run them immediately after they land to make it easier - unless you actually plan to shoot, of course.

Does a jump infantry squad deepstriking in a Storm Raven benefit from hte DoA special rule?

G

Are they deep striking out of it? Yes.

Is the Storm Raven deep striking? Then no.

I think the intent is no based upon the fluff preceding the actual rule itself.

G

Re Magna grapple questions

1) If no wounds are taken, no cover save can be used to "prevent" the effects - same as Lash
2) All that is requires is that you score a penetrating hit - a sucessful cover save ignores the penetrating hit whcih suggests you would lose the chance to magnagrapple
3) no ill effects, treat like any other unit that moves out of coherency
4) Pile in as normal
5) If no mopdels can pile in, nothing moves and no ill effects.

And what I can tell that magna-grapple doesn't replace any other weapon correct? -- it's just an additional weapon?

Yes, you "take" a magna gerapple, you are not replacing it with anything

Gwar! wrote:Drunkspleen, thank you very much for typing all that out. I would have been far too lazy and would not have been able to put it as well

So, if I may ask you, do you agree with my ruling regarding this in my FAQ? That is, a [Rules Change] to allow the Libby to use a Psychic Shooting even with no weapons left?

I think it's probably the best solution, it certainly seems a bit silly that the destruction of the Dreads weapons prevents the Librarian from using psychic abilities, however the way your FAQ is worded currently doesn't really deal with the possibility of a Dreadnought having multiple psychic shooting attacks, and how this would effect it with either 0 ranged weapons remaining, or 1 ranged weapon remaining.

Basically I think BA.29.04 needs to say something along the lines of "The Furioso Librarian may always use each psychic shooting attack he has up to once per shooting phase, however, if the number of psychic shooting attacks being used is equal to or greater than the number of ranged weapons the Dreadnought is equipped with, then no ranged weapons may be used".

There's probably a better way to word it, but that is what I think is the best ruling on how to handle it.


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nosferatu1001 wrote:Re Magna grapple questions

1) If no wounds are taken, no cover save can be used to "prevent" the effects - same as Lash
2) All that is requires is that you score a penetrating hit - a sucessful cover save ignores the penetrating hit whcih suggests you would lose the chance to magnagrapple

Actually, the Magna-Grapple roll is entirely separate to the penetration roll, because the Magna-Grapple roll doesn't occur until after you know that the shot did not destroy the target, additionally the Grapple rule is triggered by a hit, which is the result of a to-hit roll.

The order would be:

Dreadnought rolls to hit and scores a hit
(Grapple rule is now triggered, if vehicle does not die as a result of this hit, you will roll to try to reel it in)
Dreadnought rolls D6+8 to penetrate and scores a penetrating hit
Target vehicle rolls a successful cover save, negating penetrating hit
Dreadnought rolls D6+8 to see if the grapple succeeds in moving the vehicle

Black Blow Fly wrote:Does a jump infantry squad deepstriking in a Storm Raven benefit from hte DoA special rule?

Black Blow Fly wrote:I think the intent is no based upon the fluff preceding the actual rule itself.

G

The matter has nothing to do with ignoring the fluff. The rule clearly states that the unit with Descent of Angels scatters D6 inches less when that unit is deep striking. Unfortunately, the transport is the one doing the scattering while the embarked unit is deep striking and the transport doesn't have Descent of Angels.

Or are you referring to the case of a unit using Skies of Blood to disembark from a Stormraven Gunship? In that, case it's clearly spelled out in the rules for that vehicle.

GWAR, you're what would happen if we removed the elitist Jackassery from the GW team. TYSM for reasonable(IMO) rulings.

I finally had a chance to look at the rules in peace, and tripped over Whirlwind of Gore's "...a single automatic hit on all enemy models in base contact".

So are the wounds allocated and armor saves taken as normal? I know I've seen fan-codices written with that wording in which the author has expected the models which were hit to take the wounds, despite the fact that hits from close combat are distributed according to the rule book's wound allocation rules.


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Drunkspleen wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Drunkspleen, thank you very much for typing all that out. I would have been far too lazy and would not have been able to put it as well

So, if I may ask you, do you agree with my ruling regarding this in my FAQ? That is, a [Rules Change] to allow the Libby to use a Psychic Shooting even with no weapons left?

I think it's probably the best solution, it certainly seems a bit silly that the destruction of the Dreads weapons prevents the Librarian from using psychic abilities, however the way your FAQ is worded currently doesn't really deal with the possibility of a Dreadnought having multiple psychic shooting attacks, and how this would effect it with either 0 ranged weapons remaining, or 1 ranged weapon remaining.

Basically I think BA.29.04 needs to say something along the lines of "The Furioso Librarian may always use each psychic shooting attack he has up to once per shooting phase, however, if the number of psychic shooting attacks being used is equal to or greater than the number of ranged weapons the Dreadnought is equipped with, then no ranged weapons may be used".

There's probably a better way to word it, but that is what I think is the best ruling on how to handle it.

