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I think the TK chariot charge surviving will depend on whether impact hits still work as before. The whole striking on initiative will make them a bit weaker but most of the pain from them comes from the impact hits.

Given the information here I think I will need to drastically change my TK around.

ASF still works as it did before but great weapons have been given Always strikes last special rule so with White Lions and Swordmasters the ASF and ASL cancel each other out (This is directly mentioned in the new rule book) and they strike now in initiative order but do not benefit from the reroll to hits that ASF now grants.

Also Battle Standard Bearers are almost going to be a necessity as in 8th edition they allow rerolls to panic, break checks, fear and terror tests and every leadership based tests that one might have to do (Including stupidity). Combine that with the general's leadership tests that can now be used for stubborn and a big block of goblins within 12" of both of them and you have a nigh unbreakable unit that can tarpit anything in the game for quite a few turns. (I had a unit of Dragon Princes with my mounted lord fight 4 rounds of combat against the goblins and just because they had more ranks than me they were stubborn and they were within the BSB and General)

Another big change that I am not sure if anyone has mentioned is that terrain has been changed so that there are no such things as difficult terrain any more. It is either open or dangerous to certain units. Forests no longer hamper movement for infantry however cavalary, chariots and one other type now take a dangerous terrain check when they enter the forest and on a 1 they take a wound no armor save. Marshes are identical to this as well.

The biggest change was made to magic and combat and miscasting magic is just plain brutal. You only ever miscast on a roll of double 6's and the new table it just death to mages. (My lvl 2 high elf mage killed 5 white lions in his unit and 2 goblin spider riders with a miscast and then killed himself when I rolled a 2. Strength 10 large templates hurt) Also there is no longer going to be single dicing spells unless they are considered bound spells as if you roll a single 1 or 2 on any dice the spell does not go off and that wizard cannot cast spells for the rest of the turn. This is the same if you fail to meet a spells casting value when casting magic so even though magic became much more powerful it also is a great risk to try for that 24+ casting value spell (of which there are many in the updated lores) so that he is not able to cast any magic for the rest of the turn.

There are a ton more changes and I had time to sit and plow through the rule book for 2.5 hours before playing a game with my brother. I do not remember every rule but I can answer some questions if there are some.

Spookymancer wrote:ASF still works as it did before but great weapons have been given Always strikes last special rule so with White Lions and Swordmasters the ASF and ASL cancel each other out (This is directly mentioned in the new rule book) and they strike now in initiative order but do not benefit from the reroll to hits that ASF now grants.

See, I was wondering about that. I knew about the ASF and ASL cancelling each-other out, but that diminishes the worth of those two units a bit now.

I hate it. I have so much 40K Orks to paint, and here I am lusting after Fantasy.

So how do combat resolution and break tests work now?

Jin wrote:

Spookymancer wrote:ASF still works as it did before but great weapons have been given Always strikes last special rule so with White Lions and Swordmasters the ASF and ASL cancel each other out (This is directly mentioned in the new rule book) and they strike now in initiative order but do not benefit from the reroll to hits that ASF now grants.

See, I was wondering about that. I knew about the ASF and ASL cancelling each-other out, but that diminishes the worth of those two units a bit now.

Somewhat, but with everything going in Initiative order, it still means that if my orcs charge your 12 swordmasters, your going to get 18 attacks, going first. A horde unit will get to strike back at you, and you'll take some losses. But any smaller units might just be wiped on impact.

Exactly why you are FORCED to take bigger blocks now, which is why I upped my Gors to 24 strong instead of 18, you'll need the numbers.

I really am going to like seeing units of clanrats/NG's with spears 10 wide. Such an epic feeling.

mikhaila wrote:Somewhat, but with everything going in Initiative order, it still means that if my orcs charge your 12 swordmasters, your going to get 18 attacks, going first. A horde unit will get to strike back at you, and you'll take some losses. But any smaller units might just be wiped on impact.

I actually wouldn't use Horde against Sword masters, as you don't get any extra attacks past the seven wide (well, beyond the third rank) and - depending on the unit size - arguably lose more faster with them Horde-formation.

Example: Two units thirty big [by the time they reach combat] fight the Great Swords. One is ten wide, and has two full ranks after the first. The other is seven wide, and has three full ranks after the first plus two people lounging in the back. Each takes ten casualties, so 33% casualties. Now, the first unit lost a single rank, but seven attacks to boot. The second unit is down the last two models, one full rank, and three of the models in another. Each gets the same number of attacks now.

Don't get me wrong, in this case horde-sized units (see: Any big enough to take advantage of that rule) will do superior to the smaller units (If that unit was 26 or less models when it reached combat, the 7-wide unit would have lost attacks too). Then again, you also have the problem of having picked a 25mm combat unit against a 20mm elite one: Something 20mm in general (or, especially, 20mm and Elite) would have benefitted from the Horde in a theoretical formation much more readily than an eight-wide unit. It also is working off me saying the Orcs would "only" be 30 big when they reach combat: If you're going to try getting the max attacks from Horde, you really need to make sure you keep all those models intact with padding by the time you reach combat. Don't buy Horde formations 30-big for non-spearmen: Take 40-50. Don't take Spear Elves 24 big: Take them 30-36.

Red_Lives wrote:So how do combat resolution and break tests work now?

Work essentially the same, except new modifiers (and old ones gone). No more outnumbering, for instance. And now charging is +1. But generally the same.

