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Doesn't matter if it has a ST value or not. If it has the Sniper rule, it does, ST 3. If it doesn't have the Sniper rule, then it gets ST 0 plus 1d6, no matter what. And the meltabomb is the same way. Either it is ST 8 and gets 1d6, or it is ST 0 and gets 1d6. Neither of them gets around the Living Metal rule.

Is it;

1) Weapon str + 1d6 + 3-4d6 for penetration

2) 4D6 instead of (1).

Razerous wrote:Is it;

1) Weapon str + 1d6 + 3-4d6 for penetration

2) 4D6 instead of (1).

It is number 2, as specifically stated on page 53 of the codex.

its a sniper rifle (str3 vs vehicles) fireing a turbo penetrator (4d6 vs vehicles) where is the rule does it say it stops being a sniper rifle? or does the turbo penetrator replace the profile like the special issue ammo on sternguard?

either is irrelevent, as the monolith rule is quite specific.

If;

You received str 3 + 1d6 + 3d6 it would probably be str 3 + 1d6

You received str 3 + 4d6 then you would get str 3 + 4d6

You received just the 4d6, again you should get 4d6.

.... In practice, any weapon attacking the Monolith will roll for penetration using its unaugmented strength and a single D6 no matter what.

Thats how it reads from the last section of its entry.
(bolding mine)

It uses the rule for a sniper correct?
In which case, it will be s3 with a single D6

Whats the rule for Farsight? Isn't there a precedent there?

Andrew

Just found my codex.

Dawn Blade Yadda, yadda, yadda{no mention of MC} O'Shavah rolls 2d6+5 when rolling to penetrate the armour of a vehicle.

I thought that that was faq'd to only one d6 vs a Monolith?

Formosa wrote:its a sniper rifle (str3 vs vehicles) fireing a turbo penetrator (4d6 vs vehicles) where is the rule does it say it stops being a sniper rifle? or does the turbo penetrator replace the profile like the special issue ammo on sternguard?

The codex says quite clearly that the armour penetration value of a turbo penetrator shot has an AP value of 4D6. It's similar to Gabriel Seth's Blood Reaver or Astorath's Executioners Axe, the weapon always strikes at a specified value, other modifiers are irrelevant. In this case, the strength 3 vs vehicles that a normal sniper rifle grants is not used.

But as for how this works against a Monolith... well... you'd best wait for a FAQ.

It states in the codex that a turbo penetrator shot has an armour penetration of 4D6

The round doesn't use the weapons strength, you just roll the 4d6 after you have rolled to hit.

Bye Monolith.

The codex says quite clearly that the armour penetration value of a turbo penetrator shot has an AP value of 4D6

And the living metal rule states that no more than a single D6 may be rolled.

the weapon always strikes at a specified value, other modifiers are irrelevant.

And the living metal has allways been D6 max, so i dont see how a new book somehow overrides this.
If it did, it would mention about it as GW have had tons of messages about the rule, hence the extensive FAQ issues to date.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:

The codex says quite clearly that the armour penetration value of a turbo penetrator shot has an AP value of 4D6

And the living metal rule states that no more than a single D6 may be rolled.

the weapon always strikes at a specified value, other modifiers are irrelevant.

And the living metal has allways been D6 max, so i dont see how a new book somehow overrides this.
If it did, it would mention about it as GW have had tons of messages about the rule, hence the extensive FAQ issues to date.

D6 max coming from a weapon with a strength value? When firing the turbo penetrator it negates the use of the weapons strength and just rolls 4d6

In which case it would be 0 + D6

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:

the weapon always strikes at a specified value, other modifiers are irrelevant.

And the living metal has allways been D6 max, so i dont see how a new book somehow overrides this.
If it did, it would mention about it as GW have had tons of messages about the rule, hence the extensive FAQ issues to date.

I was referring towards more general situations not involving the Monolith, since people tend to think that the turbo penetrator uses the strength of the rifle in addition to 4D6 (which it certainly does not).

In the case of the monolith, this has to be FAQ'd. I honestly can't decide on which way to go with this one. If I were playing against a Necron player, I'd let them have this one, just because I don't know how to approach this issue.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:In which case it would be 0 + D6

Turbo Penetrator rounds roll 4D6 for armour penetration.

thamor, the lith is a single D6 max, so im not suer how the turbo round overrides that.




Fafnir: Im hoping it does, and pretty quickly.
And when it does i intend on abusing the lith's as much as possible against GK players

Quick note, but what T is the vindi? And does he have EW?
Im guessing they still have a 4+ dodge.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:thamor, the lith is a single D6 max, so im not suer how the turbo round overrides that.

Are you sure? Because I'm looking at the Necron codex right now, and here's what it says:

Necron codex, page 21 wrote:
Similarly, weapons that get Additional Penetration dice (such as chainfists, monsterous creatures, or melta weapons) do not get extra dice against the Monolith

Now, I may be looking at an older version of the codex, but going by how the Turbo Penetrator round is worded, it shouldn't fall under this category. The round strikes at a specific AP value, that AP value being 4D6. If that's the case, then living metal should not stop it.

