Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

ph34r wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:I was thinking about getting 9 each of the venoms and raiders so I'd be able to spam either one of them if I wanted. It's almost $600 just for that alone.

If you want to have a good army, or at least be able to field more than one build, it costs a fething fortune.

My Mech DE army, 1850p, cost me $450, plus another $30 for two characters that I added when I changed the list. I got the codex from a friend but that would have been another $33or so.

Fixed that for you. When did you buy that DE army? Are you including the current price hikes, and is that at retail price?

Still, the average Warmachine army is less than 2/3s that price, and other games like Infinity and Malifaux are even cheaper.

Vladsimpaler wrote:This is ridiculous and while I acknowledge the old adage of "to each their own", it's still pretty ridiculous

I would call you a troll but I don't think you actually are, I think you just have zero artistic skills. I mean really, PP's cavalry look like they were sculpted by a 10 year old. They have zero fine detail and the models are blobby as all hell.

Vladsimpaler wrote:Then you obviously don't understand anything. I can get a unit of Catachans or Cadians, which are some the fething most gak-tacular models I have ever seen, for 30 bucks. A single 10 man unit of moronic looking monkey-hand infantry that will have little impact on the game versus paying more per model for models that will have impact on the game?

Mod Edit: Language.

Vladsimpaler wrote:The only thing I would agree is that the prices are individually on par, but the in-game value that PP offers is MUCH, much better than GW and even you should realize this.

Ahh, so by artificially inflating the in game worth of every model in an entire range, it excuses the cost of the $10 basic infantry model with zero posing options.

Your logic is like me saying "GW models should cost twice as much as they do now because you can use them in Necromunda, and in Necromunda you need less than a dozen models, so each one is more valuable".

Your argument sucks so hard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RatBot wrote:Fixed that for you. When did you buy that DE army? Are you including the current price hikes, and is that at retail price?

Still, the average Warmachine army is less than 2/3s that price, and other games like Infinity and Malifaux are even cheaper.

I bought it right when the battleforces and venoms came out, so a couple weeks ago. And no, I got it at a standard store discount.

If you want an "average" 40k army, you can just pick up a 1000 point army. Sure, the "average" WM army is probably still half as expensive, but you get much less than half the models, and about 10% as many unit options, posing options, etc.

What's with the argument? Even after the OP has said he would like the subject on topic, there is still the abject retardation of the "gw vs PP price/value" argument. I was enjoying all the people posting that they were diversifying the games they played and enjoying new miniatures from new companies. It was very positive, then some people seem to think that other people have to justify their arguments for buying miniatures to them, and things degenerated into internet pillow( biter?) fights. If you can't handle people saying they enjoy a new system or a new range of models, go buy a few kilos of GW sand, put it in a bucket, stick your head in it, and slowly asphyxiate yourself (probably whilst telling yourself you were getting great value for money).

ph34r wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:This is ridiculous and while I acknowledge the old adage of "to each their own", it's still pretty ridiculous

I would call you a troll but I don't think you actually are, I think you just have zero artistic skills. I mean really, PP's cavalry look like they were sculpted by a 10 year old. They have zero fine detail and the models are blobby as all hell.

Mod Edit: No.

Vladsimpaler wrote:Then you obviously don't understand anything. I can get a unit of Catachans or Cadians, which are some the fething most gak-tacular models I have ever seen, for 30 bucks. A single 10 man unit of moronic looking monkey-hand infantry that will have little impact on the game versus paying more per model for models that will have impact on the game?

You just went full slow.

I don't think you fully comprehend how not mad I am

Vladsimpaler wrote:The only thing I would agree is that the prices are individually on par, but the in-game value that PP offers is MUCH, much better than GW and even you should realize this.

Ahh, so by artificially inflating the in game worth of every model in an entire range, it excuses the cost of the $10 basic infantry model with zero posing options.

Your logic is like me saying "GW models should cost twice as much as they do now because you can use them in Necromunda, and in Necromunda you need less than a dozen models, so each one is more valuable".

Your argument sucks so hard.

Mod Edit: No.

