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FlammingGaunt wrote:

ShivanAngel wrote:Does anyone know if the slanns ability that lets them roll an addition dice for each spell counts towards the 12 PD.

The way its written im thinking no, and that is going to make the lizard magic phase pretty damn scary.

Judgeing by the post above me it looks like the max dice you can throw at a spell being caster level +1 is gone...

That just sounds cheesy, throwing a nuts amount of dice at a spell on a cheap (like 60 point) level one wizard...

The slann gets to add 1 free dice per spell and yes slann are scary, they've always been. so technically you could cast a spell with 13 dice ending up with 13d6+4 to your cast.

Then when you miscast it you just cupped hands!

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Their one and only scroll! All Scrolls are now unique items (take THAT boring Scroll Caddies!)

On the plus side, some armies won't mind: They can handle a lot of the Dispel requirements without 'em. Take, for instance, Dwarves. Dwarves are - as the rules stand now - shutting down the opponent's magic phase. Single Rune Lord + Anvil = +5 Dispel Dice (+2 for being Dwarves, +2 for Rune Lord, +1 for Anvil) at +2 to all dispelling attempts.

I wonder if this means we're going to start seeing things like the Black Cube used more often, though.

Quite possibly. Is actually one of my least favourite things in 7th (and indeed all previous Eds I have played) that my might spell of doom, with a mental casting cost is generally scuppered by a boring 25 points 'Get Out Of Poop Free' item!

Now, the Scroll is something coveted, to be used when it's critical, and not just as a convenience. Amen on that one if you ask me!

Uriels: the only big changes for chariots are
1) they can't be smashed by s7 any more
2) I didn't see anything in the book preventing them from marching.

So, some slight buffs, but countered by the fact that they can never break ranks when flanking or rear charging (there's no such thing as US any more, rank breaking is determined by having at least 2 full ranks including the first). Also, since almost everything is going to be stubborn against you (due to having more ranks than you have, the rule is called "steadfast") you won't be able to plow people under in one turn... which means you probably melt from combat res.

I'd say overall you're going to have a very hard time. But it's not a function of the chariot rules, it's a function of the rules for block infantry and so on.

Definately becoming a game of mutual support now. Chariots, Hydras, Giants etc are all pretty pokey still, but if you want to break their target, they will need to be supported in some way, rather than just bundling in on the flank as they have done for some years.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Definately becoming a game of mutual support now. Chariots, Hydras, Giants etc are all pretty pokey still, but if you want to break their target, they will need to be supported in some way, rather than just bundling in on the flank as they have done for some years.

This change is probably what makes me the most excited about 8th edition.

No more hero on dragon charging a unit of infantry and auto breaking them. The lord is going to be a supporting character for the rest of his army, not a fly around charging blocks of infantry.

Though stuck into the flank, he is still rock hard enough to slowly mash up the unit.

Things are changing a lot in Fantasy, without altering the basic rules. If only 3rd Ed 40k had done this!

Minsc- I'm sure it just says +2 to dispell roles for Dwarves, not +2 dispell dice and +2 to the rolls.

Mick

Mick A wrote:Minsc- I'm sure it just says +2 to dispell roles for Dwarves, not +2 dispell dice and +2 to the rolls.

Mick

Dwarves get +2 to their Dispel Attempts for being Dwarves, that's in the BRB. Meanwhile, the Dwarf Book also says they generate +2 to Dispel Dice as an army rule.

It makes sense, sorta, as it means that you always count as having a Level 2 wizard on hand to dispel something: Not quite as good as if you had a Level 4 w/ a Staff of Sorcery (Hello, +5 to all dispel attempts), but better than no wizards and more reliable than a solitary level 2.

Minsc wrote:

Mick A wrote:Minsc- I'm sure it just says +2 to dispell roles for Dwarves, not +2 dispell dice and +2 to the rolls.

Mick

Dwarves get +2 to their Dispel Attempts for being Dwarves, that's in the BRB. Meanwhile, the Dwarf Book also says they generate +2 to Dispel Dice as an army rule.

It makes sense, sorta, as it means that you always count as having a Level 2 wizard on hand to dispel something: Not quite as good as if you had a Level 4 w/ a Staff of Sorcery (Hello, +5 to all dispel attempts), but better than no wizards and more reliable than a solitary level 2.

