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Manchu wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:It is the water cooler! Background, which used to be called Fluff For Nutters, is for hardcore fluff discussions.

Despite the stickied intentions, that's not what is going on. I would like an example of what "hardcore" means as you're using it.

www.hardcore.com

no thanks!

1965, considered by some to be Year Zero for the musical style called Rock. 'My Generation' by the band The Who is creditted with being the first TRUE Rock song.
1970, Black Sabbath 'creates' Heavy Metal.
During this period of growth Rock music was growing slowly becoming harder and louder. It was also still considered in the 'fringe', enjoyed by small groups of like minded people. It continued to grow slowly while more mainstream "pop" music continued to be played over most radio stations.
Then came the 80's. "Metal" was everywhere, its popularity exploding into the mainstream. Then it quickly became as corporate and staid as "pop". It lost its lustre and identity.
It became just like every other form of commercial rock... boring.

What does this music history lesson have to do with the discussion at hand? That depends on how you look at things.
This forum is a lot like Rock and Metal in particular. Some people see it as becoming much like other forums that have become lost or just vanished, crap, full of idiots and 'me too-ers'. In someones words... boring and useless.
But, At its heart are those that come here to discuss the games we play, whether it be Fantasy, 40k, War of the rings, Battletech, Halo, Politics, Religion, Frazzled baiting, whatever.... It is all about the GAMES at the end of the day, (mine usually ending when others would normally begin).

Change comes when people see the need to create it. Instead of pouting over what this forum (or Rock and metal for that matter) has become, Why not HELP impliment some of the changes you feel need to be made.
Rock and Metal survived the explosive 80's. With some dedicated calm direction, Dakka can survive these growing pains.

*Bows and exits-stage left..... no, the other left.*

@Helgrenze: There are a lot of pratical suggestions throughout the thread. What do you think of some of them?

Let's say the discussions about whether the Tau are the latest manifestation of the Nightbringer, or Eldrad's plan, or the last hope of the Old Ones.

helgrenze wrote:1965, considered by some to be Year Zero for the musical style called Rock. 'My Generation' by the band The Who is creditted with being the first TRUE Rock song.
1970, Black Sabbath 'creates' Heavy Metal.
During this period of growth Rock music was growing slowly becoming harder and louder. It was also still considered in the 'fringe', enjoyed by small groups of like minded people. It continued to grow slowly while more mainstream "pop" music continued to be played over most radio stations.
Then came the 80's. "Metal" was everywhere, its popularity exploding into the mainstream. Then it quickly became as corporate and staid as "pop". It lost its lustre and identity.
It became just like every other form of commercial rock... boring.

What does this music history lesson have to do with the discussion at hand? That depends on how you look at things.
This forum is a lot like Rock and Metal in particular. Some people see it as becoming much like other forums that have become lost or just vanished, crap, full of idiots and 'me too-ers'. In someones words... boring and useless.
But, At its heart are those that come here to discuss the games we play, whether it be Fantasy, 40k, War of the rings, Battletech, Halo, Politics, Religion, Frazzled baiting, whatever.... It is all about the GAMES at the end of the day, (mine usually ending when others would normally begin).

Change comes when people see the need to create it. Instead of pouting over what this forum (or Rock and metal for that matter) has become, Why not HELP impliment some of the changes you feel need to be made.
Rock and Metal survived the explosive 80's. With some dedicated calm direction, Dakka can survive these growing pains.

*Bows and exits-stage left..... no, the other left.*

/thread




You earned it.

helgrenze wrote:

Change comes when people see the need to create it. Instead of pouting over what this forum (or Rock and metal for that matter) has become, Why not HELP impliment some of the changes you feel need to be made.
Rock and Metal survived the explosive 80's. With some dedicated calm direction, Dakka can survive these growing pains.

*Bows and exits-stage left..... no, the other left.*

We're trying. THat's what this thread and the suggestions in it are for. Quite a few of us have submitted astronomical amounts of content to the website in one form or another. At the point where submitting content and being helpful is no longer rewarding because of the S:N ratio and how difficult it is to steer people towards the answers they seek, or to even find their questions amidst the drivel of whether Fulgrim used the blue pill to keep up with his lusts or not.....then it is time to stop trying to implement change by bringing content and start discussing how content can better be filtered.

