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WarOne wrote:It has been a long time coming in calling anything not in the Codex: Chaos Daemon a Daemon. Aside from the Avatar which states it is a Daemon, this resolves the issue of what are Daemons.

It should but it won't because will argue it doesn't extend to other codeces. I agree with the list except for Oblits. When did marines infected with a technovirus become demons?

Q: Do psychic shooting attacks need to roll to hit? (p50)
A: Yes.

Honestly, I think you guys are reading way too much into this FAQ. PSA inherently follow the rules for "Shooting/Ranged" attacks. Shooting attacks all require the firing model to make a "to hit roll" unless the rules for the specific weapon state otherwise (examples: Templates, Blast Weapons, ect.). This FAQ is simply stating the obvious procedure that we already knew. There are numerous PSA and weapons that have their own rules for "hitting"...Paroxysm, JOWW, Psychic Powers that use templates, ect. IMO, this FAQ changes nothing.

Dracos wrote:So I was looking through the updates, and this caught my eye:

The Assault Phase
Q: Can a model equipped with multiple grenades use
all of them in the same Assault phase? (p36)
A: Yes.

At first glance (without having a book on hand to see what its referencing p.36 for), I read that you can use multiple grenade types in assault. For instance, frag has S4, and Krack S6. So you can use both at once in an assault against a vehicle? Or if you have frag, krak and melta you can use all 3?

Am I misreading that?

Yes. Against vehicles, using grenades reduces you to one attack (presumably using the best grenade you have, if you have kraks and meltas). This question is more about, say, a GK Grand Master assaulting into demons in cover. he can throw frags, psyk-outs, rads, and psychostroke grenades all at the same time.

Alendrel wrote:

Dracos wrote:So I was looking through the updates, and this caught my eye:

The Assault Phase
Q: Can a model equipped with multiple grenades use
all of them in the same Assault phase? (p36)
A: Yes.

At first glance (without having a book on hand to see what its referencing p.36 for), I read that you can use multiple grenade types in assault. For instance, frag has S4, and Krack S6. So you can use both at once in an assault against a vehicle? Or if you have frag, krak and melta you can use all 3?

Am I misreading that?

Yes. Against vehicles, using grenades reduces you to one attack (presumably using the best grenade you have, if you have kraks and meltas). This question is more about, say, a GK Grand Master assaulting into demons in cover. he can throw frags, psyk-outs, rads, and psychostroke grenades all at the same time.

It might be about the GK stuff, but this is included in the General FAQ, dude and is extremely specific: Yes, you can use all of them in the same assault phase.

That's huge!

Let's revisit this thread in 2 months when everyone claiming that their Grey Knights were nerfed come back and say that their games go by a little smoother due to rules clarifications.

I'm a bit surprised that Oblits and Possessed vehicles are demons now. Oblits are a meld of marine, demon, and machine so I can kinda see it. But a possessed rhino is still a rhino. Also, mandrakes being demons is pretty weird and unnecessary considering how bad they are in CC right now.

I had no idea pulse rifles were plasma weapons.

Now that PSA's require a to hit roll, people are saying Mind War, Catalyst and Jaws all require to hit rolls. Is this true? None of those powers have a profile like a ranged weapon, and (to my knowledge) are not specifically called PSA's in their respective codices. And I'm pretty sure Catalyst only affects friendly Nids, and you never shoot at your own guys in 40k.

Noisy_Marine wrote: And I'm pretty sure Catalyst only affects friendly Nids, and you never shoot at your own guys in 40k.

The Nids codex does indeed have Psychic Powers that are PSA's that hit your own unit. That's why you can't assault enemies after using them (like Onslaught). I don't think Catalyst is a PSA though. Even if it was, all of them are "automatically hit", so they wouldn't need to roll to hit anyway.

Noisy_Marine wrote: But a possessed rhino is still a rhino.

Actually, a Possessed Rhino is a Rhino Possessed and melded with a daemon, not a simple Rhino.

wyomingfox wrote:

andrewm9 wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:So now that it is official that you must roll to hit with JotWW, does this allow the Aegis to kick in for some protection from it?

Thats wierd though since I don't have to target a model other then my own. Does the Rune Priest manage to miss himself?

Per the SW FAQ, the first enemy unit that has a model under the line is the target unit.

