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TiB wrote:

whigwam wrote:The Unglued set had a nice squirrel token

Odyssey had one as well. Sadly it was before the era of tokens in booster packs and they're both sought after and pretty uncommon so both the Odyssey and Unglued versions are worth some money (about $6,- to $8,- a piece).

Oh wow... I think I've still got a bunch of those from my old Deranged Hermit deck. Also, some sheep. Time to start digging, I think.

Time to check back in..

Since I intend to only play local tournaments limited to my kitchen table, I am not gonna worry about Power Cards or Planeswalkers. I suspect that I can make totally fine decks for family game nights with uncommons and commons, and the occasional rare for niftyness. At least for the 1st several months.

I did get an idea of what my daughter likes, which is simple rules that have a component of "gotcha" to them. Her favorite cards RIGHT now, are the Prodical Sorcerer and the Control Magic cards in the ol blue deck.. kill your weak stuff and take the powerful stuff..

I dug out the squirrel deck, and realized I did at one point get the unglued squirrel token card.. so, that was a mistake on my part.

What I don't like about Planeswalkers is that so many 'competitive' decks use them, that I rather feel that anyone not taking planeswalkers will struggle to compete on an even keel. There are some terrifying non-planeswalker decks but it always seems more satisfying to win and lose games to them, they are more skillful IMO. I don't personally care for the Planeswalkers, though I have a few in my collection, so prefer to make decks constructed that work together in a way more interesting than simply trying to get out an overpowered planeswalker as soon as possible.

Generally, I think there needs to be more cards that are dedicated to removing planeswalkers in the game making them more risky to play. Currently there are few or no drawbacks to packing four Sorins or Garruks into your deck. Oblivion Ring is your best bet (Every white deck needs four of them), or Celestial Purge if against a Red/Black deck.

I started my fantasy gaming life with Magic, back during the revised set. I loved the Rath Cycle, as the characters and background were very likable. Starke of Rath was my favorite card ever printed, even if he wasn't great. I kept playing through college, when the Morridan cycle hit. I quit there-that cycle was the biggest joke with indestructible cards, and I was annoyed at the Kamigawa block too-heroes everywhere, samurai everything and flipping cards-um...no thank you. I kept playing cards no newer than Legions, and had a sick little goblin deck. Still have it. We played large, multi-player games in college and had a serious TFG there who cried when he lost. He started attacking everyone, finally got around to attacking me and I stated "Do it, and I'll swing back at you. Go bother someone else." He attacked and I nuked him with goblin grenades, mogg fanatics, and then cleared the board with a Skirk Firemarshal. I won the game and took out everyone else. But since I killed him first, he picked up his deck, called me an a-hole and stormed off. He expected large games to just kind of stagnate until everyone had a HUGE army built up, but that's how his deck thrived-I just retaliated when he expected everyone to let him do whatever he wanted.

But my 2 biggest problems with Magic are the over-powered-ness of the new cards, and that money wins the game-the better the card, the more expensive it is-rich people win big, people who don't spend as much usually lose. It's a crappy system, but somehow it works.

Also, in my area the Magic people tend the be the ones who need to learn what soap is. Warhammer people (with the exception of one) always went to the store showered, deodorized and often with a mild cologne on to be pleasant to the people around them. The Magic kids smelled like they bathed in their own urine. YMMV on this, but it's how it is in my area. It's small wonder I don't play near them anymore. Too many bad experiences and the people I used to play it with have all moved on (or we don't talk anymore).

Both have pros and cons. The problem is objectively defining them. Most people that play one or the other are too emotionally invested in their favorite game to even listen to the other side.

Which has the stronger ruleset = MTG.
The ruleset has been evolving for years. GW thinks it's a good idea to come up with a brand new ruleset every few years, instead of building on what has worked in the past. Most new game companies have learned the lesson of MTG and are striving to get to that level.

Which has more creativity built into the game = Wargaming.
Modeling, sculpting, painting, visual composition, etc... all facets of creativity that can only be replicated on a limited scale (ie:Alters)in MTG.

Competition = Equal
You will find douchebags and TFGs in both areas. Has no bearing on which game is being played. Problem is rooted in a segment of geek/nerd populace who have not learned any social skills. You'll find them at Comic-cons, superhero movie premiers, online, etc...

Expense = Equal.
The only true difference is cost upfont or cost in maintenance. MTG you can start playing @ $12. Wargames start at around $50 for skirmish or $100 for army sized. This is starting small. Each additional purchase in MTG can range from $.05 to $50 on average based on the cards, or packs bought. Each additional purchase in Wargaming is around $10 - $100 avg. based on the models.

