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Ascalam wrote:How come the armies that can actually shoot straight, like Marines and Eldar, also like to twinlink, but the ones that don't shoot as well have far less twin-linked stuff (Orks, Tau, Guard etc) ?

i would remove the tau from not good at shooting strait, with our markerlights its pretty easy to shoot strait. also the crisis suits, tau backbone, can shoot twinlinked as do broadsides. i agree we need it on the tanks though...

mine is tau
a shooty army that has a difficult time ID orks or any other T4 model unless theres nothing big left on table

pretre wrote:
Interesting. So although neither one is good against land raiders, Zzap and Kannons have roughly the same chance of doing something against one in one turn. (5.49 vs 6.25)

I think that Zzap are much more important as a source of AP2 in an army that doesn't have much reliable AP2. Man do I wish they still auto-hit though.

Zzap gunz are 45 points more than the kannons though, including ammo runts but not the extra crew.

In addition, you do need AP2 at all in an ork army. Shoota boyz are better at shooting terminators dead than zzap gunz are, point for point. The 5++ save already ruins the effectiveness of zap gunz, a rosarius/nemesis force sword or even a storm shield make them pretty much useless. If you get three good hits with the kannon's blast profile, you might kill just as many terminators than with those zzap gunz.

Top 10 for effectiveness (wounds/points) in killing 2+/5++ models by shooting only:
1. SAG
2. Kanz /w Grotzooka
3. Warphead
4. Shoota boyz, Gretchin
5. Badruk(if he were fielded by himself)
6. Zzap gun
7. Lootaz, Meks
8. Flash Gits
9. Kan /w KMB, Weird boy
10. Slugga boyz

That's how awesome ork low AP is

[@ Grots R OP

That makes perfect sense.

In the Ork society Nobs are the biggest and strongest (barring the Warboss, of course) and so they lay claim to the most loot and the snazziest equipment (like the Mega-Armour itself, for example). Whether they can use it or not should be completely irrelevant to the Nob. He is strong, therefore he should get it.

Now why said Meganobs do not have access to Cybork Bodies (kool gear) or Boss poles (status symbol showing he is the biggest and baddest).....now THAT makes no sense at all.


]

=Exactly!

IIRC Bospoles allow an armour save? If so then Bosspole on MANz would be exetremly OP, allowing them to pas all morale tests with virtually no risk of losing a model to the Bosspole, unlike in Boyz Mobz.

As for Cybork bodies, that does indeed confuse me.

You only get one reroll. You don't get to keep rolling until you pass.

Yeah, but at Ld 7, rerolling, and virtually no risk of casulties, let alone wounds, is oppowerful.

One of the biggest head scratch rules to me is in the BRB....

Walkers in H2H can only be hit by grenades on a 6.....


So a 10 man DE Wych unit with 10 haywire grenades, 6000 years of existing to kill things in H2H, Initiative 6, totally surrounding this large lumbering metal monster from every possible location.... Can not stick a haywire grenade on a dreadnaught to blow it up..... Now if the Dread was spinning like a Tasmanian Devil in H2H I could see but it seems ridicluos to me.

Grand Master Mordrak is Mastery Level 1.

Brother Captain Stern and Justicar Thawn are Mastery Level 2, the same as Librarians?

Deadshot wrote:Grand Master Mordrak is Mastery Level 1.

Brother Captain Stern and Justicar Thawn are Mastery Level 2, the same as Librarians?

Psychic power is traditionally a gift that you are born with. Sure you can train it up a bit, but you can't get more than you start with. It makes perfect sense that some GK would have more psychic power than others.

Milisim wrote:One of the biggest head scratch rules to me is in the BRB....

Walkers in H2H can only be hit by grenades on a 6.....


So a 10 man DE Wych unit with 10 haywire grenades, 6000 years of existing to kill things in H2H, Initiative 6, totally surrounding this large lumbering metal monster from every possible location.... Can not stick a haywire grenade on a dreadnaught to blow it up..... Now if the Dread was spinning like a Tasmanian Devil in H2H I could see but it seems ridicluos to me.

That is, indeed, the justification for the rule.

Deadnoughts aren't exactly 'lumbering', and in order to be effective a grenade has to be placed and attached in precisely the right spot. Just slapping it onto the armor won't do anything.

BeRzErKeR wrote:

Milisim wrote:One of the biggest head scratch rules to me is in the BRB....

Walkers in H2H can only be hit by grenades on a 6.....


So a 10 man DE Wych unit with 10 haywire grenades, 6000 years of existing to kill things in H2H, Initiative 6, totally surrounding this large lumbering metal monster from every possible location.... Can not stick a haywire grenade on a dreadnaught to blow it up..... Now if the Dread was spinning like a Tasmanian Devil in H2H I could see but it seems ridicluos to me.

