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RiTides wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:Step #0: Make DoP the Tactics Moderator. I will regulate.

But that's what everyone thinks. And whoever would be moderating it, things would be viewed as being unfair.

That was partly jest - this thread isn't a campaign to make me a tactics moderator, but to point out that *someone* needs to moderate quality.

So points I am taking away:

-Need a 40K Discussions: watercooler, or modify Background to Background and Watercooler discussions. Move more mundane posts to this directory.

-Better title management or deal with titles when appropriate.

-Better search function.

-A Tactics Mod or guru (be careful what you wish for on that one.)

-Take Frazzled out, but watch out as he takes half of Dakka with him!


What else?

Frazzled wrote:Ayah we see the reports, but you're not a party to PMs. Although a response is not a bad thing. Good point.

I am not sure which thread I posted it in, but the boards which I used to post in let users see when a post had already been flagged with an icon in the corner. When the post had been investigated, the icon changed to let people know that a mod had taken a look at it and decided one way or the other on the matter.

Something akin to this would let people see a) what people see as being report-worthy b) that someone else has already reported a post so mods don't get flooded with alerts from a single post and c) that the issue has been resolved or is waiting to be sorted out.

As it is, (as far as I am aware) this board has no means of letting users know (other than a PM or post) when someone else has reported a post, or if a mod has looked into it.

Perhaps some kind of "your post [link] has been reported to the mod team" auto-pm might also encourage people to keep an eye on what they are posting? (or would that just encourage them do you think?).

Frazzled wrote:
-Take Frazzled out, but watch out as he takes half of Dakka with him!


What else?

Keep Frazzled. You sent me my first warning on the site, I printed it off and hung it on my wall. If the mods were the ABC warriors, you'd be Blackblood.

Seriously, I like the variety in the range of moderators, it enables them to encompass things.

Personally, I'm not sold on the idea of a 'Tactics Mod'. Why? I agree that something could be done about this. I'm just not sure the creation of an entire new moderation branch is necessary. Allow me to go into a spot more detail.

As things currently stand we have 4 layers of moderation. We have the administrators, who don't take a hand in the day to day dealings. We have the moderators, whose forte is the more mundane warnings, deletings, etc. We have the article Mods, who ensure that the galleries and articles are kept squeaky clean. And finally, you have the more recent Swap Shop Mods, who maintain law and order in that specific part of the forum.

Now just to draw on my own experience here, when the Swap Shop Mods were created, the Swap Shop was pretty much an unregulated Wild West. When we came into existence, our role was fairly unclear. We were given pretty much carte blanche within a small framework of rules laid out by Yak, and were left to our own devices.

However, it took about six months whilst we tested out ideas, and figured out exactly what we were actually meant to be doing. I think that a number of the birthing problems were a result of the slight knee jerk reaction of appointing an entire branch of a moderating team, without a clear purpose of exactly how we were going to accomplish our aim, or even what that aim was outside of a generality! Even now, it's an evolving thing, with a slight revamp in the works(watch this space!).

If the exact same thing is done again, with a whole new mod branch established with no clear defining purpose and guidelines, I simply don't see this being successful. Unlike the Swapshop, which had a pretty much clearly delineated goal in sight (a smoother safer trading place), tactics and army lists is a far more subjective subject. As such, I forsee problems, in that whoever the tatics mods would be, would have no real remit to claim that something is good or bad beyond their own personal opinions, and that could be heavily influenced by their own bias.

I don't know. It could work, but I would personally need to hear things broken down into exactly how things were going to work, what role exactly the tactics mods had, and so on. Far more detail, and far more planning, otherwise I see it ending in disaster.

I see your point, Dash, but it is true that pretty much everyone thinks this way, to one degree or other!