In Warmahordes and Necromunda, each model is more valuable (in-game). I even said above that the prices for the companies are on-par but the in-game value is different and for a lot of people, this actually influences their purchases. You might've read over that as you went to personally attack me. Or you're just being intentionally obtuse, which I assume you aren't. (Out of my good-will)

ITT: A try-hard troll fights back his nerd tears and tells me that I "went full-slow".

I don't think I will ever understand the kind of rabid, vitriolic, hate games sometimes get.
This thread has degraded into irrational argments and an illustration of what holds us back as a wargamer community rather than how individuals have grown and expanded.
I plea to you guys to please keep it civil so this positive thread about growth doesn't get locked. It's way too cool to see go.

semi on topic: anyone know how much an effective medium/elite infinity force costs? I've been thinking of getting in, but those low points grunts don't really appeal to me as much as the more characterful sculpts. If my army is only 10 models I want to love all of their sculpts.

How about Mantic, then? They make some really great multi-part plastic kits and you get 20 plastic infantry for $25.Well, their elves are fairly mediocre, but their other ranges are quite excellent.

2000 point armies tend to cost slightly to significantly less than GW armies, and you get gakloads of miniatures.

The Dwarf Iron Legion deal is $270 and comes with 2000 points, 180 minis, and the rules.


EDIT: Lawl, more posts while I was researching this one because I don't play Mantic games (yet!). People really should calm down. I will certainly concede that Warmahorde armies consist of fewer minis that a less customizable than GW minis. If that's important to you then that's something you'll have to factor in. But, as I said above, Mantic provides a massive number of customizable multi-part plastic minis for significantly less than GW's prices. The Orcs and Abyssal Dwarfs are admittedly not quite as good a deal, but it looks like a lot of them are hybrid models.

Mod Edit: No.

Mod Edit: No.

Mod Edit: No.

Please chaps
am assuming the Mods are all tucked up in their beds dreaming of electric sheep

Bullockist wrote: I was enjoying all the people posting that they were diversifying the games they played and enjoying new miniatures from new companies. It was very positive, then some people seem to think that other people have to justify their arguments for buying miniatures to them

may we return to positive musings and leave the tit for tat aside
thanks

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Please chaps
am assuming the Mods are all tucked up in their beds dreaming of electric sheep

Bullockist wrote: I was enjoying all the people posting that they were diversifying the games they played and enjoying new miniatures from new companies. It was very positive, then some people seem to think that other people have to justify their arguments for buying miniatures to them

may we return to positive musings and leave the tit for tat aside
thanks

On the flip side, while to one person it may seem like fresh happy declarations of freedom from the evil GW overlords, another person may in fact not be jive with the constant complaining about prices while switching over to a not less expensive game.

Dais wrote:I don't think I will ever understand the kind of rabid, vitriolic, hate games sometimes get.
This thread has degraded into irrational argments and an illustration of what holds us back as a wargamer community rather than how individuals have grown and expanded.
I plea to you guys to please keep it civil so this positive thread about growth doesn't get locked. It's way too cool to see go.

semi on topic: anyone know how much an effective medium/elite infinity force costs? I've been thinking of getting in, but those low points grunts don't really appeal to me as much as the more characterful sculpts. If my army is only 10 models I want to love all of their sculpts.

To your first point, well, that's what the anonymity of the internet gets you. I noticed ph34r hadn't posted anything in these discussion before now. Oh well. The next thing you know, we'll all be getting lectures on how those dirty Australians should just pay full retail price for their GW products, since they make so much more than everyone else.

To your second point, I'm not that knowledgeable on the rules themselves, but if I think I know of the game is correct, it might work. Grunts are always good for generating orders, and for dying before you cool elites/medium troops do. And, since the mediums/elites cost more in-game, you may be outnumbered by the other players who favor grunts in their forces.