If the target is the first model, does it automatically hit everything else as long is it hits the first target?

As noted in the codex, it is a PSA. As noted in the BRB FAQ, it requires a to-hit roll. As noted in the SW FAQ, the first model along the line is the *sole* target. Based on the codex and SW FAQ, it's basically a crevasse opening up in the earth (hence the initiative test), but I have to see if it hits? What happens if it misses...does the line instead open up in a different direction? Fluff = rules now, right?

I'm confused...

Best to take it to YMDC.

spyguyyoda wrote:What happens if it misses...does the line instead open up in a different direction? Fluff = rules now, right?

It means if you miss, it opens straight down. Therefore, by fluff=rules, your Rune Priest is swallowed if you miss.

I'm just confused. This did clear some things up, but it sure didn't answer everything.

Edit: @ platuan4th: Thanks, that clears it right up

spyguyyoda wrote:I'm just confused. This did clear some things up, but it sure didn't answer everything.

Edit: @ platuan4th: Thanks, that clears it right up

PSA per the BRB (not the FAQ) have always followed the rules for shooting attacks unless the rules for the weapon/power stated otherwise. Shooting attacks per the BRB (not the FAQ) have always required a "to hit roll" unless the rules for the weapon/power stated otherwise.

This FAQ does not superceed the codices. It does not even supercede the rules for those weapon types listed in the BRB. All it does is restate what the rules for PSA have always stated. JOTWW states for you to draw a line 24" for which all models that pass though the line are affected. The SW FAQ further specifies that you must select a target in LOS (which must be the fist model that the line passes through) and that all other models are automatically hit beyond it.

So if you didn't need to roll to hit prior to the FAQ (because of an exception written into the powers rules), and all the FAQ did was restate the obvious, then you still don't need to roll to hit.

Except you do now need to roll to hit with Jaws - you need to roll to hit your target.

You have nothing in Jaws saying it autohits, so it doesn.t

nosferatu1001 wrote:Except you do now need to roll to hit with Jaws - you need to roll to hit your target.

You have nothing in Jaws saying it autohits, so it doesn.t

Well, Psychic powers which are Template attacks (like Warp Rift, Hellfire) also are "Psychic shooting attacks". So do they require to-hit roll or not? Because BRB says that templates don't, but FAQ says that PSA's need, which to believe...?

I agree with wyomingfox: powers like Jaws, or Mind Worm etc. specify how they work, and nowhere they do mention rolling to hit or wound, hence they don't.

You look for the roll to hit, notice that it is type "template", and look up the rules that tell you waht to do instead.

Same as Eldritch storm being blast means it has (always, since start of 5th ed) scattered.

The rulebook sets out the basic rules you must follow. without permission to ignore them (Jaws does not state it automatically hits the target model, but then this would be a suprise if it did - the power as written has no target) you cannot ignore them.

You are required to roll to hit unless you are told otherwise. Jaws for the TARGET is not told it automatically hits, so it doesnt.

kronk wrote:

It might be about the GK stuff, but this is included in the General FAQ, dude and is extremely specific: Yes, you can use all of them in the same assault phase.

That's huge!

It is a general rules mechanics issue, but the GKs are the ones that can currently make the most use of it.

Tzeentchling9 wrote:Wow, no shunt scouting. I guess it keeps it from breaking the game.

Vehicles can score. Of bloody course....

No 2xS from Doomfists? Really? Weird.

Wow! Way to bend Tau over the bed with the plasma syphon! Seriously. "Hey guys. I'm sorry to say only your Missile Pods, Flamers, and Kroot guns are any good."

Pretty much the rest is obvious answers to dumb questions.

Actually Kroot weapons are powder based weaons that have pulse charges in them. They too are pulse weapons. Nothing armed by any Troops Choice in the Tau Codex can by used against that piece of wargear. Luckily, 35 pts negating 1000 pts worth of an army couldn't be in any fashion broken. Needed, though, given how much Tau armies have been dominating the tourney scene for the last 10 years

nosferatu1001 wrote:You look for the roll to hit, notice that it is type "template", and look up the rules that tell you waht to do instead.

Same as Eldritch storm being blast means it has (always, since start of 5th ed) scattered.