Here's a link to Lego's excellent post (including a graph of increased usage over the last 2 years) for those who missed it! It got buried pretty quickly at the end of the previous page:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/120/319323.page#1970579

What are the increments on the "y" axis of that graph, Lego? I can see the usage is many times what it was, but I'm curious of the exact number

Wow a lot of stuff to read
seem to be some interesting thoughts
so apologies for skipping
am a white rabbit and late
Manchu
I have a certain sympathy for what you are sayinh
if you contact a Mod they will tell you to hit the panic button.
Again they will be plagued by PMs (potentially)
It's sort of reassuring at least to know they are seen Fraz even if one doesn't get a result from it

SilverMK2 wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Ayah we see the reports, but you're not a party to PMs. Although a response is not a bad thing. Good point.

I am not sure which thread I posted it in, but the boards which I used to post in let users see when a post had already been flagged with an icon in the corner. When the post had been investigated, the icon changed to let people know that a mod had taken a look at it and decided one way or the other on the matter.

Something akin to this would let people see a) what people see as being report-worthy b) that someone else has already reported a post so mods don't get flooded with alerts from a single post and c) that the issue has been resolved or is waiting to be sorted out.

As it is, (as far as I am aware) this board has no means of letting users know (other than a PM or post) when someone else has reported a post, or if a mod has looked into it.

Perhaps some kind of "your post [link] has been reported to the mod team" auto-pm might also encourage people to keep an eye on what they are posting? (or would that just encourage them do you think?).

I like this too. Not sure if doable technically. Will add to list.

I joined about a year ago. I was a relatively new to 40k at the time, so my perception may be somewhat clouded, however, one thing I do know for sure is that the volume of posts that have been like this have radically increased in that period of time: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/317758.page#1941695

Also, I feel like there is a large number of copypaste lists in the army lists section such that when I see a list in there that has an interestingly titled subject, I actually hesitate to click on it. I've not visited the army lists in quite a while for fear of staring at yet another list with a CCS with a melta, a sniper rife, a lascannon and carapace armor, formatted horribly, and with the point values wrong. It just gets to the point where I see something like that and rather than help, I ignore it because it's just easier that way.

Tactics is a mess for reasons already mentioned.

Fluff seldom interests me because of the fact that half the time it's "ZOMG MY PRIMARCH IS THE BEST!" and the other half the time it's just arguing codex fluff vs BL fluff.

General Discussion: "What would you...?"

Of course, complaining about stuff and offering solutions to actually fix stuff are two completely separate things. I realize that. Something I might suggest is perhaps adding the ability to ignore complete threads?

RiTides wrote:
Here's a link to Lego's excellent post (including a graph of increased usage over the last 2 years) for those who missed it! It got buried pretty quickly at the end of the previous page:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/120/319323.page#1970579

What are the increments on the "y" axis of that graph, Lego? I can see the usage is many times what it was, but I'm curious of the exact number

Well "y" starts at 0 for one thing I prefer some merkyness in the publicly released figures so that I can give estimates without being nit-picked based on past graphs I've posted.

Instead of Tactics moderators, how about focusing on different aspects of the game and the format based off of specific venues/game types.

Take a look at the structure MTGsalvation has on their website here:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/forumdisplay.php?f=5

Each forum recognizes a different aspect of the game. Further, each forum also has a different function such as criticisms for new play lists, ect.

Now I don't know if we need to go that indepth into WH40k and other games, but something to take away is to subdivide the tactics forum as we have done for army lists and tactics already. Makes it easier to place things in a more structured way.

Frazzled wrote:-Need a 40K Discussions: watercooler, or modify Background to Background and Watercooler discussions. Move more mundane posts to this directory.

This one is a bit personal as I spent a lot of time there but I don't think background can be "fixed" into something that most adults would find worthwhile. It's the play pen of DakkaDakka. I think the specifically-40k junk ("Sanguinius's favorite mascara brand?," etc) should be directed here.

-A Tactics Mod or guru (be careful what you wish for on that one.)

One thing should be clear from the start: tactics mod does not equal tactcis guru. Asto Ketara's point about this "layer of modding" needing a specific mandate, I think DoP's post is a great blueprint for it. I would again suggest him as a candidate for the position, as well as users like Ailaros and Thor665.

-Take Frazzled out, but watch out as he takes half of Dakka with him!