Is the no more than 25% for lords, Specials and Rares and no less than 25% for Core actually in the book? It's something that makes me nervous...

its 25% lords, 25% core, 50% special and 25% rare.

Also you are unable to have more than 3 duplicate special units, under 3k games.

Is it 25% lords and heroes or 25% lords and no restrition on heroes?

25% lords and heroes, forgot about heroes :p

Big change - you cannot move within 1" of ANY unit unless charging - this includes friends.

Also True LOS is used, no more skinks entirely hiding saurus cavalry. However if you shoot at a unit screened by another unit that unit counts as being in hard cover, i.e. -2 to hit.

Redirecting is back, and you declare charge reactions after each declaration, NOT after all declarations are made. Redirecting is only if a unit flees and you have another unit in charge range - take a Ld test, if passed you can redirect (can only do this once, as youd expect) otherwise you must chase the origianl fleeing unit.

IF you catch a unit that has fled you can take a Ld test to perform a free reform after finishing the charge move - handy to avoid so much bait and flee and being hammered by a flank charge.

Finally you CANNOT DECLARE an impossible charge - if M+2D6" is less tha nthe distance you have just premeasured, you cannot make the declaration.

Thanks to Mr. Scryer in the darkness for the pic.

Demons also get a release of their spells sooner rather than later. This is a limited release, as will they all be AFAIK.

I LOVE these cards. LOVE THEM. I really hope they aren't made into a limited-release item. They're really a great idea. I've just always printed out my own before, glued them to old MtG cards and put them in sleeves, but I'll buy multiples of these for each army I own.

Same here!

Any word on whether or not the magic cards are 'limited' or, hopefully, not?

The ones with the spells from the rulebook aren't, AFAIK, I think it's just the race/book specific ones that are. I guess one thing we'll see from now on will be a release of cards with each and every army as they roll out.

Any word on whether there will be cards for wood elves (the lore of Athel Loren) reds8n?

Also, are the magic lores for the specific army books changing in the erratas?

Also, I haven't confirmed this myself, but a huge thing people seem to be missing about magic is that you can only take a spell once in an army. (Unless that rumor's wrong, I need to check it out myself) So hopefully that will tone down some of the insane big spells... there'll only be one of them in the army.

mikhaila wrote:Somewhat, but with everything going in Initiative order, it still means that if my orcs charge your 12 swordmasters, your going to get 18 attacks, going first. A horde unit will get to strike back at you, and you'll take some losses. But any smaller units might just be wiped on impact.

For the most part, Swordmasters will still dish out quite a bit of damage. However, given the increased amount of shooting (including true LOS, despite the -2 modifier) and the 15 point price-tag that Swordmasters have, it'll be difficult, I think, to get them in CC with enough bodies to get the job done without losing out to SCR. Granted, this is speculation and I haven't run any sort of math-hammering to see how valid my point is. Still, I'll reserve the right to amend my opinion after a few games .

At least the White Lions now have double their attacks.

RiTides wrote:Any word on whether there will be cards for wood elves (the lore of Athel Loren) reds8n?

Also, are the magic lores for the specific army books changing in the erratas?

I am told we will see cards for each and every army....eventually.

I don't think the erratta will be changing the lores themselves, perhaps the odd tweak here and there. It's mainly clarifications I think and a few changes.. heard something the...err...."Ring of Hotek" ( ? ) being changed but.. how/what/why I have no idea.

One thing that I have not been able to find is the answer to this.

On magic you roll 2d6 to determine how many power and dispel dice. Is that roll once per game per player or rolled each magic phase?

Each time

Per magic phase.

Thanks... I like that better... some phases you will rock others you roll snake eyes... that right there should balance things a bit.

TheFirstBorn wrote:its 25% lords, 25% core, 50% special and 25% rare.

Also you are unable to have more than 3 duplicate special units, under 3k games.

does this mean that my Wood Elf army with a Treeman Ancient as it's lord is boned?

The Treeman Ancient after wargear is something like 350 points, and counts as a lord, and rare choice. So does this mean that in a 2000 point army I now only have 150 points left for heros/other lords and 150 points left for rares?
this would force me to do away with my second treeman and cut me down to maybe 2 gakky branch nymphs.

At this point it isn't clear abouts stuff that counts under multiple slots (like special characters that are both a hero and a lord slot). I assume that the errata will clear that sort of thing up on a case by case basis.

Treeman Ancient isn't that great now anyway. I think the money Wood Elf army is going to be a Glade Guard gunline, a Spellweaver with beast (or life if they can take it I forget) magic then some units of Treekin and Treemen to put pressure on the flanks.

Hrm. Apparently there're debates on whether or not HE's with GW's still gain the Re-roll benefits for havin >= I.

Can someone provide the exact wording of ASF and ASL interaction?

Basically if you have both ASF and ASL, they cancel and you go by straight I. However the High Elf book has some funky wording that they strike first regardless of their weapon. Previously there was no always strike last rule at all (it was a property of the great weapon) and no canceling effect since everyone with ASF stuck first with great weapons. It's really rules lawyery and I would assume they function like everyone else; the faq with hopefully clear it up one way or the other.

Jin wrote:Hrm. Apparently there're debates on whether or not HE's with GW's still gain the Re-roll benefits for havin >= I.

Can someone provide the exact wording of ASF and ASL interaction?

They don't. The two rules cancel each other out, and they strike at Initiative, with no rerolls.