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Mannahnin wrote:Any kind of win over Batman counts as a heck of an accomplishment.

Which is why I hate most comics.... Where is the Bad Guys winning every so often?

Slarg232 wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:Any kind of win over Batman counts as a heck of an accomplishment.

Which is why I hate most comics.... Where is the Bad Guys winning every so often?

You want villains winning? Read Wanted. It's a world where the Super Villains got together, got organized, and killed all the Heroes.

Platuan4th wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:Any kind of win over Batman counts as a heck of an accomplishment.

Which is why I hate most comics.... Where is the Bad Guys winning every so often?

You want villains winning? Read Wanted. It's a world where the Super Villains got together, got organized, and killed all the Heroes.

See, but that's not good either; let the heroes win some, let the villains win some.

I just read a big huge "Top 100 Comic Book villains" and you know what half of them were qualified by? "Being their rival" and yet losing almost every time. That's not a rival, that's a beat stick....

Ahtman wrote:He knocked Batman out but he didn't break him completely the way Bane did, and considering that Deathstroke is metahuman and takes on groups of metahumans typically it shouldn't be all that surprising. I should have been more clear that I wasn't referring to just winning in hand to hand, which Deathstroke has done, but in actually utterly destroying him. He made Batman a paraplegic and it took comic book magic to bring him back, he wasn't just knocked unconscious.

I didn't know Deathstroke was Metahuman. I thought he was "only" a regular assassin and one of the few humans who can actually take on Batman in hand to hand combat based only on skill.

Anung Un Rama wrote:

Ahtman wrote:He knocked Batman out but he didn't break him completely the way Bane did, and considering that Deathstroke is metahuman and takes on groups of metahumans typically it shouldn't be all that surprising. I should have been more clear that I wasn't referring to just winning in hand to hand, which Deathstroke has done, but in actually utterly destroying him. He made Batman a paraplegic and it took comic book magic to bring him back, he wasn't just knocked unconscious.

I didn't know Deathstroke was Metahuman. I thought he was "only" a regular assassin and one of the few humans who can actually take on Batman in hand to hand combat based only on skill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deathstroke#Powers_and_abilities

Enhanced brain, reflexes, strength, agility, stamina, and a healing factor(but not regenerative, hence his eyes still missing).

But him being meta-human doesn't mean squat, since Bats has many meta-human villains himself and he's beating metas weekly with the League.

Platuan4th wrote:But him being meta-human doesn't mean squat, since Bats has many meta-human villains himself and he's beating metas weekly with the League.

Plot armor is pretty sweet to have. It is also I think one of the reasons why Nolan didn't plant his Batman in the DC Universe. You have to come up with some pretty crazy stuff to explain how a regular guy can be effective in a world with Parallax, Darkseid, Superman, Lobo, the Green Lantern Corps, ect ect. Without plot armor he'd be squished like a bug on a windshield.

Well, we know why he can kick Supe's butt.

He has a ring with green kryptonite in it.

I've always said that he should have the kryptonite shaped into a batwing so that if he has to pimpslap Superman again, he leaves a ring impression.

Kanluwen wrote:Well, we know why he can kick Supe's butt.

He has a ring with green kryptonite in it.

I've always said that he should have the kryptonite shaped into a batwing so that if he has to pimpslap Superman again, he leaves a ring impression.

That just made my night XD

The ring itself is not plot armor, but the fact that Batman has the chance to use it is. The thing about being able to throw buses at people is that you can throw buses at people, which tends to be lethal.

Or in the case of the Hulk, he throws tanks at people. Whast worse then having a bus thrown at you? A 50ton tank being thrown at you thats what

Kanluwen wrote:Well, we know why he can kick Supe's butt.

He has a ring with green kryptonite in it.

I've always said that he should have the kryptonite shaped into a batwing so that if he has to pimpslap Superman again, he leaves a ring impression.

On the subject of Bane, being a good villain doesn't simply mean that he's effective, he has to also be memorable, characterful, and iconic to the series.

Bane isn't particularly memorable outside of his defeat of Batman. Characters like the Joker, the Riddler, Catwoman, etc, all have memorable relationships with Batman.

Bane also isn't particularly characterful. What's his threat? He's strong and smart. Big deal, Batman has dozens of those types of villains, and he'll have dozens more.

Finally, Bane isn't iconic, because he's not that old and hasn't been adapted to a lot of other media. Put simply, the Batman story can be told fine without Bane, in a way that it couldn't without Joker, Catwoman, Ras, or to a lesser extent, the Riddler and Scarcrow.

So Bane isn't a top-tier villain simply because he's not that important to the story. There are plenty of other villains that could have taken his place to make a better story.

