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I must say, using Japanese "strange" models as an example is a poor choice in this debate...



Yeaaaah... I'd probably off myself before it got that bad personally.

Erasoketa wrote:I have the Twilight Pinup and the new Archon model, both still unassembled and unpainted. I'll try to make a pic of both when I have enough time, for scale reference

Good man! I look forward to it, though I intend on getting the model anyways. If it doesn't work...I don't know, I wouldn't mind having just an awesome model. That, and my friends would allow it as a stand-in Archon for friendly matches.

terribletrygon wrote:I must say, using Japanese "strange" models as an example is a poor choice in this debate...



Yeaaaah... I'd probably off myself before it got that bad personally.

That sure is a lot of self-indulgent crap.

Ratius wrote:Is there any actual potential to use this model in current games systems or is it just self indulgent crap?

Current games? Not sure.

In the Kingdom Death game? I would kinda hope so - however, I'm not sure what the timescale is on the game coming out. This release was one of the 100 resin copies, which are aimed at the painters' - as opposed to gamers' - market.

So much hate.
Sad Monster is Sad.

The Fragile Breath wrote:

Erasoketa wrote:I have the Twilight Pinup and the new Archon model, both still unassembled and unpainted. I'll try to make a pic of both when I have enough time, for scale reference

Good man! I look forward to it, though I intend on getting the model anyways. If it doesn't work...I don't know, I wouldn't mind having just an awesome model. That, and my friends would allow it as a stand-in Archon for friendly matches.

Well, here it is. The quality is a bit gakky, I took the pic with my phone. I hope it will help. I guess it's enough to check the scale. The Twilight Pinup is a bigger scale than the Eldar, might be about 32mm vs 28mm. The choice is yours

Good enough for me! I'm definitely getting it. Thanks bud.

No problem! Mind you, both minis come with their heads as a separate bit, so it might be a bit tricky to decide, but I would say that the difference between their shoulders is enough clue.

Looks like a Keeper of Secrets corrupted to Nurgle!

Ouze wrote:

terribletrygon wrote:I must say, using Japanese "strange" models as an example is a poor choice in this debate...



Yeaaaah... I'd probably off myself before it got that bad personally.

That sure is a lot of self-indulgent crap.

hmm not even a tenth of my warhammer stuff, lol

insaniak wrote:So much hate.
Sad Monster is Sad.

Thats a painted one... DID YOU BUY THAT?!?!?!

That model in metal will be used to break windows, arms and other... things. It would be dangerous to have on the table, as 5 pounds of metal will be.

Ashtetics are a personal choice. I think the model is creepy as hell but, its remarkably well sculpted.

For anyone questioning its merits as a model... I'm just going to say that 80+% of the modelling market (both resin and plastic) is for display purposes only. Miniature gaming is a relatively small part of the market. There are hundreds of modelling competitions around the world. Military modelling of all sorts outnumbers mini gaming not to even mention the strange folks who do model cars

On topic, I REALLY like the model. Its creepy, but strangely attractive. and the poses for the woman around the beast are also very well done. But, what could this be used for...?

It might be all the comic books but, it kind of reminds me of some of Garth Ennis's work on Hellblazer. The Son of Man story arc comes to mind. You know, the one where the little kid is actually a demon with a two foot penis. Which he than uses for mayhem.

Empchild wrote:Honestly... the sculpting is great but that model is horrible. Under what sense would anyone use it for or even paint it for. I have seen models that are of bondage on coolmini and those were more tastefull then that. I am sorry but I really don't like this one.

i agree with this, i kinda like cant eat the chex in front of me right now.

From what I've read this is to represent a pretty horrible creature in a fantasy universe that makes 40 K look... not so dark.

Think Lovecraftian Horror universe, and you might be close.

I dont know where people are getting the whole bondage thing from.

For what it is, it's a spectacular model. Not one I want to own, but spectacular nonetheless.

wolfshadow wrote:From what I've read this is to represent a pretty horrible creature in a fantasy universe that makes 40 K look... not so dark.

