Geez, how is GW going to snag new players now?

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**Andrew1975**

A "Target Exclusive GI-Joe" kit will be sold in more Target stores in one state alone than there are Games Workshop official shops worldwide.

I would doubt that target sold more of these battle boxes than GW sold baneblades. I can't prove that, but i doubt it. Yes there are more Targets than their are GW stores....Games stores and hobby shops in general though.....I would doubt that too. Guess what target does sell, Games and models! Targets and Walmarts and GW will never do business with each other as the stores have a policy about profits and cost of production. GW has priced themselves out of these avenues of sale.

Its a good comparison...Go by some $6 dollar superglue then.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

But that's the main argument, isn't it?

If GW lowered their prices, they will sell more?

Thank you sir, you may move to the head of the class.

**Kanluwen**

Except they won't, simply because they're a niche product.

Not everyone is interested in miniature wargaming, assembling or painting models. We see that all the time here with the "WILL YOU PLAY UNPAINTED MODELS? IF NOT YOU'RE A JERK!" or "WHY DOES EVERYONE PLAY LIKE A TOURNAMENT?!" styled threads.

This isn't a hard concept to grasp. It really isn't. Would everyone ride motorcycles if the prices on them went down?

What about golfing, would everyone take that up if clubs were free?

No. They really wouldn't.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Andrew1975 wrote:
A "Target Exclusive GI-Joe" kit will be sold in more Target stores in one state alone than there are Games Workshop official shops worldwide.

I would doubt that target sold more of these battle boxes than GW sold baneblades. I can't prove that, but I doubt it. Its a good comparison...Go buy some $6 dollar superglue then.

Then you'd be an uneducated heathen. 'Exclusive' toy sets like that sell out within the first few days of their releases, from the collectors snapping up multiples for themselves and to also sell extras for exorbitant prices on Ebay. Hasbro then reissues that same set as a general release to that specific store chain and makes pure profit on impulse buys from children and their parents.

Andrew1975 wrote:

But that's the main argument, isn't it?

If GW lowered their prices, they will sell more?

Thank you sir, you may move to the head of the class.

Doesn't take much to move to the head of a class when you're sitting in kindergarten, now does it?

**Eldar Own**

I don't think it's the price of the actual set that'll put people off. For example if two brothers or whatever want to get inot wargaming, they get an army for £30 each and get all the rules and dice to play the game.

I think that the parents, after learning what the hobby's about, won't decline on the basis on that the starter set is expensive, but rather that the hobby is expensive overall. Or non-price realted things, such as that their kids won't have the patience to sit down and assemble or paint their minatures etc...

**Andrew1975**

Except they won't, simply because they're a niche product

Yeah, because Target and Walmart don't sell niche products? What planet do you live on? They don't sell products the general public won't buy. They are not going to sell a $99 dollar game that nobody but a fanatic can see any value in. Because there is no value!

They sold tones of the old MB/GW Battle Masters and heroquest sets. You had to build and paint those too. But they were a value. See my earlier post if you don't know.

They sell miniature games at these stores. They sell things that have to be assembled. But if you product does not meet a cost to goods analysis Walmart will tell you to take a hike until you cut the price to a point where it is affordable.

Then you'd be an uneducated heathen. 'Exclusive' toy sets like that sell out within the first few days of their releases, from the collectors snapping up multiples for themselves and to also sell extras for exorbitant prices on Ebay. Hasbro then reissues that same set as a general release to that specific store chain and makes pure profit on impulse buys from children and their parents.

That's your argument then show some numbers? I see an awful lot of $100 bane blades. I have not seen many of these boxes in my life. There are by far more baneblades on ebay right now than there are of these boxes.

**pombe**

Kanluwen wrote:Except they won't, simply because they're a niche product.

Sure, there is a limit to the population size of their target demographic. But that isn't necessarily set in stone.