Once again, this really, absolutely needs to be FAQ'd, it's rediculous that something like this (and the lack of clarification on Nemesis Falchions, amoung other things) even made it past the editors. Until it does get FAQ'd, I'd recommend just letting the Necron players have this one.

Fafnir: Im hoping it does, and pretty quickly.
And when it does i intend on abusing the lith's as much as possible against GK players

And that's why we have Warp Rift, Vortex of Doom, and S10 hammers. Really though, if the Vindicare is rendered invalid against monoliths, he'll just become more useful for sniping out res orbs.

Quick note, but what T is the vindi? And does he have EW?
Im guessing they still have a 4+ dodge.

T4, no Eternal Warrior, he gets his 4+ dodge, has stealth, and a 6+ FNP style save (which seems pretty useless if you ask me).

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:thamor, the lith is a single D6 max, so im not suer how the turbo round overrides that.




Fafnir: Im hoping it does, and pretty quickly.
And when it does i intend on abusing the lith's as much as possible against GK players

Quick note, but what T is the vindi? And does he have EW?
Im guessing they still have a 4+ dodge.

I guess we'll have to wait for that FAQ

Yea he has a 4+ cover, 3+ if in cover and a 5+ FNP. If i can remember correctly he has w8 bs8 str4 t4 w1 i7 A4 ld9

Actually, it's WS8, BS8, S4, T4, W2, I7, A4, Ld10, Sv4+/4++

Holy feth i didn't notice the 2 wounds

Now, I may be looking at an older version of the codex, but going by how the Turbo Penetrator round is worded, it shouldn't fall under this category. The round strikes at a specific AP value, that AP value being 4D6. If that's the case, then living metal should not stop it.

Its not under that part, read the last sentance of living metal mate.

become more useful for sniping out res orbs.

Yea, thats what does both me
I think ill be playing a game of holding back until he dies from a lith pie plate.

T4, no Eternal Warrior, he gets his 4+ dodge, has stealth, and a 6+ FNP style save (which seems pretty useless if you ask me).

Thats good then, means i can ID him as quickly as possible.
On another note, he is just begging to take a dark lance to the head

Thats good then, means i can ID him as quickly as possible.
On another note, he is just begging to take a dark lance to the head

Most players will place him in cover, giving a 3+ cover, Not a great save but yea quite possibly a dark lance to the face.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:

Now, I may be looking at an older version of the codex, but going by how the Turbo Penetrator round is worded, it shouldn't fall under this category. The round strikes at a specific AP value, that AP value being 4D6. If that's the case, then living metal should not stop it.

Its not under that part, read the last sentance of living metal mate.

Could you quote it? I'm looking at the rules entry, but all I see after that is concerning ordinance weaponry.

If the Vindicare's weapon rolls 4D6 against vehicles for Armor Penetration then it is Very clear that it would not get to roll 4D6, only 1, because the Living Metal rule says "...any weapon attacking the Monolith will roll for Armor Penetration using its unaugmented strength and a Single D6 No Matter What." Obvious emphasis being mine.

Also, don't read that with me doing some sort of arrogant voice where the emphasis is. I reread that and it sounds like I'm calling you stupid or something, I"m not, just trying to draw attention there.

.... In practice, any weapon attacking the Monolith will roll for penetration using its unaugmented strength and a single D6 no matter what.

Thats the last part of the living metal rule mate.
Just after the info about ordnance weps.


Im starting to think we have different books mate
I got a newer one if that means anything? (i know they do change a little from print to print)
If it helps ill scan the page in at work tomorrow and show the rule on here.

Please quote the wording and page number. I don't need you to go to the effort of scanning it.

Also, the copyright date, if possible. I'm looking at Copyright 2002.

Twas the wording i quoted in my last post mate.

Page 21


C2002
Product code: 60 03 01 10 001


Gunna have a quick smoke mate and ill type out the whole rule for LM lol, long ass rule.

What's the "unaugmented strength" of the Turbo Penetrator round?

Can a Vindicare shoot at a vehicle without using a Turbo Penetrator round?

bushido wrote:What's the "unaugmented strength" of the Turbo Penetrator round?

As with any sniper shot, S3. However, in the case of the Turbo Penetrator shooting against a vehicle, the strength of the weapon is replaced entirely with 4D6, and no strength value is considered.

Obviously, this causes a fairly significant gap in rules, and is exactly why a FAQ is needed immediately.

Can a Vindicare shoot at a vehicle without using a Turbo Penetrator round?

Yes, in which case the shot is S3 Rending as usual.

But you wouldn't get rending vs the lith anyway.

3 - sniper weapon, unless the Vindicare's rifle has a S on it's statline.

I would imagine he could shoot a non-turbo shot at a vehicle (like using the anti-inv one on a ravager to negate it's flickerfield, perhaps?). I don't have the codex yet (it not being available to the general public yet, around here at least) but from what i hear he has other ammo than turbopenetrator.