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When it comes to business in general anymore, it seems like there has been more of a trend in assigning somebody to be in charge of a project, same way in politics.

Look at the House of Reps: the majority party could be throwing poop at each other but people will always blame the majority leader.

I really think that this could easily be the case at GW right now. Matt Ward sitting at a table while trying to control the rest of his team while they are throwing stupid fluff and rules at each others head. He does the best he can, and then gets the heat for the stuff that makes it through.

A good politician will get take responsibility when they succeed, and make damn sure its not their fault and everybody knows it when something goes wrong.

Joking.


Sorta...

Harriticus wrote:I have all codices written by Matt Ward and all codices for every army past 3rd edition for that matter, there is a lot of ground to criticize Ward on regarding the fluff he writes. It's easily the lowest quality. His biggest problem is while all the codices hype their faction to be unstoppable (save perhaps Eldar/Dark Eldar) Ward takes it to the extreme and warps the entire 40k setting to fit these rather ridiculous scenarios in a negative direction for the pre-establish grimdark setting. But how the Necrons could have been given more character without removing everything they were is a very lengthy topic indeed. There's also the issue of making blanket statements that interfere with the greater setting, such as "all Space Marines want to be Ultramarines". This is simply a ridiculous statements that interferes with the entire persona of most pre-established Space Marine forces such as Space Wolves, Salamanders, Imperial Fists, Blood Angels, etc.. who clearly have no desire to be Ultramarines and are very proud of their heritage. Moreover, the ridiculous escapades of Draigo basically rampaging around the Warp at will doing things like making Daemon Primarchs his playthings and turning the Grey Knights into a nigh-unstoppable force from a fluff perspective also is a fine example of Ward screwing with the established setting just to hype his own codex. Yes, all codex's hype their armies immensely but Ward takes it a step further.

+1 to this comment.

I’ve said similar things in the past regarding Ward’s fluff. All his fluff has a comic book esque feel to them and whilst it would be appropriate for a videogame or movie, it’s usually not appropriate for codices.

My main beef however is Ward’s tendency to mess around with other unrelated fluff in order to make the faction appear “extra heroic”.

I've read Ward's fluff and I really dislike it. I do think he destroyed the soul of what the Grey Knights were, and I think he trivialised what the Blood Angels were about. His two worst creations - Draigo and the Sanguinor - read like adolescent author self-insertion fan fiction, and his writing method reminds me of me when I was six (And then, and then, and then).

I am always the kind've person who is very hesitant to criticise someone's writing style. I'm a writer myself who's just managed to get my foot in the door recently, and I know that I am far from perfect. So criticising plot elements and things like that, fine, but to criticise a writer for being a bad writer, I'd have to be dead sure of that before I did it. I dislike C.S. Goto's stuff not because of the way it is written, but because of the subject matter (and the laughable mistakes). Warrick Kinrade's IA3 drove me nuts because of the contrived plot, not because of the way he wrote it. I despise the current 'Chaos' Codex with the fiery fury of a thousand burning suns, but as I even said right from the beginning, I like the fluff in that book because no matter the rules Gav always writes fun fluff.

So, with that preamble said - I think Ward is a bad writer. Internally inconsistent. Externally inconsistent. Contradictory within the same story and with other stories. The whole Mary Sue/author self-insertion fantasy nonsense, and the points mentioned above my post (especially the 'extra heroic' part). It's one thing to dislike what's written (the Guard Codex may be dull, but it's not badly written), but it's another to both dislike what's written and how it's written.


So go on. Call me a hater, or a bandwagoner or whatever other jargon doublespeak ad hominem you need to concoct to dismiss my point of view. That's fine. Won't change my opinion.

You presented your opinion with an argument. One that was thoughtfully constructed, and on a subject that rarely ever receives any sort of critical interpretation.

You seem to fit into the "Critical Critic" mold more so than that of all the other definitions though.