Oh! And how could I forget. I went to Historicon last weekend for a day. I had a blast, and I plan on buying the 4-day pass next year as soon as it's available. I picked up a pair of mechs for Battletech - a Rifleman and a Warhammer. The plastic injected mechs in the intro set are nice (especially after a bit of cleanup work), but nothing beats the feeling of nice, solid metal. I also got a couple of sprues in my complimentary bag - a Mahdist Command sprue from Perry Miniatures, and a Roman Praetorian Guard spure from Warlord Games. Now, when I get further into historical games, I'll definitely favor 15/6mm figures for actual play. But basing a painting these models will be awesome!

Historicon also inspired me to get my Flames of War British and Germans painted, as well as making me take the first steps toward a couple of Field of Glory armies (again, there's that darned 15mm vs. 6mm arguement!)

I continue to play 40k, but mainly am building and painting the stuff I already have, and buying up used pieces from people when the price is right and I have a couple extra bucks.

Being summertime, I have about a million other things to do, fish, hunt for gold, garden, yard work, etc.

Will I buy new stuff from GW? nope.

Will I support my local game store? Absolutely, they sell dice, and snacks, and all kinds of non GW product that is useful.

This argument was thrashed out elsewhere not so long ago as I recall
It would be a better arena for the gladiatoral combat than this thread.
I don't wish to start yet another disagreement and derail the thread further.

So again will ask politely
please may we get back to discussing what we are now playing/collecting

Edit: apologies to the posts above that are back on track
ya ninj'd me

ph34r wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Please chaps
am assuming the Mods are all tucked up in their beds dreaming of electric sheep

Bullockist wrote: I was enjoying all the people posting that they were diversifying the games they played and enjoying new miniatures from new companies. It was very positive, then some people seem to think that other people have to justify their arguments for buying miniatures to them

may we return to positive musings and leave the tit for tat aside
thanks

On the flip side, while to one person it may seem like fresh happy declarations of freedom from the evil GW overlords, another person may in fact not be jive with the constant complaining about prices while switching over to a not less expensive game.

Original post is about people who thought they would not buy GW
anymore. The question is open to people saying whether or not they are
continuing to avoid GW or whatnot. While some of the responses have to do
with prices, the thread is not about that. Please stay on topic.

Yes, back on track. In addition to Warmahordes and Dystopian Wars, I think I'd like to add one or two more games to my repertoire. The hard part is picking which one, as there's like 14 that interest me.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:This argument was thrashed out elsewhere not so long ago as I recall
It would be a better arena for the gladiatoral combat than this thread.
I don't wish to start yet another disagreement and derail the thread further.

So again will ask politely
please may we get back to discussing what we are now playing/collecting

I've been collecting children with handles welded to them...easier to carry.

In all serious though, I believe I'm going to just stick to painting for a bit ( after Praetorians are done)...just paint up a huge zombie horde for the fun of it.

I've been away from GW since the Trygon release as those were my last purchased models. I doubt I'll go back any time soon since WHFB has dried up almost completely and my 40k army (Tyranids) are hilariously bad overall.

I've recently picked up Warmachine alongside a few of my friends. I wouldn't say one game is leagues better than the other, but so far I'm enjoying myself and I like painting the models so it works out. One of these days I'll check out Malifaux as well.

ph34r wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Please chaps
am assuming the Mods are all tucked up in their beds dreaming of electric sheep

Bullockist wrote: I was enjoying all the people posting that they were diversifying the games they played and enjoying new miniatures from new companies. It was very positive, then some people seem to think that other people have to justify their arguments for buying miniatures to them

may we return to positive musings and leave the tit for tat aside
thanks

On the flip side, while to one person it may seem like fresh happy declarations of freedom from the evil GW overlords, another person may in fact not be jive with the constant complaining about prices while switching over to a not less expensive game.

Some people just want a valid army to play and to them it is because they don't need to collect as many models. Others who buy just to collect or paint see the prices from a price/model point of view and so it is more or less equal. People need to understand that both points of view are valid. Neither is wrong or better than the other. It all depends on your needs that's all.

OT: Basically before the GW fiasco, I never even looked at other alternatives because I thought their background and fluff was not as good or thought out as warhammer etc. But after getting into Infinity and Warmachine I realised how wrong I was. Definitely in no rush to go back to GW now. I'm happy where I am with other gaming systems.

