Fantasy 8th Edition - Few Big Changes Confirmed

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**Pappa Shango**

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Couple of other changes..

Fast Cavalry Units have a special rule called Vanguard, basically you make a 12" move before turn 1 just like Scout in 40k.

Certain Heavy Cavalry Units have Unstoppable Charge (Can't remember right terminology as was too excited, sad I know). On the turn they Charge they gain +1 attack.

There are rules for a Dwarf Airship!!!!

Magic Resistance works differently. Magic Resistance of 1, gives a 6+ Ward save.. MR2 gives you 5+ Ward save and MR3 gives you 4+ Ward save. It is cumulative.

Thinking Dwarf Ironbreakers and a Thane using an Oath Stone (MR1) and 2 Runes of Warding (MR 2) would be a good combo.
They would have an Armour Save 3+ vs Shooting, 2+ Armour Save in Close Combat.
They would also have a Ward Save 4+ vs Magic, Ward Save of 3+ in Close Combat.
(Remember being armed with a Hand weapon and Shield gives 6+ or +1 ward save)

**Orlanth**

lixulana wrote:
0-25% lords
0-25% heroes
25%-max core
0-50% special
0-25% rare
you can not triple special/rare units

What gets me is the percentages for characters. I still think characters also need a number limit. The reason for this is the heroic goblin army. Because gobl;ins are cheaper they have access to cheaper and therefore more numberous heroes. This was one of the oddities of older versions of Warhammer, especially those that costed champaions heroes and lords at 5x 13x and 20x the cost of a basic soldier. We are in danger of going back to that, heroic goblins everywhere while the forces of order cannot afford more than one or two characters.
It doesnt feel right. Forces of order should have discount heroes.

**Voodoo Boyz**

Cheap heroes like that don't make all that much of an impact.

Sure they can be cheap, given a Great Weapon, and then they can hit hard in a Goblin block, but then you can kill them fairly easily with return attacks as they're still only WS4, T4, and no real armor to speak of.

**mikhaila**

Voodoo Boyz wrote:Cheap heroes like that don't make all that much of an impact.

Sure they can be cheap, given a Great Weapon, and then they can hit hard in a Goblin block, but then you can kill them fairly easily with return attacks as they're still only WS4, T4, and no real armor to speak of.

Ludwig and I played last night. 2999 in orcs vs ogres. Hilarious game. He put a goblin warboss on a giant spider in his unit of 8 river trolls to herd them around. Several units of 30 orc archers, 35 black orcs, and sadly, he had the smaller units.) I put a butcher, slaughtermaster, tyrant, and bsb in a unit of 14 bulls, taking advantage of the horde rule and having all 18 ogres get attacks. Needless to say, his game plan changed when that went down. I think he was mumbling '...need more bolt throwers.....' for most of the night. His general unfortunately had the screaming sword, and chewed my tyrant up fast with +4 attacks and +4 str. 8 str9 attacks hurts. Another very fun game.

The little goblin heroes he ran were effective, but as you point out, die very easily.

**Minsc**

Kinda surprised he took 35 BOrcs, sign that it was a fun game. That's just a bit too pricey a block for my taste (probably over 500pts). 'Course, can't complain: I own 51 BOrcs and thus - if I used Champions as RnF - could make a block 47 big without much difficulty.

Shaga's is going to be nasty this edition if fighting someone who has cheap characters, and about unchanged for most other lists (at least once you get back up to 2250 or 2500). Question for Dakka-ites: For WHFB, do you allow attacks to exceed the ten max (akin to 40K) or do you allow it to go as high as it can per-model? Each has their merits.

And as said by others: Cheap characters are cheap for a reason. A NG Warboss (their Lord Variety)? 5pts more than an Empire Captain, only difference is an extra Wound, Attack, and one less point of Leadership on the NG. Yes, their Lord is better than another army's cheap character only by virtue of +1 on two stats and -1 on another. Skaven aren't much better off with their cheap characters.

**mikhaila**

I've been running a similar huge troop of black orcs. They server several purposes:

A unit that outnumbers the enemy and isn't breaking from combat. Good killing power, with choice of weapons. No animosity. No panic from other units. Big unit to take advantage of the spirit totem.