Kanluwen wrote:Not everyone is interested in miniature wargaming, assembling or painting models. We see that all the time here with the "WILL YOU PLAY UNPAINTED MODELS? IF NOT YOU'RE A JERK!" or "WHY DOES EVERYONE PLAY LIKE A TOURNAMENT?!" styled threads.

Why would GW care what we do with their miniatures so long as we buy them?

Kanluwen wrote:This isn't a hard concept to grasp. It really isn't. Would everyone ride motorcycles if the prices on them went down?

What about golfing, would everyone take that up if clubs were free?

No. They really wouldn't.

Actually, I disagree. While you might not see a horde of people suddenly take up motorcycling or golf if they became more affordable, you would certainly see an increase in the number of new people entering the market to try it out. Also, if the prices came down, I bet motorcycle enthusiasts would purchase more motorcycles and avid golfers would buy more golf clubs.

**agnosto**

Kanluwen wrote:Except they won't, simply because they're a niche product.

Not everyone is interested in miniature wargaming, assembling or painting models. We see that all the time here with the "WILL YOU PLAY UNPAINTED MODELS? IF NOT YOU'RE A JERK!" or "WHY DOES EVERYONE PLAY LIKE A TOURNAMENT?!" styled threads.

This isn't a hard concept to grasp. It really isn't. Would everyone ride motorcycles if the prices on them went down?

What about golfing, would everyone take that up if clubs were free?

No. They really wouldn't.

Not everyone, no. Would more people get into the game? Probably; that's why historical wargaming is a larger community than GW branded games. Sticker shock can scare off a lot of people....

**Kanluwen**

Andrew1975 wrote:
Except they won't, simply because they're a niche product

Yeah, because Target and Walmart don't sell niche products? What planet do you live on? They don't sell products the general public won't buy. They are not going to sell a $99 dollar game that nobody but a fanatic can see any value in. Because there is no value!

They sell miniature games at these stores. They sell things that have to be assembled. But if you product does not meet a cost to goods analysis Walmart will tell you to take a hike until you cut the price to a point where it is affordable.

No, they really don't "sell miniature games" at these stores.

Unless you're counting Risk or Monopoly.
And Lego kits are expensive as hell, yet they're sold there. Do you know why?

Because it's a generic product.

You REALLY don't seem to understand what a "niche product" is.

Andrew1975 wrote:That's your argument then show some numbers? I see an awful lot of $100 bane blades. I have not seen many of these boxes in my life. There are by far more Baneblades on ebay right now than there are of these boxes.

How many of those Baneblades have been reposted more than once?
Also, I'm pretty sure you just proved my whole damned point in that "these limited edition sets tend to sell out quickly, and then be hoarded". Toy sets don't increase in value instantly, unless there's some kind of aberration such as the old Star Wars figures where they came packaged with the wrong lightsaber colors, etc.

Eldar Own wrote:I don't think it's the price of the actual set that'll put people off. For example if two brothers or whatever want to get into wargaming, they get an army for £30 each and get all the rules and dice to play the game.

I think that the parents, after learning what the hobby's about, won't decline on the basis on that the starter set is expensive, but rather that the hobby is expensive overall. Or non-price related things, such as that their kids won't have the patience to sit down and assemble or paint their miniatures etc...

But then that's a problem with the kids, not the price now isn't it?

The majority of people want instant gratification, which you sure as hell aren't going to get with any form of model kit barring some piss-poor snapfit from a sweatshop in China.

Agnosto wrote:Not everyone, no. Would more people get into the game? Probably; that's why historical wargaming is a larger community than GW branded games. Sticker shock can scare off a lot of people....

That's partly why historical gaming is a larger community than GW branded games.
"Historical gaming" covers a huge umbrella of stuff, ranging from the Greco-Roman era to modern day warfare. That kinda helps out a bit too, wouldn't you think?

It's easier to get into something like that, wherein there's a huge amount of different themes--versus the relatively limited and restricted IPs of Games Workshop.

**agnosto**

Kanluwen wrote:
You REALLY don't seem to understand what a "niche product" is.

