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i don't have a problem with matt ward's codexes at all; the only beef is the accompanying creep.

i can't wait for him to get his hands on my beloved CSM.

This guy likes Necrons, who hate Chaos, and Ultramarines, who hate Chaos. Do you really want him anywhere near that codex? If anything he could see if he can make it any worse.

Because even GW recognises Matt Ward as their spiritual liege.

The slow-burning torch sips bit was when they first left their home system sure, that's probably how every race first traverses the stars in all likelyhood.

Check out the BFG stats for Necrons, they're ships have base movement speeds generally above average and then an Inertialess drive ability that allows them to practically zoom across the table. The fastest Imperial/Chaos vessels can go 30/35cm per turn, usually 20 or 25. Only the largest Necron ship goes only 20cm but can burst up to 80cm, whereas the fastest goes 50cm and up to 110cm in a turn.

Henners91 wrote:Because even GW recognises Matt Ward as their spiritual liege.

Does this make Goto their Malcador or their Horus?

Durza wrote:

Henners91 wrote:Because even GW recognises Matt Ward as their spiritual liege.

Does this make Goto their Malcador or their Horus?

Horus, surely? Back-flipping Terminators and transforming vehicles must be the trickery of Tzeentch!

hemingway wrote:i don't have a problem with matt ward's codexes at all; the only beef is the accompanying creep.

i can't wait for him to get his hands on my beloved CSM.

The thought of him writing their new book fills me with excitement and loathing.

Vaktathi wrote:The slow-burning torch sips bit was when they first left their home system sure, that's probably how every race first traverses the stars in all likelyhood.

Check out the BFG stats for Necrons, they're ships have base movement speeds generally above average and then an Inertialess drive ability that allows them to practically zoom across the table. The fastest Imperial/Chaos vessels can go 30/35cm per turn, usually 20 or 25. Only the largest Necron ship goes only 20cm but can burst up to 80cm, whereas the fastest goes 50cm and up to 110cm in a turn.

Yes the necrons ships in BFG are damn fast.
But if they are slow now then wont the same that happend to the "Planet Killer" (if you remember that story) happend to like every necron starship armada?

I think all the hate is really stupid IMO.

My SM codex is well written for the most part, but there are some vague bits in it, especially in the army list.

Vaktathi wrote:Gah, and reading through the necron book it's as if Mat Ward decided to retcon the entirety of the Necron's Battlefleet Gothic nature as well. Necrons have the fastest fleet capabilities of anyone, yet Ward writes of their ships as slow vessels practically without interstellar capability...

The Torch Ships were always there, even in the old Codex, as the first ships the Necrontyr used. I could be wrong, but the new Codex makes no mention of the ships used post-biotransference. The C'tan in the old book were what gave the Necrons the reality breaking Inertialess Drive, they didn't develop it themselves. From my reading of the new Codex it seems it skips from the Torch Ships to the moment when they breached the Webway. I find it difficult to believe the Necrons could have been winning the war when the thing which lost it for them the first time (slow as hell Torch Ships versus the webway) was still around. I'm inclined to believe they still have very fast ships, though webway travel (which they now use through their Dolmien Gates) allows them to move without the usage of their ships.

yamgrenade wrote:If I'm correct, the vast majority of wargamers feel that Matt Ward is terrible at writing codexes. Why would GW get him to write yet another one? I know that GW isn't exactly caring of their customers, but outright ignorance of their feedback just seems beyond even them, especially with something as simple as hiring somebody else.

I disagree, the codices he has made as of the last few years have been pretty balanced by giving the army a focus and not letting them go outside of it. Necrons are an army of glass cannons, if you want your army to be stronger, with more bodies and counter-assault capability, you give up your damage potential. Blood angels are an aggressive army, if you decide to play chicken and stay back and shoot at your opponent, you can do it, but not as well as space wolves/space marines since you pay a tax for your fast vehicles.

I think a vast majority of wargamers cannot comprehend the complexity of his codex design because they have trouble fighting things like draigowing (really?) or FNP BA.

I'll give ya'll out there who doubt me, a litmus test.

What are the weaknesses of the Grey Knights codex and what are the key differences between C:SM and BA codex design that make them different armies?

I'm sure half of the people out there understand the weakness in the GK codex, but for the second part of my test, I doubt people can do more than point out more than a few different units and a couple special rules. Just think about my question, no need to respond.