The black orcs don't lead the charge. They guard the general and ASB, who in turn hold together the front units that do some killing, and then the black orcs can hit the remaining half str units and mob up.

Big units of goblins and squigs can do good, but only if they stick around. Tarpits and killy units that break on the first round don't do the job. But stubborn on a 9 with a re-roll lets them do their job. 3 rounds of HTH with 6 wide squigs takes the fight out of most units.)

**Minsc**

Speaking of which, I need to get some more Squigs. Have only three herds now, very little reason to double that: 180pts of Special for 30 models, 18 of which are WS4 S5 A2? Not the best flankers, still limited by Animosity too, but can do some hurt none the less.

EDIT: Regardless, many armies are now using - from what I've seen - a composition similar to as follows:
Wizard Lord
General-Lord if capable, otherwise Wizard Lord takes general role
BSB
2 Wizard Heroes
Rest of points to buff units with char's

**ShivanAngel**

Pappa Shango wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

(Remember being armed with a Hand weapon and Shield gives 6+ or +1 ward save)

No it doesnt.

It gives +1 to armor save and a 6+ ward save that doesnt stack

So if you have heavy armor, with hand weapon and shield and your fighting from the front (not from the flank or rear)

You get a 4+ armor save, and a 6+ ward save, if you have a better ward save they dont stack.

Also you can only use hand weapon and shields if its your only equipment. Say you have great weapons, you no longer have that option, you must use your other equipment.

**Voodoo Boyz**

mikhaila wrote:
Voodoo Boyz wrote:Cheap heroes like that don't make all that much of an impact.

Sure they can be cheap, given a Great Weapon, and then they can hit hard in a Goblin block, but then you can kill them fairly easily with return attacks as they're still only WS4, T4, and no real armor to speak of.

Ludwig and I played last night. 2999 in orcs vs ogres. Hilarious game. He put a goblin warboss on a giant spider in his unit of 8 river trolls to herd them around. Several units of 30 orc archers, 35 black orcs, and sadly, he had the smaller units.) I put a butcher, slaughtermaster, tyrant, and bsb in a unit of 14 bulls, taking advantage of the horde rule and having all 18 ogres get attacks. Needless to say, his game plan changed when that went down. I think he was mumbling '...need more bolt throwers.....' for most of the night. His general unfortunately had the screaming sword, and chewed my tyrant up fast with +4 attacks and +4 str. 8 str9 attacks hurts. Another very fun game.

The little goblin heroes he ran were effective, but as you point out, die very easily.

I managed to look at some of the rules, and for the most part it seems like there are variations on pitched battle; nothing really about objectives.

That said, for 8th, it seems like "super units" are definitely in. It's almost impossible to redirect something like that with the new rules, where as before it was so simple. With the free-reform after combat, you can't even hold with a unit and then hope to have one turned at an odd angle to flank.

Nice, big, Resilient units like this really seem like the way to go.

**ShivanAngel**

If you tarpit a unit in combat they really cant reform that well.
They can expand frontage, but they cant remove models from b2b and they are still bound by certain rules. You say, cant do a right turn and face a scarrier unit and give the older unit your flank.

Bait and flee is a lot less effective, cause now after the failed charge you just reform to keep from being hit in the flank.

**Pappa Shango**

Orlanth wrote:
lixulana wrote:
0-25% lords
0-25% heroes
25%-max core
0-50% special
0-25% rare
you can not triple special/rare units

What gets me is the percentages for characters. I still think characters also need a number limit.

I agree limiting characters would be a good idea. Don't get me wrong loads of little heroes acting as a better champion than the normal unit champion would be better. Its just when it comes to loads and loads of cheap wizards with bound items. It will get a little messy.

Also the UK Tournament lists (normally 2K) has become harder to write for certain armies. For example you can't have a Gyro copter (140 points) and a Organ Gun (120) in the same army as the points limits won't let you.

**Flashman**

Pappa Shango wrote:
Orlanth wrote:
lixulana wrote:
0-25% lords
0-25% heroes
25%-max core
0-50% special
0-25% rare
you can not triple special/rare units

What gets me is the percentages for characters. I still think characters also need a number limit.