Soladrin wrote:Not just that, it may seem like most people hate ward. But the point is, the haters are all loudmouths. The vast majority has given up defending anything he writes because you just get shouted down by the "haters" anyway.

This.

Mat Ward is far and wide the best Codex Writer GW has and ever had (rules AND fluff).

But it's tiresome trying to convince the haters who just hate, largely because it's the "in-thing" to do on the net these days.

CpatTom wrote:You presented your opinion with an argument. One that was thoughtfully constructed, and on a subject that rarely ever receives any sort of critical interpretation.

Your thought out and non-reactionary response gives me hope in humanity.

Zweischneid wrote:Mat Ward is far and wide the best Codex Writer GW has and ever had (rules AND fluff).

But it's tiresome trying to convince the haters who just hate, largely because it's the "in-thing" to do on the net these days.

And your's takes that hope and dashes it against the rocks...

Ruleswise - he has created far less broken concepts than either Kelly or Cruddace

Also - cruddace writes better fluff than Ward? Really? If boredom is better than sloppy writing then maybe...

One thing I'm a little uneasy about is a comment GW made: 'the dispersion shield has a habit of reflecting their shooting attacks back at them.' This would make it very dangerous to shoot at the Lychguard, and by extension the HQ choice that would be shielded by them.

yamgrenade wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Because internet hyperbole =/= reality.

Do you mean people not on the internet feel differently or something?

Yes, completely.

The people who post on DakkaDakka are generally older and more veteran. They have played 40k for many years and they're also more interested in warhammer in general. E.g. they might have more than one army, they think about strategy and game about once a week or more.

Dakkadakka posters are a tiny minority of wargamers and a tiny percentage of GW's customer base. Most GW customers are a lot more casual, just play/collect occasionally and certainly don't have a strong opinion about Matt Ward, nor even know/care who writes the codices probably.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Ruleswise - he has created far less broken concepts than either Kelly or Cruddace

He single-handedly destroyed WHFB 7th edition, no other rules author has managed to come close to this prowess before or after...

Zweischneid wrote:
Mat Ward is far and wide the best Codex Writer GW has and ever had (rules AND fluff).

But it's tiresome trying to convince the haters who just hate, largely because it's the "in-thing" to do on the net these days.

Whats the matter little fanboy, are your little feelings hurt? Tell me on the BA dolly where the bad man touched you...

PhantomViper wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Ruleswise - he has created far less broken concepts than either Kelly or Cruddace

He single-handedly destroyed WHFB 7th edition, no other rules author has managed to come close to this prowess before or after...

Zweischneid wrote:
Mat Ward is far and wide the best Codex Writer GW has and ever had (rules AND fluff).

But it's tiresome trying to convince the haters who just hate, largely because it's the "in-thing" to do on the net these days.

Whats the matter little fanboy, are your little feelings hurt? Tell me on the BA dolly where the bad man touched you...

And when the arguments about Ward's sloppiness runs out, we get ad hom attacks. QED.

To be fair, he did pretty much break 7E fantasy with his Daemons book. 40k hasn't seen anything that broken since 2E Eldar.

Vaktathi wrote:To be fair, he did pretty much break 7E fantasy with his Daemons book. 40k hasn't seen anything that broken since 2E Eldar.

Sure it has. Primarily Chaos 3.5. Still the godfather of breaking games. 7E fantasy Daemons doesn't even come close to that POS. And 5th Edition IG with the 2nd-Ed Daemonhunter-allies came close too. As did 4th Edition Eldar Falcons.

Sasori wrote:The Vast Majority of Wargamers play Matt Ward Codexes. He is a money maker for GW.

And no, I just think it's a lot of Vocal people who have hate for Ward, certainly not the vast majority.

Hating his fluff is completely justifiable. His rules are generally quite balanced for 5th edition, while sometimes poorly written.

Matt Ward hate is just a popular bandwagon that a lot of people attach themselves to.

This. He writes fair rules & crap fluff. There is little else to say on the topic.