Power creep = Equal
New cards invalidate certain strategies. New armies invalidate certain strategies.



The biggest issue between both parties is how comfortable are you with change. If you are able to accept change and evolve well then MTG is a game you'd enjoy. If you enjoy a static environment that only changes in a 5-10 year timespan than Wargaming should be your cup o' teal.

Myself I play both, and enjoy them both.

The problems with the game for me stem from expense and the statistical overabundance of childish/jerk-tastic players involved in the competitive scene. When I came to the realization that I could spend the same amount of money on a competitive Magic deck that I could build a reasonable Warmachine army (or a small-to-medium sized 40k army), I began to suspect that it was high time that I jump ship. It was after reading an article on Channelfireball from a competitive player that essentially said that if I wanted to be competitive I would find a way to buy four copies of a several hundred dollar card (Jace the Mindsculptor, if I recall correctly) or else I didn't want to compete badly enough that I finally settled on leaving Magic. In short then, it was a melding of the attitudes of the game's top players and the sheer cost of the game that alienated me.

Granted, prices of cards shift drastically over time and it may be that such ridiculous expectations are no longer placed on those that would like to play competitively, but I simply don't have the interest to investigate the matter, as I have no wish to return to the game.

grayshadow87 wrote: It was after reading an article on Channelfireball from a competitive player that essentially said that if I wanted to be competitive I would find a way to buy four copies of a several hundred dollar card (Jace the Mindsculptor, if I recall correctly) or else I didn't want to compete badly enough that I finally settled on leaving Magic. In short then, it was a melding of the attitudes of the game's top players and the sheer cost of the game that alienated me.

That's no different than what been said on dakka.

Tyranid or Sisters player asks for help to be competetive, and some one will usually respond "play a top tier army, like GK, SW, or IG

Did a draft tonight that went quite well. I usually grab quite a few rares as they go by while trying to form a deck so I came away with a lot of new cards.

It was my last Innistrad/Dark Ascension draft I think as Avacyn is coming out soon. I ended up with a green-black deck with a lot of rather expensive monsters. Fortunately the games were fairly slow allowing a fair build up of land so that after the opening stages I could afford to grind the opponent down by constantly dropping and throwing away big beasties that I would never normally use in constructed. 'Spider Spawning' came in handy too once the graveyard filled up!

Two wins, a draw and a loss. Not enough to get something from the prize pool but I did get a nifty double-sided promo token for taking part.

One thing I find different about Magic is that each release feels like an 'event' and there's a good build up and you get promos and things for taking part. It's more memorable, everything GW does just feels like they are pushing product. Also Magic suits me fine at the moment because there's a local player base, I can fit games around work and the growing pile of cards that is my collection doesn't take up much space in my small flat. I haven't seen the body odour issues or whatever others have mentioned, and everyone tonight was very nice, all the games were very pleasant regardless of the outcome and I played a few friendlies to pass the time between rounds.

UsdiThunder wrote:

That's no different than what been said on dakka.

Tyranid or Sisters player asks for help to be competetive, and some one will usually respond "play a top tier army, like GK, SW, or IG

It was less the advice ("play with the best cards") than the sentiment with which it was expressed. Simply telling someone that because they lack close to a grand to drop on four cards means they don't want badly enough to compete reduces the problem to a fault with the character of the player, rather than a financial difficulty on the part of the player. It's the idea that lack of money (or skill, or time, etc.) was a fault of the player as a person, rather than inexperience, socioeconomic factors, or something else, that angered me.

grayshadow87 wrote:It was less the advice ("play with the best cards") than the sentiment with which it was expressed. Simply telling someone that because they lack close to a grand to drop on four cards means they don't want badly enough to compete reduces the problem to a fault with the character of the player, rather than a financial difficulty on the part of the player. It's the idea that lack of money (or skill, or time, etc.) was a fault of the player as a person, rather than inexperience, socioeconomic factors, or something else, that angered me.

First of all, Jace has never even come close to $250,-. He was $80,- as its top and now you can get them for $60,-, or $50,- if you look good.

Secondly, that guy you talk about sounds like a giant douche nozzle and personifies the bad side of the tournament scene and it's sad that people like that chase away people like you.
You really shouldn't let yourself be pushed out of a hobby you like by someone like that.