I agree limiting characters would be a good idea. Don't get me wrong loads of little heroes acting as a better champion than the normal unit champion would be better. Its just when it comes to loads and loads of cheap wizards with bound items. It will get a little messy.

Also the UK Tournament lists (normally 2K) has become harder to write for certain armies. For example you can't have a Gyro copter (140 points) and a Organ Gun (120) in the same army as the points limits won't let you.

Your maths is off. 25% of 2000pts is 500pts. You could actually afford two Organ Guns and 1 Gyrocopter or vice versa.

**Augustus**

Melissia wrote:Huh, I might get into WFB with these changes. Looks promising...

Me too! I really like everything except pre measure, might as well be on a grid now.

**ShivanAngel**

Augustus wrote:
Melissia wrote:Huh, I might get into WFB with these changes. Looks promising...

Me too! I really like everything except pre measure, might as well be on a grid now.

meh it hardly makes a difference now, with variable charges its not big. Also there are a bunch of ways to sneakishly measure before charges and what not anyway. Sure some ways require you to be an asshat, but its following the rules.

**Augustus**

Right and with no more guess weapons it doesn't bother me to much.

It's just an old school wargamers gripe. The reason to play on a terrained scale board, beyond visual spectacle, is to introduce the unknown. I suppose the charge dice does that regardless now.

**Oshova**

I've played a few skirmish games that have had pre-measuring in them (due to this or that fluffwise) and if anything it just makes the game run a bit easier, I mean obviously there is an extent to it, such as not measuring the distance between each model every 5 minutes. But it just means that you don't end up screwing everything up just because of one little mistake, or misjudgement. It causes a slight decrease in general annoyance lol

Oshova

**Terminus**

Augustus wrote:The reason to play on a terrained scale board, beyond visual spectacle, is to introduce the unknown.

Right, until you've played on the board once or twice and have a general idea of distances based on landmarks (or just flat-out remembering the distances from previous games' measurements).

**skrulnik**

I got a look at the book the other day.

Pure Speculation. But I think the High Elf statues are going to be a kit. The pic with all the Corsair boats. The Lions and Elf statues all look identical. Similar to the SM statue stuff we saw before Honoured Imperium came out.

Also, those Dark Elf Corsair ships look identical to each other. Could these be another kit? Ships seem to make sense for Dark Elves big kit, if GW are going to do this.

My impression of the book was that it had a lot of cool stuff. But about 200 pages of unnecessary padding. I feel they did this to up-charge the book.

Background is good. A 20+pg profile of a Chaos incursion I've never heard of is padding.

The WotR book is huge, and cost $60. But it had all the lists for the game, and scenarios, and some background.
This book has 125pgs of rules, and the rest, outside of a few scenarios, could have been a separate book.

**ShivanAngel**

The only thing premeasuring and no guess weapons does is help bridge the gap between veteran players, and new players to the game.
When i first started i was very put off by guess weapons because they were almost never worth their points cause i just missed all the time. Eventually i just practiced a few times a week guessing random distances and got very good at them. Same with charge ranges.

In all honesty some might consider this skill, however, i consider this more of a barrier to entry into warhammer. This will not effect veteran players at all, and will help newer players who had trouble with this phase of the game. The veteran player is still at an advantage just because of knowing how to move, bait, flank, multi charge, unit priority, the list goes on. This just removes a small element.

**Kroothawk**

skrulnik wrote:Pure Speculation. But I think the High Elf statues are going to be a kit. The pic with all the Corsair boats. The Lions and Elf statues all look identical. Similar to the SM statue stuff we saw before Honoured Imperium came out.

Also, those Dark Elf Corsair ships look identical to each other. Could these be another kit? Ships seem to make sense for Dark Elves big kit, if GW are going to do this.

The Lions are 3-up-copies from the HE chariot, the statues are 3-up-copies of a Dire-Avenger-bit, the Corsair ships look to simple for a future release (old Chaos Dragon head at the front?).

That said, the terrain guys use a lot of ad-hoc casts. If they only sold some of these.

BTW, I will use this Ziterdes ship for my Dark Elves:

http://www.ziterdes.de/ziterdes/en/produkte/article_detail.php?we_objectID=2766632&catID=72&subcatID=85

skrulnik wrote:My impression of the book was that it had a lot of cool stuff. But about 200 pages of unnecessary padding. I feel they did this to up-charge the book.