Dytalus wrote: The C'tan in the old book were what gave the Necrons the reality breaking Inertialess Drive, they didn't develop it themselves.

Nowhere is this ever stated, at all.

The C'tan transferred the Necrontyr into Living Metal bodies.

They did not give them super awesome technology in the old codex.

Even if they are the reason they know how to make them, they still knew how to make and use them.

That was one of the more annoying changes in the codex.

Necrons using the Webway ftw!

It wasn't stated in the Codex, but in extra fluff published on the website (now gone, obviously) that a lot of the Necron's uber tech was a gift from the Void Dragon who was capable of understanding and manipulating technology at a whim. The Inertialess Drive was one. His Necrons also had a massively more powerful lightning field weapon, and much larger more formidable living metal bodies. IIRC this fluff came alongside more fluff about the Outsider too with the Harlequin dance.

Regardless, nowhere in the Codex does it specifically state that the Necrons rely on Dolmen gates (or however you spell it). Only one Necron dynasty is expressly mentioned as needing them, and if they do use Dolmen Gates and webway travel only, how did Helbrecht ambush Imotekh? Why would Imotekh travel between worlds in a Torch Ship, not least for the slow speed but also because it would leave him vulnerable.

Dytalus wrote:It wasn't stated in the Codex, but in extra fluff published on the website (now gone, obviously) that a lot of the Necron's uber tech was a gift from the Void Dragon who was capable of understanding and manipulating technology at a whim. The Inertialess Drive was one. His Necrons also had a massively more powerful lightning field weapon, and much larger more formidable living metal bodies. IIRC this fluff came alongside more fluff about the Outsider too with the Harlequin dance.

Regardless, nowhere in the Codex does it specifically state that the Necrons rely on Dolmen gates (or however you spell it). Only one Necron dynasty is expressly mentioned as needing them, and if they do use Dolmen Gates and webway travel only, how did Helbrecht ambush Imotekh? Why would Imotekh travel between worlds in a Torch Ship, not least for the slow speed but also because it would leave him vulnerable.

Source?

For the first part? Gone now, but it was on the Games Workshop website back when each race had individual fluff pieces in their sections. I'll be honest, I don't remember it 100% so it's possible I'm mixing it up with something I read elsewhere.

EDIT: Found an archived version, and you're right it doesn't mention the Dragon granting the Necrons the Inertialess Drive just his fighting a bunch of Eldar proto-wraith guard. Now I can't remember where I read that at all, so I'll concede my mistake here. It's entirely possible I read it in a canon source but can't remember it, or that I read it as idle speculation and my memory has it as being legit. My bad. ; - ;

Dytalus wrote:For the first part? Gone now, but it was on the Games Workshop website back when each race had individual fluff pieces in their sections. I'll be honest, I don't remember it 100% so it's possible I'm mixing it up with something I read elsewhere.

In that case, its prolly been retconned if its that ancient

Dytalus wrote:For the first part? Gone now, but it was on the Games Workshop website back when each race had individual fluff pieces in their sections. I'll be honest, I don't remember it 100% so it's possible I'm mixing it up with something I read elsewhere.

Ok, I'm not disputing this but if it isn't extremely recent then it has probably been overwritten by the new Codexes fluff.

Rampage wrote:

Dytalus wrote:For the first part? Gone now, but it was on the Games Workshop website back when each race had individual fluff pieces in their sections. I'll be honest, I don't remember it 100% so it's possible I'm mixing it up with something I read elsewhere.

Ok, I'm not disputing this but if it isn't extremely recent then it has probably been overwritten by the new Codexes fluff.

That was my thought. Not that it matters, I edited my above post cos I found an archived version and unless I'm missing something it doesn't mention it. I herp'd. ; - ;

yamgrenade wrote:If I'm correct...

You're not. /thread

Dytalus wrote:For the first part? Gone now, but it was on the Games Workshop website back when each race had individual fluff pieces in their sections. I'll be honest, I don't remember it 100% so it's possible I'm mixing it up with something I read elsewhere.

EDIT: Found an archived version, and you're right it doesn't mention the Dragon granting the Necrons the Inertialess Drive just his fighting a bunch of Eldar proto-wraith guard. Now I can't remember where I read that at all, so I'll concede my mistake here. It's entirely possible I read it in a canon source but can't remember it, or that I read it as idle speculation and my memory has it as being legit. My bad. ; - ;

Yeah I figured you were talking about Dawn of the C'tan.

I didn't recall reading that either.