I can hear the sound of grinding up the mushrooms and worms that consumed the dead body of a horse

Agreed on bad fluff, decent non SC rules for the most part

Unless you're WE in which you're underpowered becuase of time

Zweischneid wrote:Sure it has. Primarily Chaos 3.5. Still the godfather of breaking games.

Uhh... no. 4 HS slots in one variant army does not a broken game create. Neither did Daemonbomb. 7th Ed Daemons broke the game.

Zweischneid wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:To be fair, he did pretty much break 7E fantasy with his Daemons book. 40k hasn't seen anything that broken since 2E Eldar.

Sure it has. Primarily Chaos 3.5. Still the godfather of breaking games. 7E fantasy Daemons doesn't even come close to that POS. And 5th Edition IG with the 2nd-Ed Daemonhunter-allies came close too. As did 4th Edition Eldar Falcons.

hrm, no. CSM 3.5 was nowhere near as broken as 7E daemons. Was CSM 3.5 abuseable? Yes. Was it unbeatable? Christ no. Were there other abuseable armies at the time? Yes. CSM 3.5 wasn't any tougher during its time than Tau or Necrons (if you remember back a few years before 5E, and especially in the tail years of 3E, Necrons and Tau were very powerful) or Craftworld Eldar/2006 Eldar during 3E/4E. DH allies for 5E IG was an e-fad that primarily made a couple popular builds unhappy but did relatively little to many opponents. None of these were as ridiculous as 2E Eldar or 7E WHFB Daemons.

7E Daemons were not only undercosted and overcapable, but they ignored many of the core mechanics of the game that many armies relied on for defeating opponents and made extensive use of morale on every single unit against opponents which primarily are Ld5-8. Within a year of that books release, the fantasy group at my local store devolved from a regular group of 7-10 guys to a couple guys playing on off-days with Daemons and Vampire Counts (another army that ignored two large core game mechanics).

Phantom et al - no, it was the combo of VC, Daemons and the FAR more broken DE that did 7th in. Guess how many of those dex's ward was responsible for.

Kelly managed to break 4th ed (Eldar) and damn near broke 5th (SW), so to claim "no other has come close" is fething rubbish as an argument.

Its one reason why I WELCOME them potentially redoing VC in January - they are so completely broken, along with DoC and DE, that they need a new book just to make them work in 8th without hideous comp requirements.

Ward's problem is fluff IMO, in that he can't write it reasonably. His rules could do with more clarity, but they work well enough.

I guess my problem with Ward's rules is not to do with balance issues, but just they are so much waffle. Actually, I'm wrong, it's not Ward in this specific regard - a lot of the current Codices suffer from this (DE has this problem is well).

They all have a lot of rules. A lot of wargear items - heaps of them. But they're just More Rules - they add lots of choice without adding any depth. Yeah it's great that the Inquisitor or the Grey Knight Grand Master or the Archon or the upcoming Cryptek has 30 different options. Who cares? They're all so shallow - just some slight variation on the same gun or the same sword or the same grenade that it doesn't add anything to the game bar more rules.

H.B.M.C. wrote:They all have a lot of rules. A lot of wargear items - heaps of them. But they're just More Rules - they add lots of choice without adding any depth. Yeah it's great that the Inquisitor or the Grey Knight Grand Master or the Archon or the upcoming Cryptek has 30 different options. Who cares? They're all so shallow - just some slight variation on the same gun or the same sword or the same grenade that it doesn't add anything to the game bar more rules.

What would you like to see them do then, if not add more rules? How do you give the wargear depth?

im2randomghgh wrote:Matt Ward's fluff is terrible, though based on what I have heard from Necrons, it seems he has actually done a decent backstory, though I am betting that the section of specific battles for necrons will be facepalm worthy.

Well, Necrons aren't Ultramarines or Grey Knights (I think they might not even be space marines!) - so maybe the Ward SM fanwank factor won't be turned up to 11 on this one.