Keep in mind that all the army books will receive an errata. It is completely plausible that that +2 to dispel attempts is intended to replace the +2 dispel dice in the army book considering the drastic changes that the magic phase has undergone.

Yeah, I played a game the other day under 8th, first time I ever got off the dreaded 13th spell. So magic paraphrased is this.

-Generate power dice by rolling 2d6, the oppenent then gains dispell dice equal to the highest of the two dice (example> Player 1 rolls 2d6 and gets a 4 and a 2, he gets 6 power dice, player 2 gets 4 dispell dice.) You can never have more then 12 power dice in your pool, the only exception are dark elves.

-A wizard can never roll more then 6 dice to cast a spell, and adds his wizard lvl to casting and dispell attempts.

- You roll a dice for each wizard, (called channeling) to see if you can generate extra dice (5 or a 6 required) This cannot put you above 12 power dice. Though.

-You roll for spells, and if you get doubled, (roll two 3's for example) one stays the other you PICK. This also works for other wizards in your army as you cannot have 2 of the same spell unless it is a specific upgrade (A necromancer for example) or unless you already know all the spells in a lore already.

-You can never miscast, but irresitable force casts your spell with no chance of dispell and then makes something bad happen to you.

-The BRB lores have an attribute that applies to a mage whom uses it.

-Bound Spells need power dice

This means that the best 2 casters now are Dark Elves, with the sacrificing to make dice, and Slaan, with the free extra dice each spell. However they are errating every army for use in 8th so wait until you see it before losing all hope.

I'm pretty sure you channel on a 6+, not 5+. There's a magic item that lets you channel on a 5+.

Yes, it's a 6+ to channel (get an extra dice by rolling a 6). Also, irresistible force cast = miscast, they're one and the same now. If you roll two 6's attempting to cast, it goes off irresistibly, and you have to roll on the miscast table.

Interesting about getting to pick the spell if you roll a duplicate (for any wizard). I'll have to double check that, that sounds very good (not for me, but in general )

Yea you get to pick on repeats

One interesting thing also is the kamikaze spell.

Imagine a grey seer.

Throw literally a brick of dice (like 8-10) and you will get double 6's. Boom theres your dreaded 13th spell.

Grey seers are expensive at 240 points, but if you can throw that spell at a say, 300-400 point unit, you make your points back instantly.

You also might get lucky and not even lose your grey seer and you can do it again.

I think you can only throw a maximum of 6 dice at a spell, no matter what. Still massive potential to get basically anything off with that, though- especially with +4 to your cast by using a lvl 4 caster.

Am I correct in thinking that Magic Resistance gives an upgraded ward save???

For Example - Slaan Mage Priest with MR3 has a 2+ Ward Save vs Magic???

If that is the case, a Slaan with Higher State of Consciousness and Unfathomable Presence would be a just a bit tasty as he can only be effected by magical attacks and against spells he has a 2+ Ward Save.

Nope, no ward save, just the extra dispel dice (and yes it is channel on a 6+ i was thinking of the warpstone inducer my char took). Slaan however are maybe the best non-named char mage you can take. +4 on casts and dispels, take the entire lore of magic you want, (some of the new lores are amazing, One had a spell that if cast first buffed the rest of the spells from that lore, i think it was life or beasts. ) And they still have the ability to roll a free dice with every spell they cast, these as of yet do not count towards you 12 dice limit, but keep an eye out for errata coming out to change this, in fact with the idea that you will get an erratta for every fantasy army there could be massive changes.

I'm pretty sure you are wrong here doubled - Magic resistance works differently now. It increases your ward save.

Plus, even if errata changes the +1 dice ability, it would only change it for the first spell you cast, if you started with 12 dice. The limit is only on 12 dice at one time, so adding more in after you cast spells is perfectly fine.

I honestly dont see the +1 dice to each spell counting towards the 12 PD, as you can only have 12 PD at any one time. So dark eleves could have 10 power dice, cast a spell, use power of darkness, gain 3 more, cast a spell or two, next wizard uses power of darkness, gains 2 etc etc.

Someone inform me if i read that rule wrong.

It increases your ward save.

I remember seeing that MR1 grants you a 6+ ward against magic. MR2 5+, and MR3 4+.

If it adds to your existing ward save, the Bloodthirster's ward save becomes quite strong against magic, and Flesh Hounds MR3 would be truly ferocious.

OK wait. so its

25% lord
25% heroes
25% min core
50% max special
25% rare

shouldn't core and special be switched? and why does this add up to 150%? Makes no sense to me.