I have only been here a few months so I dont have much feel on the problems you mention. I like this forums because I have been able to get a lot of good advise on it and I continue to use it to work on my lists ( I am also new to the game)
A huge issue I have with the forums is the failure of the search function. If I search for a topic I get a string of 50 results of which the first 45 are all in the same thread. (i exaggerate but only slightly). This leads to topics being repeated over and over. Especially in the tactics thread and YMDC. The search function does not have a human factor and so doesn't cause controversies where opinions differ so it can be solved without drama.
Another forum I was a longtime member of was relic forums playing DoW. That forum had a good search function...

Manchu wrote:@Helgrenze: There are a lot of pratical suggestions throughout the thread. What do you think of some of them?

Well, I know from reading various posts elsewhere, the Tech stuff has been in the works for some time. A round for Legoburner for that alone.
I agree that creating a 'tactics Mod position would require some definite plans and goals. I also agree that some-one should go through,gather, and catalog the various and occaisionally repeatitive threads there. (NOT volunteering.)
Perhaps a simple fix to the Mod Report system would help people with notification that their alerts have been noticed.... say a simple symbol change to show that the mods have been notified , another to show they are "looking into it"... maybe color based.

Monster Rain wrote:I disagree. I think the moderation staff takes their jobs as overseeing a forum based around the discussion of lil' plastic space manz as seriously as they ought to be.

This wins the thread.

Ps There are a lot of times I have seen topics that have been repeated and would like to direct the writer to the previous topic but knowing that I wont find it with a search is really discouraging.
Edit 'dang fast posters

@ sn0z- from what I understand, the search function fix is at the top of the list for legoburner (the site admin), it's just apparently a very difficult thing to fix based on the code...

Also, usually the newest threads are at the bottom of the page when you search, so scroll down and start up from the bottom...

Dash.. think about my analogy..... How many bands that "hit the charts" in the 80s are still around? The dross falls away even if the only thing wearing on it is time. But also with time some bands improved and started making music people wanted to listen to again.

Yes, LB has said that the search function is a very high priority. Specific suggestions for its improvement could be posted here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/300484.page


Automatically Appended Next Post:

helgrenze wrote:I agree that creating a 'tactics Mod position would require some definite plans and goals.

What do you think of the plan that DoP laid out?

I presume that is the idea to collect the best bits of info and sticky them.

It is a good idea. There's nothing to stop people doing that now.

It is a lot of work, of course, with little reward, especially as most people don't read stickies.

I know because I have been collecting resources for conversion and modelling into a stickied thread in P&M for months. It doesn't stop people asking the same questions about where you can find heads, guns, plasticard and so on on, again and again.

Of course, anyone can answer one of these queries by pasting the thread location as an answer. Most don't. I don't see that as a serious flaw in the system, just as the way that people are.

I would also query the objectivity of the collation of materials. It is relatively easy to moderate behaviour, the Swap Shop and Gallery because there are pretty clear objective standards. That isn't the case in lists or tactics.

Kilkrazy wrote:I presume that is the idea to collect the best bits of info and sticky them.

It is a good idea. There's nothing to stop people doing that now.

It is a lot of work, of course, with little reward, especially as most people don't read stickies.

What do you think, Dash? Are you willing to (1) create standards for collection and (2) wade through and collect?

This is a horrible idea. If Dash wants to be the sole arbiter of what constitutes sound tactical advice he should start a blog.

I'm not saying that he should be the sole arbiter of what constitutes tactical advice. I call shenanigans on you, MonsterRain. My proposal is that he and some other well-regarded tactical posters come up with standards (like date limits) about how tactics are discussed--not what is allowed substantively. Some content would be cut out but I doubt it would be the equivalent of turning tactics into any one's personal blog.

Monster Rain wrote:This is a horrible idea. If Dash wants to be the sole arbiter of what constitutes sound tactical advice he should start a blog.

