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shingouki wrote:So has it failed globally due to high prices or is it just not what gamers are looking for?

The latter I think. Price can be a factor, but even if Dreadfleet had been £20, I wouldn't have bought it. The appeal just wasn't there.

I agree with Flashman. Pirates of the Spanish Main was more fun, had better play mechanics, and greater variety of ships. Too bad WizKids' game developement team had to poison it with their shoddy game unit design/costing and utter lack of understanding of what factions are and how they are supposed to work.

AgeOfEgos wrote:I think the most interesting question from all of this is---why did Dreadfleet fail (If it indeed did). From all I've heard (and seen);


The rules are solid and fun
The miniatures are terrific
The ocean mat looks great


So, provided all of those are true, I can really only think of three reasons it might have failed;


Poor product launch (Yes)
Poor pricing model (Yes)
Poor genre (While I'm not a Fantasy fan, I do recognize its popularity-I don't think this is a contributor)



So, Dreadfleet is priced 90 bucks and hyped for a good two months before hand--with tie in Fantasy landing scenarios = success?

The rules are far from being "solid and fun", they are actually too random and make the game long and boring. This has been stated in several specialized board game reviews and has helped turn the board game fans away from Deadfleet.

The miniatures are not terrific, they are overly busy and cartoonish and also suffer from the "too many skulls!" syndrome that seems to pervade newer GW miniature releases. Again, this helped turn the more mature audience away from the product.

The ocean mat looks great, I agree with you there, but it has very poor dimensions that don't allow it to be readily used in other game systems. If the matt had a more standard size (and / or the price was a bit more affordable), it could have helped shift a few more copies from people willing to use it in stuff like Dystopian Wars and similar games.

Several people have already commented that they've seen Deadfleet advertised at 40% off and more, and it still didn't sell, people need to start acknowledging the fact that it was just a bad product in itself and it doesn't even have the redeeming quality of using its components in other systems.

Come tax time, GW can write off production costs for unsold merchandise. But that merchandise has to be destroyed so it has no potental value in the future.

I, for one, feel a bit sorry for Dreadfleet. The miniatures were quite cool (even if the Skabrus looked like a depressed kipper) and it seems to have very in-depth and interesting rules, to the delight of navy nerds everywhere. Now, I haven't played it, and haven't bought it, but if this rumour is true (and that's a big if) it makes me very sad.

So, think the GW Marketing team is already blaming the genre instead of the fact that they weren't going to support it at all?

They should of just done the re-release of Warhammer Quest.....

Squigsquasher wrote:I, for one, feel a bit sorry for Dreadfleet. The miniatures were quite cool (even if the Skabrus looked like a depressed kipper) and it seems to have very in-depth and interesting rules, to the delight of navy nerds everywhere. Now, I haven't played it, and haven't bought it, but if this rumour is true (and that's a big if) it makes me very sad.

And GW cares nothing for your tears since you weren't a customer. As someone who thought it was cool but apparently not cool enough to actually buy, you are partly responsible for your own sadness. Personally, I wasn't in the market for a naval game (let alone a WHFB-based cartoony one with a high price point) so the trashing/discontinuing/concentration of the boxed game doesn't really affect me in any particular way. Good feelings and a general sense of happiness about their product lines don't matter much to a publicly traded company, only sales. If you like something, buy it and it might stick around.

I think the fail came from price mainly, and the limitedness second. Price was too high for mom to buy for lil billy who was begging for that or an xbox, and probably most of the vets that could afford it knew from being a vet that GW would do everything they can to forget the game exists in a year (in this case, much less).

That said, I might have gotten it if I had a regular gaming group and lots of time. But right now if I wanted to get into a boat game, I'd go for Dystopian wars (?).. or just stick with BFG.

mikhaila wrote:I'd take this with a grain of salt. They could just as easily be sending recalling them for mailorder to sell, rather than keeping them in stores.

My question is more related to how this will impact small game stores. Many of these folks own their inventory so it is not as easy as just recalling it. Unless they are going to issue a credit to the store's account at a whole sale price. This seems unlikely as it would cause them to take a heavy Q1 expense to their bottom line. I suspect they are recalling from all GW stores, but will just let whatever the local stores own sell out locally or via ebay. The alternative is very expensive and in my mind that makes it unlikely for them.