Background is good. A 20+pg profile of a Chaos incursion I've never heard of is padding.

The WotR book is huge, and cost $60. But it had all the lists for the game, and scenarios, and some background.
This book has 125pgs of rules, and the rest, outside of a few scenarios, could have been a separate book.

... that the main target customers wouldn't buy.
And it is 30 pages of pure and essential scenarios and further 60 pages on how to do your own scenarios/legendary battles/campaigns. No serious gamer should miss that. IMHO the book is worth every penny and succeeds in creating interest and enthusiasm in beginner as well as veteran.

**skrulnik**

Kroothawk wrote:The Lions are 3-up-copies from the HE chariot, the statues are 3-up-copies of a Dire-Avenger-bit, the Corsair ships look to simple for a future release (old Chaos Dragon head at the front?).

That said, the terrain guys use a lot of ad-hoc casts. If they only sold some of these.

BTW, I will use this Ziterdes ship for my Dark Elves:

http://www.ziterdes.de/ziterdes/en/produkte/article_detail.php?we_objectID=2766632&catID=72&subcatID=85

The Lions are not 3 up copies. Look at the tail. the tails on my chariot lions are behind and away from the body.
The statues have the tail wrapped to the body tightly, as you would expect of a statue.

Fair enough on the Corsair ships. But I didn't recognize the figureheads.

**Mattbranb**

Did anyone notice in the latest WD where they allowed Warriors of Chaos Tzeentch to stack their ward save on top of their shield parry, giving them a 3+, 5+ in HTH? I know WD is a bad place to base stuff off, but the thought of large blocks of Tzeentch guys with a 3+/3+ ward (assuming you roll good with a warshrine) just scares me.

Is it me or are they building towards 3000 points being the new standard?

**Killjoy00**

I think that's because the mark of Tz specifically says it increases whatever ward save you have, unlike most ward saves.

**Zad Fnark**

I don't know if I like the shield bonus becoming a Ward save. It sort of flies in the face of the "supernatural-ness" that a ward save is supposed to be.

In the end, it is a slight boost to the warrior using it, due to it's not being stopped by high strength attacks, but can you imagine an Empire State Troop blunting Kholek's magic hammer?

ZF-

**Kirasu**

Get wizard who can ignore miscasts somehow + power scroll + 6 dice + bironas timewarp on your entire army

Move up.. if youre charged so what you got ASF and +1 attack that they cant dispel. Next turn any unit with MV 5 or higher now has MV 10 to charge with
If you have enough dice go ahead and cast the -1 to hit on a unit or all your units as well!

So many silly combos with a power scroll

**Kroothawk**

Look here: Fantasy Flight Games advertises the upcoming 8th edition of Warhammer:

Warhammer 8th Edition Fantasy Release July 10

A time of great change is upon us. The Winds of Magic are boiling over from the north. The Empire is beset on all sides by the enemies of its forefathers. The lands of Bretonnia are rife with intrigue. The Elves continue to wage their embittered civil war. The Dwarven Book of Grudges continues to burst at the seams with misdeeds recorded by hand. Bring forth your armies, sharpen your swords, and make battle as you see fit, for Warhammer Fantasy Battles 8th Edition is upon us!

Come into Fantasy Flight Games'' Event Center to pick up your copy of the newest edition of Warhammer Fantasy Battles on July 10th, and while you're here, take part in the numerous events we have planned for you. Do you fancy yourself a quick and masterful assembler of models? Then prepare to throw down with other like-minded individuals. Enter our speed painting competition, or our banner design contest. Make sure to bring in 500 points of miniatures so we can give you a quick play-through of a couple of turns in the new edition. Or get involved in the mega battle in the afternoon that will give you the full feel of the tumultuous battles that happen throughout the Old World.

The new play style offers a quicker, grittier battle between you and your opponent. The risks and rewards of magic are far greater than before. Volleys of fire can finally decimate the enemy as war always intended it too. Powerful leaders take to the battlefield and bring mighty powers down upon the heads of the common soldier. Come in on July 10th and experience all of the changes that await you in Warhammer Fantasy Battles 8th edition.

Linky

Must be the first non-GW-internal advertisment for 20 years