RatBot wrote:Yes, back on track. In addition to Warmahordes and Dystopian Wars, I think I'd like to add one or two more games to my repertoire. The hard part is picking which one, as there's like 14 that interest me.

Tell me about it.

Right now my playable games are -

Warhammer 40k
Warmachine
Flames of War

What I want to play:
Infinity
Dystopian Wars
Malifaux (although I think I'm switching Warmachine for Malifaux in the near future)
Some sort of Ancients Historical Wargame (FoG/WMA)
Polemos Napoleonics
Epic Armageddon
Battlefleet Gothic

So many games, so little money

Infinity shouldn't cost so much. Where it gets you is getting the
right amount of terrain set up.

Very true. I think paper terrain would be my best bet - there's plenty of free stuff all over the internet. I would just need to find a nice color printer that I could suck dry.

I also think Malifaux is in the exact same vein. I dunno, but I feel as if my attitude towards 28mm games is changing - I'd much rather leave the 'big battle' games to smaller scales, and use 28mm for skirmish sized games.

I've been collecting children with handles welded to them...easier to carry.

Yeah but don't leave them squashed in a foam lined box in the trunk of the car or on the dashboard just to see if they melt!

I am also trying to finish things before buying new
inevitably end up getting distracted

Like Ratbot said there are so many interesting systems
I don't really play that much so I can discipline my spending but being more of a modeller it is harder to resist the minis
Could quite easily buy the entire Red Box range if I wasn't careful

Heh, the ones I'm looking at are:

Anima Tactics
Kings of War
Warpath
Brushfire
Relics
Cutlass
Malifaux
Infinity
BattleTech
Uncharted Seas
Firestorm Armada
Dark Age
Hell Dorado
Wargods of Aegyptus


And historicals. So many historicals. I might even be willing to play Warhammer Historicals because historical miniatures are plentiful and cheap.

Hell, I'm even mulling over perhaps designing my own rule set, but really, I'm sure most long-time wargamers have thought about doing this at some point.

Could always scratch some Infinity terrain Infinite

Know exactly how you feel about the games/time cash ratio btw

Well, slap me silly and call me Shirely !*

I completely forgot that I had picked up the Battletech 25th Anniversary Edition boxset. So I guess that puts Battletech in my 'ready to play' category. The boxset really is great, though. Enough mechs for plenty of variety in games and some fantastic Map boards. Really, all you need is Skunkwerks and you'll have everything you'll ever need.

As for 'historicals' and 'cheap', I'd recommend Warmaster Ancients and Baccus 6mm.

*Please, don't.

I think at some point, you have to decide to merely collect
some miniatures and play with others. I just can't imagine having
the time for much of that list.

Oh yea, and I play Malifaux. Awesome skirmish game, lots of fun.

I'm somewhat ambivalent toward 6mm gaming, dunno why. I guess I feel a lot of 6mm minis don't have a lot of character. I'd play a 6mm game that included some larger elements. I had always been interested in Epic since it includes lots of vehicles and a few Titans, but, well, now...

I'm always open to suggestions. And I'd certainly be willing to play a 6mm game, I just don't think there are any I'd go out of my way to start unprompted.


EDIT: I actually have the BattleTech boxed set from yeeeears ago (I actually got it before I started playing 40K, which was a bit after 3rd edition came out), but I don't have it here (recently moved). I even have a few pewter mechs. Might pick up the new 25th anniversary set when they make and distribute more.

I'm also a glacially slow painter, usually because I find it daunting, but then when I do it I enjoy it. I'm not really one to buy minis just to paint them. I'm a gamer first, modeller/painter second, I suppose, but I do love well-painted miniatures.

May we slap Shirley and call you silly then?

I like the Ganesha Games Songs of Blades and Heroes rule sets as you can use the minis you already have or adapt rules for a nice sculpt if you want. Have even seen Lego figures used

Have the Napoleonics version Songs of Drums and Shakos as well which I forgot to mention earlier. Not yet tried it out.

Also have Mutants and Death Ray guns