Zweischneid wrote:Mat Ward is far and wide the best Codex Writer GW has and ever had (rules AND fluff).

I threw up a little bit in my mouth.

Zweischneid wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:To be fair, he did pretty much break 7E fantasy with his Daemons book. 40k hasn't seen anything that broken since 2E Eldar.

Sure it has. Primarily Chaos 3.5. Still the godfather of breaking games.

Right on! I mean, come on - the authors were such obvious Iron Warriors fanboys it's just ridiculous! Like, remember the part where Pete Haines created that warsmith special character who beat Rogal Dorn in single combat and then used his servo-arm to carve "IRON CAGE BITCH!" on the Imperial Fist primarch's forehead? Yeah, that was great...

I don't even bother to read the fluff in codexes any more. Haven't done in about 10 years.
I think people confuse "bad" with "terrible". Not everything is either amazing or dogshit.

3.5 Chaos were a powerful army but I beat them with virtually all of my armies. They were a GOOD and well diversified army imo, not like the current crap book

Fluff wise he is a little on the weak side. BUT keep in mind the audience that GW seems to be targeting. It's pretty well known that GW is targeting the younger audience. What does the younger audience respond to? Well, it's being the bestest! Draigo and Sanguinor were created to sell models. Fluff seems to be written that way as well.

Personally the major travesty of his codex writing was the Daemons book for 7E Fantasy. The result was a horrendously overpowered army that was not fun to play against. I did play against Daemons in 7E a few times. Wasn't impossible but knowing that you are at a disadvantage before even placing the models on the tablke can be annoying.

Currently I am neither a fan or hater of Mr.Ward. I think he is a game designer that was asked to write fluff that appeals to kiddies. He has done so brilliantly. My one fear for the Necrons is that something goes overboard. I like the new direction of fluff as it adds character but if we see more Draigo like stories it might get to be too much. I guess we shall see.

One more thing. I love the Dreadknight. It reminds me of carrying around my son in the Baby Bjorn.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Phantom et al - no, it was the combo of VC, Daemons and the FAR more broken DE that did 7th in. Guess how many of those dex's ward was responsible for.

Kelly managed to break 4th ed (Eldar) and damn near broke 5th (SW), so to claim "no other has come close" is fething rubbish as an argument.

Its one reason why I WELCOME them potentially redoing VC in January - they are so completely broken, along with DoC and DE, that they need a new book just to make them work in 8th without hideous comp requirements.

WHFB UK GT 2008: How many Demon armies where there in the top 10? 7! SEVEN armies in the top ten!

Sure, VC and DE where popular because they where really the only ones capable of standing up to the abomination that was Chaos Demons, but the sole responsible for the destruction of WHFB 7th ed where Chaos Demons and the birth of the inbred retardationfest that is 8th edition WHFB and for that Mat Ward gained the privilege of being in my nerd-hate list right alongside George Lucas and Steven Spielberg.

2ed Eldar where close, but I was just starting back then so my losses against them where just as much a result of my mistakes as an imbalance in the codex.

Chaos 3.5 and IG + DH don't even play in the same league as those previous 2.

And how many Daemon armies weren't in the top ten? If more people play it because it is perceived to be powerful, it's more likely they will get into the higher ranks.

Durza wrote:One thing I'm a little uneasy about is a comment GW made: 'the dispersion shield has a habit of reflecting their shooting attacks back at them.' This would make it very dangerous to shoot at the Lychguard, and by extension the HQ choice that would be shielded by them.

IIRC from what's been revealed so far, the reflection effect only 'bounces' a shot up to 6 inches.

Bookwrack wrote:

Durza wrote:One thing I'm a little uneasy about is a comment GW made: 'the dispersion shield has a habit of reflecting their shooting attacks back at them.' This would make it very dangerous to shoot at the Lychguard, and by extension the HQ choice that would be shielded by them.

IIRC from what's been revealed so far, the reflection effect only 'bounces' a shot up to 6 inches.

That's less worrisome then.