See my previous post with the RC plane... for $90 I can have something that flies under its own power.

Kanluwen wrote:The majority of people want instant gratification, which you sure as hell aren't going to get with any form of model kit barring some piss-poor snapfit from a sweatshop in China.

You mean like AoBR models?

This is a snap fit model, made in china; is it piss poor?

**Kanluwen**

agnosto wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
You REALLY don't seem to understand what a "niche product" is.

See my previous post with the RC plane... for $90 I can have something that flies under its own power.

Kanluwen wrote:The majority of people want instant gratification, which you sure as hell aren't going to get with any form of model kit barring some piss-poor snapfit from a sweatshop in China.

You mean like AoBR models?

True, but that RC plane isn't going to be $90 after you have to replace the batteries or a damaged propeller, get a multi-frequency controller, etc.

And the AoBR models--they're still leaps and bounds over the common GI Joe figures, now aren't they?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Damnit Agnosto, stop adding to your posts!

And check the price on that. I'm willing to bet it will be the same price as a box of Dark Elf Black Ark Corsairs.

**Andrew1975**

No, they really don't "sell miniature games" at these stores.

Yes yes they do. I don't know why you argue with me on these things. I don't pull random facts out of my @@@.

Battle masters (most comparable, but it was a long time ago)
Heroquest (again along time ago)

The have all the Star Wars games there. Pre paints but still Niche enough. There are more. Hell they even have magic cards and stuff like that.

Legos are expensive? Pound for pound 10 times cheaper than GW and you can keep rebuilding them and you don't have to paint them. I can go buy a giant bag of legos right now off ebay for nothing.

I'm pretty sure you just proved my whole damned point in that "these limited edition sets tend to sell out quickly, and then be hoarded". Toy sets don't increase in value instantly, unless there's some kind of aberration such as the old Star Wars figures where they came packaged with the wrong lightsaber colors, etc.

You sir are out of your mind. Again I back up my claims with numbers. I believe it is your turn.

That gundam model is so much more detailed than the black reach marines...its sick actually. It's probably a $10 kit so its not really a fair comparison. But a great example.

**Kanluwen**

You're really not that bright, are you?

Battlemasters and Heroquest were both Citadel products, by the by. And while they have been sold there at that time--they were made to be sold in a general venue at a time when Dungeons and Dragons was incredibly popular.

What Star Wars games are we talking about? The collectible miniatures games? The ones that Wizards of the Coast(which is owned by y'know...Hasbro) created as a new way of sticking it to consumers with randomized contents?

Wizards of the Coast, as I mentioned, is owned by Hasbro. Hasbro has leverage in stocking places like Wal-Mart and Target as they provide a huge amount of the cheap toys to these places--along with ridiculously overpriced 'exclusives'. Wal-Mart and Target aren't stupid, they don't bite the hand that feeds them when it comes to small children and toys.

**Andrew1975**

They sold tones of the old MB/GW Battle Masters and heroquest sets.

Battlemasters and Heroquest were both Citadel products, by the by. And while they have been sold there at that time--they were made to be sold in a general venue at a time when Dungeons and Dragons was incredibly popular.

I believe I covered the GW connection by saying MB/GW in the post. Yes its amazing what can be sold when you market and price something right. Games are extremely more popular now than they have ever been. Look at all the events, if there was a time that they could open the market it is now. But they want your first born for the product. During a recession, by the by...BYE BYE

But by all means keep changing your argument. Its been real fun so far. Keep sniffing the $6.50 GW glue.

**loki old fart**

I dont think GW models are good value.
If companies like tamiya can produce kits for 32 pounds

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TAMIYA-JS-2-Russian-Heavy-Tank-1-35-MILITARY-35289-/220648584821?pt=UK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN

or this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TAMIYA-1-35-SCALE-GERMAN-PANTHER-TANK-FIGURE-/260540304499?pt=UK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN

for 14 pounds

**Kanluwen**

Andrew1975 wrote:You sir are out of your mind. Again I back up my claims with numbers. I believe it is your turn.