Couldn't find this in the thread.

"What's new today" mentioned that Dreadfleet will taken off the GW website and only sold via the GW stores: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=1100098-gws.

So, guess that lends some credibility to this rumor (if it can even be called a rumor).

Cheers

Can't say I'm surprised. Dreadfleet simply was an unappealing product (mainly due to the price, IMO), and the poor reviews it received didn't help much either.

I wonder if some of the users who were absolutely certain that it would sell out are willing to admit their error.

Mr Proudhoof wrote:They should of just done the re-release of Warhammer Quest.....

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Backfire wrote:I mean, lets be honest here, if GW had released just another wave of Nids and Space Marines or something whichs components could be used in one of their main games, there would be complaints how GW just concentrates on their main selling points and ignores Specialist Games and whatnot

Not really... ?

If that were the case, then wouldn't we see more "Oh! A new Ogre book? Why aren't they supporting Inquisitor!" or "Vampires again? What about Mordheim?". Except we don't hear that. Ever. At all.

Huh? Many people are bitching about that, or variation thereof, all the time. "GW concentrates only on Space Marines, why won't we see BB relaunched?".

H.B.M.C. wrote:
You're trying to find alternate reasons for Dreadfleet's failings when the failings have been explained clearly to you by several posters in this thread. Dreadfleet didn't fail because it wasn't Space Marines. It failed because it was Dreadfleet.

Lets try this: what if Space Hulk had been, say, Kroot vs Necron? Do you think it would have sold out that quickly - or at all? Honestly? What would have been the first comment by many?

"Hmm, looks nice, but those armies don't interest me at all".

And really, you completely misrepresent me: I am not trying to find any "alternative reasons for failing". I am pointing out the hypocrisy of complaining about GW concentrating too much on Space Marines or other similarly "safe" product lines, and then bitching when GW releases something which is NOT part of their main product lines.

I don't give a damn about Blood Bowl, or Inquisitor, or indeed any of the Fantasy line (including Dreadfleet), but if and when they release something on that front, you sure as hell don't see ME whining "Why they had to waste resources on that when they could have finally released Belial mini which is still missing from DA line?"

In addition to what PhantomViper said, I think it's worth pointing out that it's a limited edition board game with a hundred page rulebook and 140 cards. To me, this says that your opponent probably needs quite a bit of time to become familar with the rules, but that they probably can't own a copy to peruse at their leisure.

In other words, just the gross attributes of the game would suggest to a potential customer that it is a poor pick-up game.

Backfire wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:
You're trying to find alternate reasons for Dreadfleet's failings when the failings have been explained clearly to you by several posters in this thread. Dreadfleet didn't fail because it wasn't Space Marines. It failed because it was Dreadfleet.

Lets try this: what if Space Hulk had been, say, Kroot vs Necron? Do you think it would have sold out that quickly - or at all? Honestly? What would have been the first comment by many?

Space Hulk sold out because it was Space Hulk it was a particular game that back in its hayday got a lot of people playing 40k by introducing people to the universe. Its that strong nostalgic value that sold it. If it were Kroot and Necrons then and had the same nostalgic appeal, then yes selling it that way now it would have sold out. But if you're saying had GW made the game into something it was not would it have sold out?-No obviously.

Space Hulk, only a small number of the purchasers were experiancing it for the first time. Dreadfleet 100% of the players were experiancing it for the first time. Dreadfleet lacks an established fanbase and nostalgia, thats why I think it failed. People complain about the price point for both games and the simple reality is that a game at that price level has to really stand out or have an established base who will buy it regardless of price. Space Hulk had it, Dreadfleet didn't.

Moopy wrote:

Backfire wrote:
When Space Hulk came out, there was EXACT SAME COMPLAINING about how expensive it was. But it sold out, because it was Space Marines.

Wrong.

It sold out because it was a REALLY FUN GAME, that had a lot of high quality materials (minis, boards, etc) in the box.

If this was the only criteria Dreadfleet should have sold well, it was a fun game and was made of plenty of quality materials the box for one was very good.

If GW does a stand alone blood bowl with 4 teams in the box I'd really want to see the other teams in print for conversion purposes, and possibly more in white dwarf at a later date.