From what I've read that's not really the idea proposed. It's more about collecting and archiving various tactical topics in an easy to find space to make it easier to find the information people are looking for without the need to start a new thread to keep that particular section a bit more tidy.

It shouldn't be edited for what anyone considers sound tactical advice. After all, that's the point of having the forum, to moot what tactical advice and to consider its soundness.

Instead, the forum should be edited for style and presentation. I was in a thread about Chaos Dreadnoughts that's still going and despite another poster's opinion about the rules being both ridiculously and willfully wrong, he made these extremely good diagrams to aid in our discussion of how those rules worked. I think he reading of the rules (and hence his tactical advice) was unsound, but he put effort into expressing his view and I believe the production of these diagrams ultimately made the rules-sideline relevant and useful to the main tactical discussion.

Manchu wrote:I'm not saying that he should be the sole arbiter of what constitutes tactical advice. I call shenanigans on you, MonsterRain. My proposal is that he and some other well-regarded tactical posters come up with standards (like date limits) about how tactics are discussed--not what is allowed substantively. Some content would be cut out but I doubt it would be the equivalent of turning tactics into any one's personal blog.

Shenanigans? On me? You cut me to the quick!

I understand your point a little better though, but I still kind of disagree. I dislike elitism more than uninformed posts.

Monster Rain wrote:

Manchu wrote:I'm not saying that he should be the sole arbiter of what constitutes tactical advice. I call shenanigans on you, MonsterRain. My proposal is that he and some other well-regarded tactical posters come up with standards (like date limits) about how tactics are discussed--not what is allowed substantively. Some content would be cut out but I doubt it would be the equivalent of turning tactics into any one's personal blog.

Shenanigans? On me? You cut me to the quick!

I understand your point a little better though, but I still kind of disagree.

Monster thats just stupid. Now cut it out...stupid!

Feth you! Ur the warst mod evar!!!1

Monster Rain wrote:Feth you! Ur the warst mod evar!!!1

No feth you! NEWB!!!!

(and its Worst Mod Evah!)

Frazzled wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:Feth you! Ur the warst mod evar!!!1

No feth you! NEWB!!!!

(and its Worst Mod Evah!)

I misspelled the misspelling because I am that 1337.

I have to stop bfore more coffee goes out nose....Newb!

Would this thread be permitted in Tactics under the DoP?
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/317162.page
Who would be permitted to post? What could they post?

Same to same for this one:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/318382.page
Who would be permitted to post? What could they post?

@Lego Burner

Thanks for posting that data, that clarified a lot of points.

@Thread

No one is saying that the tactics section should be edited by one person, that would be too big of a task. Allow posters to regulate the tactics section internally. Allow people to be less than polite when giving advice and that will lead to self moderation.

Look at all the guys we miss. Mauleed, Tigerbaby, Abbadabbadoobaddon, Jester, etc. They were all dicks! But you know what, we all were and that is what gave the place it's character.

I'm not saying we should all be abject pricks to one another, but hell, let the wise old grognards have a bit of a free hand in certain areas, like tactics and lists, and the quality will improve.

Monster Rain wrote:This is a horrible idea. If Dash wants to be the sole arbiter of what constitutes sound tactical advice he should start a blog.

I'm not suggesting that Dash be sole arbiter, just that a system already exists by which people could potentially cut the crap, if they want to put the work in.

In fact there is also the article system, which is already moderated.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
If people think there is a problem in Tactics (and Lists) and genuinely have some worked out proposals for 'moderation' or quality filtering, let's see them.

At the moment I am still seeing a lot of talk along the lines that if big Internet playas were allowed to slap around the n00bs, things would in some way get better.

As a plan, that doesn't sound efficient or effective, and it wouldn't be allowed anyway, so there's no point proposing it.

So let me reason this out here, Killkrazy, maybe I'm a little slow.

There already is a method available on Dakka for people to express their ideas on tactics and list building with minimal interruption by the unwashed masses? And if there was an issue with their article being trolled or tampered with they could report it to the Moderation Staff and expect action on it?

Would you characterize that as a correct statement?

I would think the Like/Dislike option would work.