That gundam model is so much more detailed than the black reach marines...its sick actually. It's probably a $10 kit so its not really a fair comparison. But a great example.

What numbers? All you said is "I've never seen this set, but I've seen hundreds of Baneblades." That's anecdotal evidence, not hard facts aka "numbers".

I could say, as a 'proof by the numbers' your way--The moon does not exist. I'm not seeing it right now--thus it does not exist.

Andrew1975 wrote:
They sold tons of the old MB/GW Battle Masters and heroquest sets.

Battlemasters and Heroquest were both Citadel products, by the by. And while they have been sold there at that time--they were made to be sold in a general venue at a time when Dungeons and Dragons was incredibly popular.

I believe I cover the GW connection by saying MB/GW in the post. Yes its amazing what can be sold when you market and price something right. Games are extremely more popular now than they have ever been. Look at all the events, if there was a time that they could open the market it is now. But they want your first born for the product.

Read your edit times, cupcake. Your edits came after I had already posted in response to another of your posts, and I'm not going back to reread your inane dribble of a post half the page up to check and see what crap you've added. Considering you're averaging 2 edits per post, it's seeming there's a lot of backtracking on your half.

**aka_mythos**

Andrew1975 wrote:
Legos are expensive? Pound for pound 10 times cheaper than GW and you can keep rebuilding them and you don't have to paint them. I can go buy a giant bag of legos right now off ebay for nothing.

Devils advocate... in comparison of first hand markets a second hand market comparison is moot. Legos are less detailed and don't require artists to generate as many individual pieces. Lego's use a cheaper plastic and thus cheaper, but they themselves are still pricey.

**Andrew1975**

Read your edit times, cupcake. Your edits came after I had already posted in response to another of your posts, and I'm not going back to reread your inane dribble of a post half the page up to check and see what crap you've added. Considering you're averaging 2 edits per post, it's seeming there's a lot of backtracking on your half.

Not on that post you jack wagon. You facts are again not facts. You need to look about two posts up when I first mentioned it. Its simple just find the quote. You say I'm not too bright. Look just get your S@@@ straight or I'm gonna have to come after you with a $30 GW saw.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Devils advocate... in comparison of first hand markets a second hand market comparison is moot. Legos are less detailed and don't require artists to generate as many individual pieces. Lego's use a cheaper plastic and thus cheaper, but they themselves are still pricey.

Hey I didn't bring that mess of an argument in here. I don't need to grasp at straws. It was just easily refuted

**Kanluwen**

loki old fart wrote:I dont think GW models are good value.
If companies like tamiya can produce kits for 32 pounds

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TAMIYA-JS-2-Russian-Heavy-Tank-1-35-MILITARY-35289-/220648584821?pt=UK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN

or this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TAMIYA-1-35-SCALE-GERMAN-PANTHER-TANK-FIGURE-/260540304499?pt=UK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN

for 14 pounds

You're as bad as Andrew.

Do you know what is actually present in those kits?

The bare minimum of components. Tamiya sells upgrade kits, crew figures, etc separately. And unlike Games Workshop--if pieces are missing you will be paying to have them replaced, and sending them your previous kit--by paying out of your own pocket, by the by.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Andrew1975 wrote:
Read your edit times, cupcake. Your edits came after I had already posted in response to another of your posts, and I'm not going back to reread your inane dribble of a post half the page up to check and see what crap you've added. Considering you're averaging 2 edits per post, it's seeming there's a lot of backtracking on your half.

Not on that post you jack wagon. You facts are again not facts. You need to look about two posts up when I first mentioned it. Its simple just find the quote. You say I'm not too bright. Look just get you S@@@ straight or I'm gonna have to come after you with a $30 GW saw.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Devils advocate... in comparison of first hand markets a second hand market comparison is moot. Legos are less detailed and don't require artists to generate as many individual pieces. Lego's use a cheaper plastic and thus cheaper, but they themselves are still pricey.