With all the Warhammer plastics currently available I could imagine some pretty cool converted teams.

mikhaila wrote:I'd take this with a grain of salt. They could just as easily be sending recalling them for mailorder to sell, rather than keeping them in stores.

Or maybe it is going out of production after all.

... out of distribution, to be precise (production is long over being a limited release)

As we mentioned a few weeks ago, Dreadfleet will be disappearing from the Games Workshop website at midnight (PST) tonight. So, if you haven't grabbed your copy yet, make sure you buy one before they sail off into the Galleon's Graveyard.

Some Games Workshop Hobby Centre's may still have a few copies left in stock, but you'll have to be quick to get your hands on them.

So move fast and get your copy before they sail off into the sunset.

From GW site.



....ahhhh....and good by to old rubbish....

Thread should be closed now.

Kroothawk wrote:... out of distribution, to be precise (production is long over being a limited release)

You knew what I meant.

Kroothawk wrote:... out of distribution, to be precise (production is long over being a limited release)

The thing is 'limited edition' is a bit of an ambiguous term. Unless the product is clearly marked with a printed note of some form, or certificate, they can write 'limited edition' an anything they want while they get pumped out by the tens of thousands.

I used to work in an Independent that sold corgi die-cast cars/planes etc. They would sometimes make an initial run of say a particular type of Spitfire with a specific colour scheme, all of those models would contain a note certifying that particular models number out of 2000. But if something sold out particularly quickly, they would make another production run of it. We would get a telephone call from Corgi HQ asking us to remove all of the certificates from stock we still had, otherwise they would get rapped by trading standards. As you can imagine this policy wasn't particularly popular with people who had already bought it, and the company received quite a lot of negative press about it.

Look at a couple of the recent BL books which have been released on limited edition - they come clearly marked with a certain number, which they will not exceed.
AFAIK Dreadfleet has got not certification with it which means it is not 'Limited Edition' in the legal sense of the term. GW would be free to do what they did with Space Hulk, and 'find more stock in the warehouse' if it had sold out quickly.

Marking Dreadfleet as 'Limited Edition' is nothing more than a marketing move, and no different to Burger King putting a 'limited edition' on their latest Heart Buster Maximum and then making and selling a million of them.

aka_mythos wrote:Lets try this: what if Space Hulk had been, say, Kroot vs Necron? Do you think it would have sold out that quickly - or at all? Honestly? What would have been the first comment by many?

Space Hulk sold out because it was Space Hulk it was a particular game that back in its hayday got a lot of people playing 40k by introducing people to the universe. Its that strong nostalgic value that sold it.

I can't believe that so many people debated on this topic. The game failed because:
1. Lack of proper promotion. This is the fundamental rule in maketing of any new product. Not even Microsoft, Apple, Sony will put out any of their new product without adequate advertisment. GW simple is stupid enough to think that players will buy whatever they put out. The game fell flat on its face and GW deserves it. Don't tell me you are dumb enough to see that.
2. Dreadfleet is not a bad game but it is definately not a traditional naval game. Some players simply have no interest in naval battles. Those who do are too unexpected to see how the game is run.
3. Limited edition. This is GW's definition. Space Hulk should be considered limited run,not the traditional view of a limited edition. The lack of future support or expansion is a definite turn off. This is same as buying a product without any warranty. If the official GW forum still exists, I bet you can no longer mention the word "Dreadfleet" there or your post will be deleted. I don't understand why some people put up with this type of nonsense for such a long time.
4. Who is going to buy it? The game is not cheap, though not unreasonable. It takes skills and time to paint up those ships and they are definitely not for beginners. Veteran players already spent lots of money in either 40K, WHFB or both. Do you expect them to spent another $100 on that game and more importantly the tremendous amount of time to paint those ship to a good quality. I bet more of the players already have a hard time keeping up with multiple updates and expansions.
The game was "dead" within a month after its release. I am surprised that some peole simply cannot see it. Blind royality? What did you get from GW actually?

If GW would take the "Space Hulk" model of tiles, a few miniatures, and a small, 30 page rulebook, they wouldn't even need to worry about recalled games.

Eldar Vs Bugs, Necrons Vs Orks, Nids vs IG, etc.etc.etc....

The tiles don't even need to be all space hulk all of the time. Webways, Tunnels, Areas of smashed up roadways, etc.etc.etc....


