Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I can't decide which rule should take precedence. We need this clarified because it is such a vauge rule with how the vindicare rifle round works.

I vote you only get str+d6.

No +4d6, the rule for Living Metal is very specific.

woodbok wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Rending doesn't work,as it adds d3 to the pen roll.

You get rending against a mono, as well as PK and the like, but never roll more than 1d6 for Armour pen.

So is the rending part of the unaugmented strength of the weapon or is it part of the 1d6 that you are allowed to roll? Cause if it's not one or the other, you don't get it..................

In practice, any weapon attacking the Monolith will roll for penetration using its unaugmented strength and a single D6 no matter what.

Seems very simple to me... I think people are very much over analyzing this... besides, it's Necrons, do you really need MORE help to defeat them? (I play Necrons so I'm allowed to say that!).

If a monstrous creature doesn't get his additional d6 to penetrate armor, why the hell would a sniper rifle round?

Exactly. I don't see why there is such a fuss.

@cryage
For clarification, common sense examples such as monsterous creatures vs the sniper round hold no bearing on rules discussions; otherwise things like Tau beating SM in close combat wouldn't work.

The Necron rule does say unagumented strength plus 1D6 no matter what, so unless the Turbo-Penetrator round's strength is the 4D6 it does not get to penetrate the Monolith's armor.

As far as I can tell, there is little to no reason to think that the round's strength is replaced by the 4D6: strength is not mentioned, and the only thing it does mention is AP which is by no means synonymous with strength.

OT: I would have to read the rules for the Vindicare closely to make sure, but from here, I think the Necron rule takes priority, but not sure.

As a side note, I read most of the first page as Vindicator instead of Vindicare and was confused as to what the hell everyone was talking about.

wouldnt this also concern wave serpents?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the problem is they clearly just reprinted the 3rd edition rules for assasins without playtesting or even thinking about them.

Why would you say that? There are clear specific differences between the entry in the two codices. For example assassins now have a weak version of FNP and the Callidus no longer has her poisoned blades nor can she voluntarily break from close combat.

Afrikan Blonde wrote:Why would you say that? There are clear specific differences between the entry in the two codices. For example assassins now have a weak version of FNP and the Callidus no longer has her poisoned blades nor can she voluntarily break from close combat.

because there is no mention of rending in the entry. it would only really help against vehicles, in which case you would be using TP. but how does rending work with more than 1 dice?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
not all sniper rifles have str 3 against vehicles either.

the DE hex rifle is str 0 but i assume rends and can instakill.

The Hexrifle is like every other sniper weapon out there for Str, in that it's S X, not S 0, wounds on a 4+ and Rends. It also has an instakill if test failed additional rule for anyone wounded.

It's a sniper weapon, which the rulebook clarifies as S 3 vs vehicles, but it's irrelevant vs vehicles as the hexrifle specifically states it can't affect vehicles.

Soo, 3+4D6=\=S+D6... No?

Exergy wrote:

Afrikan Blonde wrote:Why would you say that? There are clear specific differences between the entry in the two codices. For example assassins now have a weak version of FNP and the Callidus no longer has her poisoned blades nor can she voluntarily break from close combat.

because there is no mention of rending in the entry. it would only really help against vehicles, in which case you would be using TP. but how does rending work with more than 1 dice?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
not all sniper rifles have str 3 against vehicles either.

the DE hex rifle is str 0 but i assume rends and can instakill.

The Callidus has Hit and Run. On I7

Easy. Every 6 you get gives you another D3. Check out the WH FAQ - its not tricky.

Hex Rifle is S3 against vehciles, as it is a sniper rifle.

They really didnt reprint the 3rd ed rules. The entire stat line for Assassins has changed massively - before denigrating GW perhaps reading the codex mroe thoroughly, and noting the HUGE differences between the versions of assassins, would be a good idea.

The question is moot since in all probability the remade monolith in the new necron codex will get other rules.
I cant see GW giving such a rule to the monolith meaning that armies like pure GK and orks basically have no chance in hell to ever down it.
Its not balanced and certainly not fun for players to face big nasty things on the tabletop that they stand no reasonable chance of handling.