Hey I didn't bring that mess of an argument in here. I don't need to grasp at straws. It was just easily refuted

Uhoh, adult nerd rage! Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaage for me.

Your comparison is flawed, and your grasp of economics is fallible, at best.

**Andrew1975**

You're as bad as Andrew.

Do you know what is actually present in those kits?

The bare minimum of components. Tamiya sells upgrade kits, crew figures, etc separately. And unlike Games Workshop--if pieces are missing you will be paying to have them replaced, and sending them your previous kit--by paying out of your own pocket, by the by.

Wow, it appears that you have also drank the cool aid and and come down with a case of the blind Jingoisms. But I'm sure you have the$15 GW hobby knife to help you out of your misery.

Uhoh, adult nerd rage! Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaage for me.

Your comparison is flawed, and your grasp of economics is fallible, at best.

Your comment exudes rage itself actually. It also appears to be a meaningless statement with no facts or basis in the conversation. Gotta love the interwebs? I have however proved my grasp of economics...your the one who is trying to argue that plastic should be worth gold. So unless you actually have a point or a good argument why dont you toddle off now and play with your $8 GW elmers glue.

**loki old fart**

Kanluwen wrote:
loki old fart wrote:I dont think GW models are good value.
If companies like tamiya can produce kits for 32 pounds

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TAMIYA-JS-2-Russian-Heavy-Tank-1-35-MILITARY-35289-/220648584821?pt=UK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN

or this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TAMIYA-1-35-SCALE-GERMAN-PANTHER-TANK-FIGURE-/260540304499?pt=UK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN

for 14 pounds

You're as bad as Andrew.

Do you know what is actually present in those kits?

The bare minimum of components. Tamiya sells upgrade kits, crew figures, etc separately.

And Games workshop NEVER does that

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440335a&prodId=prod1290051

**Klawz**

Calm down everyone! The mods are coming. the mods are coming!

**nels1031**

This pretty much sums up my opinion of the threads original question. Its on the first page and it still fits in with the 6 page argument about pricing and business strategies as well!

GW has a worldwide network of stores. Multiple games that has been going strong for over 20 years. Books, video games, accessories and all kinds of other bs all under their IP.

They get massive web traffic for terms related to their IP.

They have legions of devoted fans.

They spend about NO money on advertising.

Are they perfect? No.

Are they idiots? No.

They are the most successful company in their vertical, ever. That says a lot.

While other game companies come and go like the turning of the tides, GW trucks on through thick and thin and continue to innovate and grow.

They have done this because they run their company like a business which upsets some people who seem to think a game company should be an NPO. They have made mistakes, but they have overcome them consistently.

So anyway, these discussions about GW's business practices are always pointless. A bunch of people with limited information and big opinions all chime in as if they were experts when none of us really know the entire story.

I am sure new people will continue to get into the hobby as they have since the 80's. Some will stay and dump thousands into the hobby like most of us. Some will go after a year and sell their crap on eBay. And through it all, people will always complain (as is their right) about prices.

Same old story and yet pretty much everyone continues to buy the stuff.

Sidenote : I'll probably end up buying about 3-5 of these boxes, 2 definitely for myself, 1 for my nephews(future GW fanboys, they love GW stores more then Toys'r us) and probably a few more, depending on my interest in expanding either army and the market demand for individual parts of the boxed set, in the time to come.

**mikhaila**

Yes yes they do. I don't know why you argue with me on these things. I don't pull random facts out of my @@@.

Battle masters (most comparable, but it was a long time ago)
Heroquest (again along time ago)

The have all the Star Wars games there. Pre paints but still Niche enough. There are more. Hell they even have magic cards and stuff like that.

Battlemasters and Heroquest are boardgames that use miniatures, and both have been out of print for a long while. They were produced by GW and sold in the mass market, hopefully pulling in new players to the larger miniature games produced by GW.