As long as there is OT, there is a need for Frazzled. The question for you is, if OT was jettisoned would you want to stay on?

Manchu wrote:

Frazzled wrote:-Need a 40K Discussions: watercooler, or modify Background to Background and Watercooler discussions. Move more mundane posts to this directory.

This one is a bit personal as I spent a lot of time there but I don't think background can be "fixed" into something that most adults would find worthwhile. It's the play pen of DakkaDakka. I think the specifically-40k junk ("Sanguinius's favorite mascara brand?," etc) should be directed here.
***I am uncertain there fr the same reasons, but I could see Background and watercooler somewhat fitting.

-A Tactics Mod or guru (be careful what you wish for on that one.)

One thing should be clear from the start: tactics mod does not equal tactcis guru. Asto Ketara's point about this "layer of modding" needing a specific mandate, I think DoP's post is a great blueprint for it. I would again suggest him as a candidate for the position, as well as users like Ailaros and Thor665.
***Yep.

-Take Frazzled out, but watch out as he takes half of Dakka with him!

As long as there is OT, there is a need for Frazzled. The question for you is, if OT was jettisoned would you want to stay on?

***Its a valid question. Its ironical as I have espoused ending it in the past.

Hulksmash and I were just talking about mod vs. guru. I'm not sure I could be convinced that anyone has the authority to call themselves a "tactics guru." But it doesn't take a guru to index a valuable discussion for future reference to other posters.

I'm just envisioning a giant sticky thread at the top of the tactics forum that instructs users HOW to post in the tactics section in the first part. Over time, compliance would seep in. The second part would be a continually growing index of links to various tactical articles and discussions, such that EVERY poster's first stop in the tactics section is the index to see if there is already a thread up for what they wish to talk about. CTRL+F and a search for a keyword that you're looking for.

Thats a lot of time. Thats also open to a lot of disagreement.
The essential question you have to ask is, what if Stelek had been the Tactics Mod?

Dashofpepper wrote:
I'm just envisioning a giant sticky thread at the top of the tactics forum that instructs users HOW to post in the tactics section in the first part. Over time, compliance would seep in.

To be frank, I'd call this wishful thinking. The type of people who create the dross you're against don't read stickies. I can tell you from my own experience in that swap shop that people prefer to ignore stickies, and go ahead and do what they like anyway. Compliance doesn't 'seep in', it has to be beaten in. With a stick.

legoburner wrote:Well "y" starts at 0 for one thing I prefer some merkyness in the publicly released figures so that I can give estimates without being nit-picked based on past graphs I've posted.

Aha! I should've known it was on purpose. Good call

Dashofpepper wrote:
I'm just envisioning a giant sticky thread at the top of the tactics forum that instructs users HOW to post in the tactics section in the first part.

How about a template that has to be used by the OP in a tactics thread?

A discussion index in a sticky is a great idea.

I think that a good part of the modding work would be posting this message:

This subject is already being discussed in url= link]this thread[/url]. If you cannot find the information you after posting in that thread, try posting a thread with a more specific title. Remember to always check the Tactics Board Sticky for advice on how to title your thread and to see if the topic you want to know about is already being discussed. Thanks!

And then *thread lock*.

Reform in the tactics board will entail a lot of cross-referencing and research. Like with any project, the heavy lifting is in the beginning. I'll volunteer to help sort through the tactics stuff although I don't think I know enough about 40k tactics to be a potential tactics mod.

I'd note there are several stickies in the YMDC directory. Thats worked wonders...

(enough sarcasm to destroy a continent).

The sticky would have to be introduced on the end of a beat stick, no doubt. Hence the "form post" I suggested accompanied by thread lock. If this was done pretty harshly for a few weeks, I think the sticky might garner some respect. If it was a GT winner doing it, that might help, too.

@ Legoburner (wasn't brave enough to quote then edit your monster post)
"Highlight more of the good content in an easy to find location. A technical solution to this is in the planning stages and has been for a while, but a set of human editors would be the best option. Yak and I have discussed 'I like this thread' buttons to help content float or sink more easily and they will get implemented at some point."