Note that a Furisio Librarian can only use one psychic power per turn despite being able to take two psychic shootng powers, so could only actually use one psychic shooting power per turn in any case. So be careful of FAQ wordings which accidentally change that limit.

solkan wrote:Note that a Furisio Librarian can only use one psychic power per turn despite being able to take two psychic shootng powers, so could only actually use one psychic shooting power per turn in any case. So be careful of FAQ wordings which accidentally change that limit.

*facepalm* got caught up in all the psychic shooting attack and vehicle rules and forgot a psyker can only use 1 psychic power per turn by default, in that case Gwar your FAQ is fine as is.

Commander Endova wrote:EDIT: Also, another question. Since you can opt to fire more than one Bloodstrike missile from a single Stormraven per shooting phase, when do you declare how many missiles you're going to fire? Can I shoot a missile, have it fail to do anything, and then shoot another one?

Deuce11 wrote:Can you include in your FAQ a clarification of Mephiston's psychic prowess. Is it true he can use psychic powers in every PLAYER TURN which would include the opponents?

Both of these are very clear RaW. You have to declare all shooting at once. As for the powers, all the BA Non-Shooting powers (including the Force Weapon Powers) can be cast on the enemies turn, which means that a normal librarian can cast 1 on the enemies turn, a Upgraded one can cast 2 and Mepheston can cast 3.


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solkan wrote:I finally had a chance to look at the rules in peace, and tripped over Whirlwind of Gore's "...a single automatic hit on all enemy models in base contact".

So are the wounds allocated and armor saves taken as normal? I know I've seen fan-codices written with that wording in which the author has expected the models which were hit to take the wounds, despite the fact that hits from close combat are distributed according to the rule book's wound allocation rules.

Wounds are allocated as normal. All that happens is he gets automatic hits equal to the number of people in base contact.

As for the Magna Grapple Questions, Nos and Drunkspleen have answered them correctly.

Thank you again guys and keep an eye out for 1.5 Soon™


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Mike Leon wrote:Can I deep strike the sanguinary guard even though their giant wings prevent the models from being placed in base contact with each other?

I have not actually had the chance to touch these models, but is it ABSOLUTELY impossible or just really really hard, considering they have to be 5 models strong? If someone would be so kind as to send me pictures I would be much obliged!

Gwar what about my question regarding DoA and a deepstriking Storm Raven?

Thanks!
G

Black Blow Fly wrote:Gwar what about my question regarding DoA and a deepstriking Storm Raven?

Thanks!
G

BA.23.04 – Q: Does a Transport Vehicle that arrives from Reserves via “Deep Strike” with a unit with the “Descent of Angels” embarked upon it benefit from the “Descent of Angels” special rule?
A: No. Only units that are Deep Striking themselves and have the “Descent of Angels” Special Rule benefit. [Clarification]
• It can, however, be interpreted that the transport does benefit from the “Descent of Angels” special rule despite not having it itself.

Drunkspleen wrote:

jbunny wrote:Would this mean that a pyscher that is not given a weapon is not allowed to use a shooting attack power? In the same vain, how about units being able to fleet if the have no weapons or are not allowed to shoot?

This is what I was dealing with at the end when discussing Monstrous Creatures. Much like even a model who has no ranged weapon and cannot shoot is still able to sacrifice his shooting to run, so to can a normal model or an MC simply sacrifice the allowance of shooting to use the psychic shooting attack, however, with regards to walkers specifically, once they have no ranged weapons, they are allowed to fire no ranged weapons, unlike a normal infantry model who is always allowed to fire 1 ranged weapon, even when not equipped with one.

Playing Devils Advocate for a sec here. Can a Dread that has no weapons run or fleet in the shooting phase? It is not allowed to shoot after all.

Yes it can - this is why Drunkspleen had the "hmm" reaction.

Ok, I read through the FAQ and through a few pages of this thread, so forgive me for missing this question if it was asked already:

As Sanguinary priests are ICs, can they join a single-model infantry unit like Mephiston? Can other units that are ICs (like dante) join Mephiston as a unit? Did I miss something that specifically says Mephiston can never form a unit with any ICs?

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Ok, I read through the FAQ and through a few pages of this thread, so forgive me for missing this question if it was asked already:

As Sanguinary priests are ICs, can they join a single-model infantry unit like Mephiston? Can other units that are ICs (like dante) join Mephiston as a unit? Did I miss something that specifically says Mephiston can never form a unit with any ICs?

You are missing the IC rules themselves, which prohibit IC's joining units that are always of a single model.

Ah thanks. I knew I was missing something.

v1.5 available for download.

Aw man, I literally just got done printing 1.4.

What is in 1.5?

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Aw man, I literally just got done printing 1.4.

What is in 1.5?

xD sorry!

I added a Question about Librarians, 2 about Mephiston, 1 About Sanguninary Guard Deep Striking, 2 About Demolisher Cannons and 2 About the Magna Grapple :(

If it makes you feel any better, you'd only have to print out, perhaps 5 new pages with the new content on it, though it will have mismatched numbers

Awesome, Thanks Gwar!

Didn't mean to sound unappreciative, BTW.

Vanguard Veterans & Stormraven query...
Can VV equipped with jump packs use Heroic Intervention when using the Skies of Blood rules?

Dozer blades...
No restriction on how far hte vehicle moves, so a tank can move at full speed and the dozer blades still work?

G