That is, indeed, the justification for the rule.

Deadnoughts aren't exactly 'lumbering', and in order to be effective a grenade has to be placed and attached in precisely the right spot. Just slapping it onto the armor won't do anything.

What about Eldar War Walkers?

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

What about Eldar War Walkers?

Have YOU ever tried to attach a grenade to something that's repeatedly kicking you in the head with its enormous wraithbone foot? It ain't as easy as it looks. . .

Walkers move like infantry in almost every respect. They can walk, run, and hit things with the same speed, but more power. If you've played Dawn of War 2, the SM dreadnaughts are an example of how they act.

BeRzErKeR wrote:

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

What about Eldar War Walkers?

Have YOU ever tried to attach a grenade to something that's repeatedly kicking you in the head with its enormous wraithbone foot? It ain't as easy as it looks. . .

Your ass, my size 290 hoof

I see warwalker combat as being a cross between Riverdance and russian squat-kick dancing, for some reason

Ascalam wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

What about Eldar War Walkers?

Have YOU ever tried to attach a grenade to something that's repeatedly kicking you in the head with its enormous wraithbone foot? It ain't as easy as it looks. . .

Your ass, my size 290 hoof

I see warwalker combat as being a cross between Riverdance and russian squat-kick dancing, for some reason

LOL! I was thinking the same thing xD.
And what's even better is that the Eldar have some celtic influence in their fluff.

Sentinals too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sentinals too.

Deadshot wrote:Yeah, but at Ld 7, rerolling, and virtually no risk of casulties, let alone wounds, is oppowerful.

Succeeding Ld7 with a reroll is about as likely as ld9. You just claimed that all ld9 (or higher) units are overpowered

The Whole Chaos Space Marines codex...

Warwalker squadron gets stones (like extra armor) for +X pts per model. But the squadron rule says that a squadron has built-in extra armor.

wuestenfux wrote:Warwalker squadron gets stones (like extra armor) for +X pts per model. But the squadron rule says that a squadron has built-in extra armor.

Not if you lose all but one walker or field just one in the first place. Many squadrons can take extra armor or equivalents.

Milisim wrote:One of the biggest head scratch rules to me is in the BRB....

Walkers in H2H can only be hit by grenades on a 6.....


So a 10 man DE Wych unit with 10 haywire grenades, 6000 years of existing to kill things in H2H, Initiative 6, totally surrounding this large lumbering metal monster from every possible location.... Can not stick a haywire grenade on a dreadnaught to blow it up..... Now if the Dread was spinning like a Tasmanian Devil in H2H I could see but it seems ridicluos to me.

It is easier to take out a tank or other vehicle with a grenade because it isn't fighting back in hand to hand. A dreadnought is a full participant in the melee, so getting that grenade into the right spot to do the job is a little harder because while you are trying to place the grenade the dread is doing its best to keep you from placing the grenade.

Skriker

Any deep striking close combat unit such as:
Lictors / Death leaper
Mandrakes / Decapitator
Bloodletters / Skull taker

They all have "scary" fluff talking about how they appear out of nowhere and do serious damage. Rule wise, there's really no point in deep striking next to your opponent as they will just shoot you in the face.

^ Yes, that fluff rubbish would only work if you could deep strike next to someone and immediately assault them.

Well, at least Tyranid players can stop whining about a thin metal layer from a transport protecting you from the Shadow in the Warp now.

Not sure if anyone has said this but why do scourges get assualt grenades. It even says in their fluff they avoid close combat.I could understand defensive grenades but assualt grenades?

He's one that I like

Vulkan and Astorath both have power weapons that let them strike at strength 6, yet they get krak grenades.

Also, Kantor has frag and krak grenades and his only CCW is a powerfist.

EmilCrane wrote:He's one that I like

Vulkan and Astorath both have power weapons that let them strike at strength 6, yet they get krak grenades.

Also, Kantor has frag and krak grenades and his only CCW is a powerfist.

Kantor might have them if he wanted to strike at initiative against a walker.

codex:tyranids

figure:
spore mines &
biovores.

problem:
firing at close range.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

EmilCrane wrote:He's one that I like

Vulkan and Astorath both have power weapons that let them strike at strength 6, yet they get krak grenades.

Also, Kantor has frag and krak grenades and his only CCW is a powerfist.

Kantor might have them if he wanted to strike at initiative against a walker.

That and all marines have them...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kshaw2000 wrote:codex:tyranids

figure:
spore mines &
biovores.

problem:
firing at close range.

Wait, let me get this straight... Artillery has a problem firing at short range? NO WAI.

Biovores arn't artillery and I do.not believe they have a min. range.