Think Lovecraftian Horror universe, and you might be close.

I dont know where people are getting the whole bondage thing from.

For what it is, it's a spectacular model. Not one I want to own, but spectacular nonetheless.

Links to where you might have read this?

It's earlier in the thread somewhere. Someone posted a link to the game that this is from. Some seriously dark stuff.

The game isnt out yet though. I read through a bit of it.

wolfshadow wrote:It's earlier in the thread somewhere. Someone posted a link to the game that this is from. Some seriously dark stuff.

The game isnt out yet though. I read through a bit of it.

Whops, sorry bout that. PM sent to you. Ignore that.

Actually if you've read some of the stuff that's been written for Chaos, this (scalewise) is sorta just breaking on par...

EDIT: In terms of fluff that is.

Wehrkind wrote:Hehe I agree with that sentiment, but only in the larger "bringing a [melee weapon] to a gunfight" sense. A suitably quick and aggressive person with a knife or two is still extremely dangerous even if you have a more suitable melee weapon like a sword. If you have a gun, however, both Knifey McStabby and Swordy McSlashy are going to die in a hurry.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is a common misconception.

Lets start with the accepted firearm use rule. In almost all Police Depts. in the US firearm use regulations place the officer in "close combat range".
This is to reduce the posibility of civilain collaterial damage.
Close combat range is within, say, 10 - 20 feet.

I have a friend. a teacher of mixed combative arts, who has provided close combat training to the police forces in our area.
Most officers enter this training with the attitude of "I have the gun. I am already the winner".

With a rubber training knife, at 15 feet, guns holstered, and holsters unsnapped (standard police force approach rules), the office looses 100% of the time.
Usually before the gun leaves the holster.
Multiple wounds, all dibilitating, most terminating.
Seen it happen.
Seen it happen with military personel, too.
It is even worse with untrained opponents.

The message is, knives do win in a gun fight.
The reality is that the knife fighter does not have the constraints that the officer has.
The knife fighter also, usually, picks the environment the confrontation takes place in.

These are the determining rules for any physical confrontation.
first control your opponent with his choices, the control your self with your choices.

Commodore Perry

Commodore Perry wrote:

Wehrkind wrote:Hehe I agree with that sentiment, but only in the larger "bringing a [melee weapon] to a gunfight" sense. A suitably quick and aggressive person with a knife or two is still extremely dangerous even if you have a more suitable melee weapon like a sword. If you have a gun, however, both Knifey McStabby and Swordy McSlashy are going to die in a hurry.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is a common misconception.

Lets start with the accepted firearm use rule. In almost all Police Depts. in the US firearm use regulations place the officer in "close combat range".
This is to reduce the posibility of civilain collaterial damage.
Close combat range is within, say, 10 - 20 feet.

I have a friend. a teacher of mixed combative arts, who has provided close combat training to the police forces in our area.
Most officers enter this training with the attitude of "I have the gun. I am already the winner".

With a rubber training knife, at 15 feet, guns holstered, and holsters unsnapped (standard police force approach rules), the office looses 100% of the time.
Usually before the gun leaves the holster.
Multiple wounds, all dibilitating, most terminating.
Seen it happen.
Seen it happen with military personel, too.
It is even worse with untrained opponents.

The message is, knives do win in a gun fight.
The reality is that the knife fighter does not have the constraints that the officer has.
The knife fighter also, usually, picks the environment the confrontation takes place in.

These are the determining rules for any physical confrontation.
first control your opponent with his choices, the control your self with your choices.

Commodore Perry

I don't disagree with any of that, and have seen the same effect in place personally with both guns holstered and polearms slung etc.

However, the police example misses out on three big issues (beyond even the fact that most police can't shoot to save their asses, literally):

1: Police and most civies start with weapons holstered. That makes sense when you are not in combat transitioning to "OMG gotta kill someone" mode. In combat, you ARE expecting to kill folks, in other words have already made the transition, so your gun is out and ready, and as importantly your mind is too.