The rulebook sets out the basic rules you must follow. without permission to ignore them (Jaws does not state it automatically hits the target model, but then this would be a suprise if it did - the power as written has no target) you cannot ignore them.

Umm no, Jaws specifies how the player must use the power. I mean, it doesn't even say what happens if it misses, if it has no specific target, how can it "miss"?

And how about Murderous Hurricane and Thunderclap, they are PSA's too. Can they miss too?

And what about old 4ed books which have Psychic shooting attacks which are not called "psychic shooting attacks". Does Lash need BS test, or Mind Worm?

Backfire the SW FAQ lists the target as the first model affected by the power.

Well, without the word "automatic" in the description of MH and TC, I would say you roll to hit and to wound.

Gah, why does answering one question cause 3 more?

It was a question that NEVER needed to be asked as it was already answered by the existing rules in the BRB. It's redundant

Nagashek wrote:
Actually Kroot weapons are powder based weaons that have pulse charges in them. They too are pulse weapons. Nothing armed by any Troops Choice in the Tau Codex can by used against that piece of wargear. Luckily, 35 pts negating 1000 pts worth of an army could be in any fashion broken.

you measure 12" from the inquisitor, and everything inside resolves at bs1.
it isnt by unit, it is by model, it really isnt that bad to negate.

spyguyyoda wrote:Well, without the word "automatic" in the description of MH and TC, I would say you roll to hit and to wound.

But the Murderous Hurricane specifies that the power causes HITS: and until now, the consensus with Thunderclap has been that it does not scatter because it is not actually Blast weapon. Has all this suddenly changed?

Codex trumps BRB. Follow the rules listed in the codex and the related SW FAQ word for word.

It's about damned time that a Daemon Prince counts as a daemon.

Dracos wrote:So I was looking through the updates, and this caught my eye:

The Assault Phase
Q: Can a model equipped with multiple grenades use
all of them in the same Assault phase? (p36)
A: Yes.

At first glance (without having a book on hand to see what its referencing p.36 for), I read that you can use multiple grenade types in assault. For instance, frag has S4, and Krack S6. So you can use both at once in an assault against a vehicle? Or if you have frag, krak and melta you can use all 3?

Am I misreading that?

The way a buddy explained it to me:

"Think of it like this....You get one "attack" with a grenade, that requires dice rolling. If you have other grenades that modify stats, etc. then you can still use those.

For example if you have both offensive and defensive grenades, you could, if you were assaulted by a dreadnought and a unit of beserkers use your defensive grenades to deny the forces that assaulted you their bonus attack, as well as use a krak grenade to attack the dreadnought.

The GK needed this ruling because they have like 5 different types of grenades. Some modify initiative, some modify number of attacks, etc."

wyomingfox wrote:Backfire the SW FAQ lists the target as the first model affected by the power.

Yes, I know that, it says "in effect treated him as the target model" ...

Obviously that is based on the BRB saying that Psychic shooting attacks need valid targets (ie, LOS), just like attacking with a ranged weapon. But what about the Thunderclap then? It says nothing about target even though it is specified as a psychic shooting attack. I assume you can use it even if there are no enemy models anywhere near.

DarkStarSabre wrote:

You ever see a brood of 3 Carnifexes

SW players with JotWW would love to play that.

Until now me and everyone else at the FLGS played Nemesis Doomfists as S10 weapons...now they're only S6 I can see no one (and I mean no one) ever take a 2xDoomfist build, statistically the greatsword is so much better it isn't funny.

2.25 hits with 3 base attacks is better than 2 hits with 4 base attacks but mainly because of the rerolls to wound and armour penetration. Why did I even magnetise the sword hand...

If the Doomfists were S10, it would balance it out a hell of a lot more than making every GK player pay 15pts for the greatsword. However it seems they are trying to push the Daemonhammer now...much as I hate to admit it (mainly because it looks stupid) it looks like a viable option now.

As for the daemons thing: so does this mean their Preferred Enemy (daemons) works against all those units or is this only for the Daemonbane ability?

As for the plasma syphon...goddam. They want me to look through every army book weapon entry and find *any reference to plasma-based weaponry*. I had a friend accurately predict Tau weaponry would be included in the FAQ and I can say I was skeptical, oh how I was wrong to the lengths GW will go to make me have to get my hands on every codex they sell.