More Catwoman shots including intriguing action scene which expands on the batpod picture. You can take a lot out of this ation shot, so if you're avoiding spoilers, don't click.

http://www.totalfilm.com/news/more-catwoman-shots-from-the-dark-knight-rises

Slarg232 wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:Any kind of win over Batman counts as a heck of an accomplishment.

Which is why I hate most comics.... Where is the Bad Guys winning every so often?

I would point you towards http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Six_(comics)

specifically the later/more recent team, written by the very good Gail Simone. There's a few tpbks available.

There's a new version coming in September too.

Ahtman wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:But him being meta-human doesn't mean squat, since Bats has many meta-human villains himself and he's beating metas weekly with the League.

Plot armor is pretty sweet to have. It is also I think one of the reasons why Nolan didn't plant his Batman in the DC Universe. You have to come up with some pretty crazy stuff to explain how a regular guy can be effective in a world with Parallax, Darkseid, Superman, Lobo, the Green Lantern Corps, ect ect. Without plot armor he'd be squished like a bug on a windshield.

Which is exactly my point about the difficulty with superhero teamup stories. Old JLA stories (talking '70s here) always seemed to deal with this by having Superman taken out of action somehow, someway, leaving the rest of the league free to do their thing. Another commonly-used device is having the team split up to handle stuff that suits their particular power level.

Will be interesting to see how the Avengers handles a team with Hulk, Iron Man and Thor on one side and Cap, Widow and Hawkeye on the other. Yeah, they make it work in the comics, but it'll be harder to pull off with live-action.

IIRC, Nolan's said he has an idea how he'll reboot Batman for the JL movie. Wonder if he'll be more of the detective/brains guy, thus leaving the heavy hitters to do their thing?

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Still wanted my poison ivy...

Christina Hendricks ROOL:

As for Riddler and Two Face, they've always come across as second tier to me. Maybe not Two-face but Riddler? Really? He aws never much of a villain...

Same for the Penguin. He has some name recognition, and he was kinda big due to the Adam West series, but he's really more of a gang leader than a villain.

KingCracker wrote:Aww MAN I loved the animated series. That was a friggin great cartoon, kindda felt a little bit like dick Tracy but cooler and darker.

Thats 'grimdark' done right. Even drew it on black paper in order to make it more bleak looking, etc. Loved that series, between that and Tim Burton's Batman movies and Arkham Asylum, Gotham City becomes one of the most unique settings on Earth and his Rogues Gallery becomes a truly deep and exciting tapestry. While the Nolan films are good, and Bale is the best Batman we've seen yet, Gotham doesn't feel like Gotham, more like Chicago (which is dumb, Gotham is totally NYC/ New York Cities ugly twin in New Jersey), and the story really doesn't feel much like Batman.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Same for the Penguin. He has some name recognition, and he was kinda big due to the Adam West series, but he's really more of a gang leader than a villain.

Which, again, is PERFECT for Nolan's Batman, considering the previous 2 movies have revolved around the mob in some way.

I think the use of fear is an important theme in the films as well. In the the first film Batman uses fear as a weapon to fight crime. In the second The Joker, who has no fear at all, uses fear as a weapon against Gotham. In the comics Bane was afraid as a kid and eventually turned that fear into power and one of the reasons he lashed out against Batman was because Batman is one of the most feared people in the DC world, and so he had to defeat the Bat to defeat a symbol of fear. Not sure if that will be in the movie in any way, of course.

chaos0xomega wrote:While the Nolan films are good, and Bale is the best Batman we've seen yet, Gotham doesn't feel like Gotham, more like Chicago (which is dumb, Gotham is totally NYC/ New York Cities ugly twin in New Jersey), and the story really doesn't feel much like Batman.

I agree that Gotham is clearly an aspect of NYC (as is Metropolis, although that also seems to have gotten a retcon of sorts in some mediums). But perhaps Nolan chose Chicago because of its old reputation as a gangland.

Slightly OT, but one of the most interesting ideas I've seen regarding Gotham and Metropolis vs. NYC was something written by a random internet poster back when WB was kicking around a Superman-Batman teamup movie. The poster said that it'd be interesting to have Metropolis and Gotham be the *same city* -- so that Metropolis is how Superman sees the city -- bright, optimistic, futuristic -- and Gotham is how Batman sees it -- dark, crime-ridden, rotten. I think that'd be fascinating.

Now that would be an interesting twist. Can we have FITZZ spooky Riddler as a villain in it!?!?

It'd be an interesting twist, but we know that Metropolis is far enough away from Gotham as to require a plane ride if you want to arrive quickly.

Also interesting note, the original comic Metropolis is based on Toronto, NOT New York.

Metropolis is NYC, Gotham is the Chi. Wayne tower was originally based on a building in Chicago. Besides, Batman's way to boss to live in New York, he knows what's up.