I am in favor of this, something similar to the "popular forum posts" on the front page. Only rotate the threads on display so its not as stagnant as the "popular forum posts" section.

The fact that there's people saying there is too much moderation and others saying that there's not enough speaks volumes.

Reminds me of the viewer bias thread about the pope.

There are plenty of forums out there where the moderators are overzealous ballbags. Be careful what you wish for.

I completely agree with what most people are proposing here.

Sure, I'm a newbie on the boards by some standards... but hell, I've received more help from these boards than any other. I rarely get flamed for my ideals, though there are a few egomaniacs here. And i agree wholeheartedly that digging through the "crap" is an all too common occurrence; one in ten threads are great.

Dakkadakka is great for new and experienced gamers alike. Dash helped me a lot when I was trying out dark eldar a while back, and I helped him with modeling some disintigrators. Theres something for everyone. I just think that the "filth" (such an ugly word tho) could be controlled a little more.

Don't honestly have much more to say than that.

Zid wrote:I completely agree with what most people are proposing here.

Sure, I'm a newbie on the boards by some standards... but hell, I've received more help from these boards than any other. I rarely get flamed for my ideals, though there are a few egomaniacs here. And i agree wholeheartedly that digging through the "crap" is an all too common occurrence; one in ten threads are great.

Dakkadakka is great for new and experienced gamers alike. Dash helped me a lot when I was trying out dark eldar a while back, and I helped him with modeling some disintigrators. Theres something for everyone. I just think that the "filth" (such an ugly word tho) could be controlled a little more.

Don't honestly have much more to say than that.

Here's the rub though,

(This is purely an example) there are many posters who think DoP's posts fall into that filth category, and we've had lots of PMs etc. to get rid of DoP. Others like DoP.
This goes back to the immortal Mauleed. For every person who likes their posts, there is another who think's every statement by that poster just defiles Dakka. Its an issue.
There are even people who strangely have an issue with me, although secretly we all know they are really just chihuahas jealous of the awesome power that is Team Weinie.

Mauleed...

I too miss Mauleed...

Frazzled wrote:

Zid wrote:I completely agree with what most people are proposing here.

Sure, I'm a newbie on the boards by some standards... but hell, I've received more help from these boards than any other. I rarely get flamed for my ideals, though there are a few egomaniacs here. And i agree wholeheartedly that digging through the "crap" is an all too common occurrence; one in ten threads are great.

Dakkadakka is great for new and experienced gamers alike. Dash helped me a lot when I was trying out dark eldar a while back, and I helped him with modeling some disintigrators. Theres something for everyone. I just think that the "filth" (such an ugly word tho) could be controlled a little more.

Don't honestly have much more to say than that.

Here's the rub though,

(This is purely an example) there are many posters who think DoP's posts fall into that filth category, and we've had lots of PMs etc. to get rid of DoP. Others like DoP.
This goes back to the immortal Mauleed. For every person who likes their posts, there is another who think's every statement by that poster just defiles Dakka. Its an issue.
There are even people who strangely have an issue with me, although secretly we all know they are really just chihuahas jealous of the awesome power that is Team Weinie.

And all of those posts (including my real life batrep) could get dumped into a "40k watercooler" area and not bother anywhere else.

Its been mentioned several times here that different people say Too much moderation or not enough moderation.....its more a case of "different" moderation being needed, not more moderation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:

and we've had lots of PMs etc. to get rid of DoP.

Well, tell them to stop causing trouble with me then. I never start a fight, but when someone tries dragging my name through the mud, I defend myself.

And therein's the problem isn't it.

The other note, there are views the Dakka 40K Discussions is the watercooler.

It is the water cooler! Background, which used to be called Fluff For Nutters, is for hardcore fluff discussions.

40K Discussions is for joking around and stuff.

Kilkrazy wrote:It is the water cooler! Background, which used to be called Fluff For Nutters, is for hardcore fluff discussions.

Despite the stickied intentions, that's not what is going on. I would like an example of what "hardcore" means as you're using it.