S10 thunderhammers make monoliths go away.

No they dont since they need a 6 just to hit.

Ergo I find it impossible that GW will make the new monolith nigh unkillable for some armies.

Pyriel - erm, no they dont.

Skimmers are hit as normal vehicles in 5th edition. Best case for the necron player is a 4+ to hit.

And frankly, right now Liths are irrelevant, as everyone just rolls up the warriors like a carpet in CC and the whole army vanishes. They are tough, yes, but not that tough, and too slow to avoid the things that can wreck them.

Remember that when the Lith's rules were written the game was different, and most of the rules have changed since.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
'Its not balanced and certainly not fun for players to face big nasty things on the tabletop that they stand no reasonable chance of handling. '

Landraiders for orks. Didn't really slow them down thinking about that one...

Ditto twin claw BA dreads that have infinite attacks and are armoured up the wazzoo for ork crappy shooting, that can be dropped into combat by dropships (negating the shooting as it advances bit...)

nosferatu1001 wrote:Pyriel - erm, no they dont.

Skimmers are hit as normal vehicles in 5th edition. Best case for the necron player is a 4+ to hit.

Best is 6+ from deepstrike, but all subsequent turns would be a best of 4+.

Pyriel- wrote:No they dont since they need a 6 just to hit.

Ergo I find it impossible that GW will make the new monolith nigh unkillable for some armies.

Hmm only army I can see having an issue with monoliths are Tyranids, but they are just overall weak vs vehicles (IMHO, Hive guard is nice, but str8 doesnt do much on vehicles, and zoan's will get massacred if they don't pop it in the round they arrive from a mycetic spore).

Land raiders, IMHO are much more difficult as they carry more firepower and a full crew inside.

tyranids have access to a S10 AP1 weapon.

the aforementioned Zoans

They also have a S 10 Ap 4 2hot cannon option on the Tfex

Despite reading I fail to see how using 4d6 could fall within the realm of never being able to use more than s + d6 no matter what.

At most that just means it does not get to add its S value, and just gets d6.

Maybe it is my older codex.

kirsanth wrote:Despite reading I fail to see how using 4d6 could fall within the realm of never being able to use more than s + d6 no matter what.

At most that just means it does not get to add its S value, and just gets d6.

Maybe it is my older codex.

Frankly I'm amazed that they didn't go the same way as they did with fantasy and publish an update for all codex when they released the new rule book.

Because 40k didnt change anywhere near as much as 8th ed fantasy changed from 7th?

You couldnt operate a 7th ed, unFAQ'd book in 8th ed. You can run a 3rd ed book in 5th ed.

Barely

They should update all the codexes at the same rate, but they never will.

Marines, as the posterboys, will be updated every edition to keep their whizz-tricks current.

The rest of us are on a 'whenever we get around to it' basis.

Ascalam wrote:
They should update all the codexes at the same rate, but they never will.

Well, they have before. Twice even. It's just been over a decade since they did that.

I'm aware that they have done it before (back when Marines weren't the sole public focus of 40K and the other Xenos also got some love iirc).

I was referring to the future. If they've not done it in the last decade, do you really think they suddenly change their ways?

nosferatu1001 wrote:Because 40k didnt change anywhere near as much as 8th ed fantasy changed from 7th?

You couldnt operate a 7th ed, unFAQ'd book in 8th ed. You can run a 3rd ed book in 5th ed.

... I disagree, they may function but not exactly as they're meant to. Take Tau they are the only codex with jetpacks ... that cannot use all the new jet-pack rules, since their codex is written differently. Black templars have only just got the new shinny toys, wouldn't it have made sence to FAQ all SM codex at the start? and necrons ...

All the old codices should have gotten looked at and tweaked to make them balanced for the new edition (tau get a small points slash, necrons get a extra HQ so they can redeploy, daemons get fixed , ect)... sure you can play them as is but surely happy customers are worth a little rewrite after all this a games company that makes its money from miniature sales.