To say that those stores "sell miniature games" based on out of print games is quite a stretch.

Star Wars is very much NOT niche. It's Star Wars, quite a main stream and recognized brand. Also going away, and while a miniature game, it was mostly collected by people as a toy, vs. playing it as a game.

And yes, they do sell magic cards. This applies to miniature games how?

As to the other arguement of baneblades vs GI Joes, it's not even close. Mass market toys have numbers that make my head spin when I see them. The 'Game Industry' is barely an industry, and certainly no where near the giants that the toy companies like Hasbro are.

**Kanluwen**

Andrew1975 wrote:
You're as bad as Andrew.

Do you know what is actually present in those kits?

The bare minimum of components. Tamiya sells upgrade kits, crew figures, etc separately. And unlike Games Workshop--if pieces are missing you will be paying to have them replaced, and sending them your previous kit--by paying out of your own pocket, by the by.

Wow, it appears that you have also drank the Kool-Aid and and come down with a case of the blind Jingoisms. But I'm sure you have the$15 GW hobby knife to help you out of your misery.

Uhhuh. Really. That's amazing.

It couldn't have anything to do with having worked on scale armor models since I was 10, now could it? Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I have those exact same kits that he linked, by the way. Retailed for $25 USD in 1998, and are now $50.

Andrew1975 wrote:

Uhoh, adult nerd rage! Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaage for me.

Your comparison is flawed, and your grasp of economics is fallible, at best.

Your comment exudes rage itself actually. It also appears to be a meaningless statement with no facts or basis in the conversation. Gotta love the interwebs? So unless you actually have a point or a good argument why don't you toddle off now and play with your $8 GW Elmer's glue.

I love that you think you're actually having a grown-up conversation with someone. It's adorable.
Fact: You stated that "Baneblades outsell a limited edition toy set(made up of repainted and reissued components) that you have never seen". Gee. Could that be because, as I pointed out--they sell out within their release week?

Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, couldn't be.

Loki Old Fart wrote:And Games workshop NEVER does that

Go look into your Rhino kit box.
Really, go do it. I'll wait.
Does it come with the pintle Storm Bolter? How about the Hunter-Killer Missile?

Huh. What do you know. It does?

My Gods. It's almost like they give you everything you need for the 'basic' kit. Tamiya doesn't do that. Their kits are laden with instances wherein you actually have to take a piece clipped off of sprue and then melt it, stretching it out to make the antenna or track pins.

**Eldar Own**

loki old fart wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
loki old fart wrote:I dont think GW models are good value.
If companies like tamiya can produce kits for 32 pounds

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TAMIYA-JS-2-Russian-Heavy-Tank-1-35-MILITARY-35289-/220648584821?pt=UK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN

or this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TAMIYA-1-35-SCALE-GERMAN-PANTHER-TANK-FIGURE-/260540304499?pt=UK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN

for 14 pounds

You're as bad as Andrew.

Do you know what is actually present in those kits?

The bare minimum of components. Tamiya sells upgrade kits, crew figures, etc separately.

And Games workshop NEVER does that

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440335a&prodId=prod1290051

True, GW does sell some upgrade kits which are overpriced, the one that spring sto my mind is the BW upgrade kit. I think it's about £8. All i want is a deff rolla!

Though most GW kits have a good amount of spare parts that you can use to convert or save money. I.e. you buy two loota/burna boy kits and make 10 lootas. All you need to do now is buy an ork boyz kit and use the 10 burnas left over from the burna/loota kits. That's £12 as opposed to £30 (i think) from the cost of two more loota/burna kits. And you still have a nob you can use in a nobz unit. And many weapons you can make things like objectives with.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Klawz wrote:Calm down everyone! The mods are coming. the mods are coming!

Yes, this is going to get locked soon.....

**loki old fart**

Why not take a look at the razorback?
twin auto cannon req you buy a crusader uprade kit for the landraider. but its listed as an option in the codex

**Kanluwen**

Eldar Own wrote:
True, GW does sell some upgrade kits which are overpriced, the one that spring sto my mind is the BW upgrade kit. I think it's about £8. All i want is a deff rolla!