Therion wrote:

It increases your ward save.

I remember seeing that MR1 grants you a 6+ ward against magic. MR2 5+, and MR3 4+.

If it adds to your existing ward save, the Bloodthirster's ward save becomes quite strong against magic, and Flesh Hounds MR3 would be truly ferocious.

It is cumunalative

Grey seer on screaming bell, the whole thing has a 4+ ward save, 2+ vs magic!

lord marcus wrote:OK wait. so its

25% lord
25% heroes
25% min core
50% max special
25% rare

shouldn't core and special be switched? and why does this add up to 150%? Makes no sense to me.

Maximum of any of those (barring Core) is 25%/50%(for specials). They don't have to add up fully to the 25%/50%. You can spend 0% on Lords and Rares, if need be.

Minsc wrote:

Mick A wrote:Minsc- I'm sure it just says +2 to dispell roles for Dwarves, not +2 dispell dice and +2 to the rolls.

Mick

Dwarves get +2 to their Dispel Attempts for being Dwarves, that's in the BRB. Meanwhile, the Dwarf Book also says they generate +2 to Dispel Dice as an army rule.

It makes sense, sorta, as it means that you always count as having a Level 2 wizard on hand to dispel something: Not quite as good as if you had a Level 4 w/ a Staff of Sorcery (Hello, +5 to all dispel attempts), but better than no wizards and more reliable than a solitary level 2.

Doubtful that dwarves will get all that after the FAQ. Runelords and Runesmiths got dispel dice in 6th and 7th editions in a similar way to wizards generating them. Wizards no longer generate them, I doubt if smiths will either. I suspect that a Runelord may give +4 to dispell and a Runesmith +2 to dispel (or +1/+3) in a similar way to wizards.

Lots of stuff in the basic rulebooks will change based on the information we get on the 10th. Supposedly there is a substantial FAQ/Errata for all armies. I'm not getting too attatched to any army list before then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

doubled wrote:You can never miscast, but irresitable force casts your spell with no chance of dispell and then makes something bad happen to you.

The 'something bad' is actually called a miscast in the 8th edition book. So while double 1's won't cause a miscast, there is still a miscast table. Very important since some things in the game still cause automatic miscasts.

FlammingGaunt wrote:

ShivanAngel wrote:Does anyone know if the slanns ability that lets them roll an addition dice for each spell counts towards the 12 PD.

The way its written im thinking no, and that is going to make the lizard magic phase pretty damn scary.

Judgeing by the post above me it looks like the max dice you can throw at a spell being caster level +1 is gone...

That just sounds cheesy, throwing a nuts amount of dice at a spell on a cheap (like 60 point) level one wizard...

The slann gets to add 1 free dice per spell and yes slann are scary, they've always been. so technically you could cast a spell with 13 dice ending up with 13d6+4 to your cast.

I have read the rules fully twice, so I thought I'd comment on this really quick:

Even without a FAQ the Slann's +1 PD ability can always add to the roll.

The ruling is that the Power Dice (and dispell dice) POOL can never exceed 12. As soon as you take dice to cast a spell, they have been removed from the pool. Furthermore, the Slann's ability adds directly to the roll, not to the power dice pool. Slann is just fine.

However you can't chuck 13 dice at a spell. No caster is limited by level any longer on how many dice they can use, but all casters are capped at 6 dice (dispells have no cap). Therefore the slann could use 7 dice max if he used Focus Rumination specifically because the ability says it can be in excess of his normal PD limits.

I concur.

lord marcus wrote:OK wait. so its

25% lord
25% heroes
25% min core
50% max special
25% rare

shouldn't core and special be switched? and why does this add up to 150%? Makes no sense to me.

it would be more correct to say

0-25% lords
0-25% heroes
25%-max core
0-50% special
0-25% rare

you can not triple special/rare units

giving you a requirement of 25% core + 1 hero/lord as minimum army then spend points up to the maximums given or you run out of points which ever comes first.

It is cumunalative

Grey seer on screaming bell, the whole thing has a 4+ ward save, 2+ vs magic!

Bloodthirster with Collar of Khorne, 5+ ward save, 2+ ward against magic. Every Khorne unit has tons of magic resistance.

Does it work against spells only, or also magical weapons and other attacks that are magical? Hilarious.

Spells only for Magic Resistance.