It doesn't take much to make them and print them on cardstock, or plastic.

The allure of Space hulk is the simplicity and diversion that it gives. The clock idea was awsome, and the easy worry about what your guys can do while you go around and find stuff in a dark hallway doesn't hurt much either. That and the fact that you can openly use your imagination for your game to go to otehr hieghts, such as adding in , not Space Marines, but Orks, or Chaos Termies, or some Wrathguard, in the place of the Termies...

That Dreadfleet was just an outright bad idea. Whoever came up with it as an idea that it would sell well needs thier head examined. We called it as bad mojo when it came out, because there is just no defending stupid, bad ideas.

Howard A Treesong wrote:How many awards has Dreadfulfleet got? Been nominated for any? Or will it be swept under the carpet with some of GW's other embarrassments? Hmmm...

This. Space Hulk has won two Origins Awards (Best Sci-Fi Game 1990 and Best Game 2009). That's two more than all of the rest of GW's output combined.

Grot 6 wrote:
That Dreadfleet was just an outright bad idea. Whoever came up with it as an idea that it would sell well needs thier head examined. We called it as bad mojo when it came out, because there is just no defending stupid, bad ideas.

You called it bad mojo, but you call everything GW puts out these days bad mojo. Don't think the general idea of Dreadfleet was a bad idea and there are plenty of people that like pirates, especially zombie pirates. It suffered from one major issue and that was price. $115 US was a premium compared to all the other coffin box games it was competing for on the shelves. Most top shelf games with that number of detailed pieces were around $90 (which it what I bought my copy at). There have been a lot worst and far more idiotic games that have gone onto the shelves at game stores. At that price though, most everyone I knew did not want to gamble with it. So it stayed on the shelf.

Otherwise it was a minor game with some interesting ideas and nice miniatures. Was it for everyone? No. But then I never cared for Warhammer Quest or Blood Bowl. Again, I was happy to see GW try something different and hope this wasn't so big a failure that it will stop them from trying other stuff. Unfortunately what GW probably took away from this is "Space Marines sell. Other stuff doesn't."

Grot 6 wrote:If GW would take the "Space Hulk" model of tiles, a few miniatures, and a small, 30 page rulebook, they wouldn't even need to worry about recalled games.

Eldar Vs Bugs, Necrons Vs Orks, Nids vs IG, etc.etc.etc....

The tiles don't even need to be all space hulk all of the time. Webways, Tunnels, Areas of smashed up roadways, etc.etc.etc....


It doesn't take much to make them and print them on cardstock, or plastic.

The allure of Space hulk is the simplicity and diversion that it gives. The clock idea was awesome, and the easy worry about what your guys can do while you go around and find stuff in a dark hallway doesn't hurt much either. That and the fact that you can openly use your imagination for your game to go to other heights, such as adding in , not Space Marines, but Orks, or Chaos Termies, or some Wrathguard, in the place of the Termies.

This is actually a really good idea and something that came to my mind last year. Boxed games designed in this fashion could also serve as entry points into GW’s main product line (assuming the boxed games are priced reasonably on not $190AUD like Dreadfleet).

That being said, GW are of the opinion that people will always by their products, no matter the price or quality forevermore. I full on expect this year’s boxed game to be priced at $250AUD.

I really would other tile-sets that are compatible with the Space Hulk tiles. I’ve got a couple of sets of the old Tyranid Attack tiles, and they work with the Hulk tiles (1st, 2nd and 3rd Ed)... but updated Tyranid ship tiles using the new 3rd Ed Hulk art-style? Those would be amazing. Craftworld tiles? More amazing.

I’ve only played 1 game of Space Hulk since buying the 3rd Ed box, but thanks to the fine folks at Fantasy Flight Games I’ve got 10 times my money’s worth out of those board pieces thanks to the 40K RPG’s. More tiles is always a good thing.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

mikhaila wrote:I'd take this with a grain of salt. They could just as easily be sending recalling them for mailorder to sell, rather than keeping them in stores.

Or maybe it is going out of production after all.

Love that they made sure to say, "Some Games Workshop Hobby Centre's may still have a few copies left in stock, but you'll have to be quick to get your hands on them."

As if they sold out in the first place.