Though most GW kits have a good amount of spare parts that you can use to convert or save money. I.e. you buy two loota/burna boy kits and make 10 lootas. All you need to do now is buy an ork boyz kit and use the 10 burnas left over from the burna/loota kits. That's £12 as opposed to £30 (i think) from the cost of two more loota/burna kits. And you still have a nob you can use in a nobz unit. And many weapons you can make things like objectives with.

That's true. Not denying that upgrade kits can be overpriced.

But take a look at some scale model upgrade kits sometime. 8GBP is about right for upgrades that are 'decent' quality. There's an upgrade kit out there that's used to convert a 1/35 scale HMMV into a 'Gunwagon' that is nearly $150 for what amounts to 10 parts.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

loki old fart wrote:Why not take a look at the razorback?
The twin assault cannon Razorback requires you buy a Crusader upgrade kit for the Land Raider, but its listed as an option in the codex

"Basic" variant says what?

**Alpharius**

Klawz wrote:Calm down everyone! The mods are coming. the mods are coming!

Speak of the devil, hear the rustle of his wings...

Anyway...

Wow!

What the heck is going on in here?

EVERYONE should probably re-read the rules of this site - there's a link in my sig.

And, EVERYONE should calm down, count to 10, think about what you want to post before you post it, probably reevaluate that and post something else, etc.

Ouch guys.

Public warning time!

Look out after this post...

**Andrew1975**

Battlemasters and Heroquest are boardgames that use miniatures, and both have been out of print for a long while. They were produced by GW and sold in the mass market, hopefully pulling in new players to the larger miniature games produced by GW.

I'm sorry isn't this the point, isn't this the logical progression. A hex map hardly qualifies it as a board game. Again with the cherry picking?

Look. I've already shown GW's mark up using exact products. Modeling supplies, I've show cost analysis using like products GI Joes (it's not perfect but the glaring differences in price make the point). I could go off on other detailed model manufacturers but I don't have that first hand knowledge. Please read the entire thread first.

No where has anybody given me facts similar to mine to dissuade my beliefs.

Magic cards, star wars miniatures, battle masters etc...these are the only products larger stores have carried, so i used them. They are niche and were first sold in hobby stores (whether you want to believe that or not) they however do pass the chains value test. Unfortunately the hobby does not fit the cost analysis of large chain stores, It does not pass the value test these stores apply to their products before they will bring them to market. Maybe something GW should work on. If walmart could make a buck off of these things they would....but they can't.

**Kanluwen**

If you want to be taken seriously in conversations about the prices of miniatures --you're going to have to do some research and not jump from genre to genre. You don't compare the price of a AV-8B Harrier jump jet to a 747 passenger liner.

Those same modeling supplies you showed off that GW are selling on mark-up? They're made by a company that specializes in making modeling supplies. They sell to Privateer Press(who sell their supplies for similar prices), to Gale Force 9(again--similar prices), etc.

As Mikhaila said: Star Wars is as far away from a 'niche' as you can imagine. It's a franchise with licensing out the wazoo. That's actually something that Lucas was brilliant about, as Star Wars was one of the first successful films to really succeed with franchising. Hell--the man managed to sell boxes with paper in them(the infamous "Early Bird Special" for the original Star Wars action figures) for $30 a pop before his movie even came out.

**eledamris**

Simply put, there is no value in the box set. I challenge anybody to win a game with a High Elf Lord on a griffon, Lothern Sea Guard, Reavers and Swordmasters. They fill the box with these things because when new players actually read the Army Book, they realize that they need to buy entirely new units to win. There's more to consider than simply the dollar value of the boxed game. I'm not complaining about the price, but the value of what's in the box. I don't think they'll sell many of these to anyone but brand new players, mostly kids, who have been douped by GW employees into thinking this is a great deal.