2: Pistols are pretty ineffective outside of 10 yards for most shooters, true. A half decent rifle, however, is certainly not, even against moving opponents. If your opponent has a rifle, and can see you at >30 feet, you are pretty hosed.

3: Police situations != military situations. This is where your police knowledge fails you sharply, starting with "the accepted firearm use rule. In almost all Police Depts. in the US firearm use regulations place the officer in "close combat range"" is not how combat generally works. Police approach their "target" not knowing if they need to shoot them or not, and have severe restrictions on what they can do as a result of this, in addition to considerations of civilian collateral damage etc. This, combined with the fact that in general police never actually have to shoot anyone (I have heard officers say that most never draw their weapons even, but don't have numbers for that) means most officers are not in any sort of combative mind set until it is too late (nor do I think they should be necessarily, but that's another thread )
Soldiers, when not doing police actions and engaged in actual combat, have the option of essentially shooting first and asking questions later. There is no reason to get within 20 feet of an opponent, you just shoot him at 20 yards and bitch out your point man for letting him get that close anyway. In the case that we were talking about, say SM vs Wytches, "Shoot everything not in power armor" is a pretty easy rule of thumb, and unless the enemy can hide and ambush or sneak up very close they are going to have a bad day. The native Americans and Zulus learned this the hard way, despite being excellent fighters in their own milieu.

I would agree though that heavy urban environments would give short range fighting a new lease on life in 40k. The only thing that really makes melee viable in the rules as is is the short range of missile weapons to scale (24" ~= 120 feet = 40 yards, which is cake with a rifle; 1.5 times that would be a better estimate) and the absence of a stand and shoot reaction. As it is the rules allow for a unit to run 30+ feet directly at a unit sporting full/semi auto weapons and not take a single shot. Running 10 wytches at an IG heavy weapons squad with HBs works in game, but would be suicidal in the extreme in real life.

So yea, guns win knife vs gun fights when both those involved are aware of the fact they are fighting. In a larger sense, "Knowing you are fighting" wins vs "Not sure you are fighting" every time too, as is usually the case in police actions when the police are not certain whether or not they are in a killing fight or not. Going back to the Indian/Zulu example, if you can ambush (aware of combat vs unaware) or otherwise close the gap then yea, melee can win. If you can't, you die in droves.

Am I in the right place? Why are we talking about police and melee weapons? I thought this was about the giant penis monster?

My reaction to the two above posts in context with that the thread is actually about: What the ?

People stopped talking about the titty demon like a month ago. Try and keep up man

She has twenty tits.


What the f**k

It has implied rape, though. That makes it art.



That's an interesting thing to ask yourself, is this more or less "appropriate" than the famous rape diorama that's caused so much controversy? It's got a feth ton more nudity, that's for sure, and I think there's no questions asked about what that tentacle thing is about to do. But as far as intent goes I'd say they're pretty much the same, they're both designed to shock and disturb you, it's just that his model is doing it much more blatantly .

Thought I would let you guys know that the Wet Nurse has been nominated as the best sci-fi miniature of 2010 over on tabletop gaming news!

Currently its ranked #3, but is far behind the first two!
http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2010/12/18/42159

Its not really a sci-fi figure... but I guess that's just where they decided to place it.

Better than no nominations at all though, amirite?

Youarerite.

Sidstyler wrote:It has implied rape, though. That makes it art.



That's an interesting thing to ask yourself, is this more or less "appropriate" than the famous rape diorama that's caused so much controversy? It's got a feth ton more nudity, that's for sure, and I think there's no questions asked about what that tentacle thing is about to do. But as far as intent goes I'd say they're pretty much the same, they're both designed to shock and disturb you, it's just that his model is doing it much more blatantly .

I agree with all of the above, if I read your post with a sincere and positive tone of voice.