The good thing about magic and its giant pool of cards is that every strategy has a counter (save some flukes which swiftly get banned). Yes, perhaps the most honed all-comers lists will have 4 Jace, but it's easy to build a deck with perhaps 90% of the effectivity for 30% of the cost. There's just something satisfying about offing a $80,- Mind Sculptor with a $0,25,- Oblivion Ring.

Besides, if a single card or strategy is so popular as to become 'mandatory', (usually cheap) decks that prey on that strategy immediately start popping up.
For example in vintage, where all the tfg's will tell you you need a full complement of power or you don't take it seriously I used to play a fast GR deck with Magi of the Moon, Null Rods, Gorilla Shamans, Red Elemental Blasts and a bunch of other stuff that stops artifacts, non-basic lands and blue cards. It won quite a lot, especially for a $200,- deck up against $4000,- decks.

We've been doing the Avacyn pre-release this weekend. I wasn't that keen on Avacyn, the set seems to suffer from having a lot of over costed cards and poor commons.

Did a sealed deck one day and won 3, lost 3. On the second day I paired up with my best friend for a two-headed giant. He was red-blue for early attack, deck control and supportive combat spells while I had white-green for the bigger stuff along with various things to draw lands into my hand so that we had stuff for the mid game onwards.

This went very well we won the first three games and were playing for top place but it all went horribly wrong when I couldn't draw any land at all. I was stuck with two land for the whole game and even cycling for more didn't help. Unable to play hardly a thing myself, it was left to my friend who eventually ran out of weenies and bounce spells and the damage mounted up.

That said the two-headed-giant was the most fun I've had playing Magic. The games were all incredibly tense but very satisfying. Everyone was really nice, even the more competitive players were more friendly, maybe because we all had a friend with us it felt more communal, and there's more discussion/banter, people don't end up sitting in silence.

I did the prerelease as well and was a bit disappointed. I like the set for constructed, and am excited to draft, but I feel like its a bad set to do sealed.

What it boiled down to is who got their bomb out first, or who kept it alive longest. I got no bombs in my packs, and as you said howard the commons are lacking.

Hmm, I think it's one of the better sets in a while as far as useful stuff for both my casual and competitive constructed decks goes.

It is very much possible that you found the prerelease (which is 3 Innistrad, 3 Avacyn if I'm not mistaken?) unsatisfactory as the sets are balanced around normal drafting and sealed deck (which is 1 Innistrad, 1 Dark Ascension, 1 Avacyn and 2 of each respectively). In a normal environment you've hopefully got enough workable commons from the first two sets and the last set is just to flesh it all out a bit (hence the 'bombiness' of the set).

TiB wrote:It is very much possible that you found the prerelease (which is 3 Innistrad, 3 Avacyn if I'm not mistaken?)

Actually it was 6 Avacyn, which is the reason I wasn't a fan. If it had been a mix I think that it would have helped balance things out. I totally agree about useful stuff though. There is a fair amount that I think will actually see competitive play, and there are lots of fun rares.

There's a lot of stuff that's useful in constructed, but for sealed it's rather weak IMO. The commons are often poor, there are a lot of things that are just over-costed or compare poorly to others already in standard. Certainly there are good cards, but they are mostly rares. With Innistrad and Dark Ascension you could build strong decks in draft with few or no rares. Uncommons and commons were often first or early picks.

On the other hand, I think there's a lot of potential to build certain constructed decks, my aim is a red-white human deck. I've tracked down four Champions of the Parish and these will do well in a human deck using Thatcher Revolt and things like Goldnight Commander. There is potential for a huge number of +1/+1 bonuses and counters to be quickly put all over the place.

I play casual only, just thing that my friends and I can do whenever we have a flat surface to use. I like collecting the cards, the artwork on some is stunning.

Ravnica is definitely my favorite block and I am so excited that the next block in returning to Ravnica!

Anyone else do the Avacyn Gameday? I went on Saturday with my red-white humans and came in the top four giving me some boosters and a foil promo. My best friend won though and got the playmat, for a moment it looked like we were going to be playing each other in the final!

The red-white humans are fairly fearsome and can often manage a turn three or four kill. I've not got all I want in the deck, only two Silverblade Paladins instead of four, but it's very fast and does huge damage quickly. I only side boarded once all day. There was very little blue being played as well, it seems that the fear of 'Cavern of Souls' has put people off, so no blue decks with Snapcast Mage and counter spells. That said, I didn't see that many Cavern of Souls being played.