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Because all GK players have the justicar out front or won't think to take a LOS will they?

Boss GreenNutz wrote:
Because all GK players have the justicar out front or won't think to take a LOS will they?

Go read the Brotherhood of Psykers rule again. Doesn't matter if you hit the Justicar or not, he's eating the Perils.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Boss GreenNutz wrote:
Because all GK players have the justicar out front or won't think to take a LOS will they?

Go read the Brotherhood of Psykers rule again. Doesn't matter if you hit the Justicar or not, he's eating the Perils.

And secondly half this thread has been discussing the issue of the rules not alowing the allocation or LOS of hits, only wounds.

The ruling for the Las Vegas GT regarding condemnors is the following. All editing issues between the epub and ibook aside. There's also no such thing as a LoS for hits, only wounds. So the Wound from the Str5 could be LoS'd but not the PotW

Condemnor Boltgun for Sisters of battle. When it hits a unit with a psyker, it does normal damage and causes Perils. Now in a unit with more than one psyker, does it cause Perils to every psyker or unit with brotherhood of psykers? Or just one? If just one, how do you determine which one?
We read it as one Perils allocated to the closest psyker.

- See more at: http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2013/10/22/signals-from-the-frontline-warhammer-40k-and-general-gaming-news-rumors-tactics-and-humor-3/#sthash.L6iimTnn.dpuf

Keep this in mind when choosing where and how many of the condemnors to take.

You do realize that the DEX entry everyone was talking about for the first 5 pages was changed don't you?

I have the dex. I bought it on Black Library There's a conflict between the Epub and the Ibook. Therefore the issue is not settled. And the fact that the wording is the same as my 4th ed Witch Hunters dex is more reason to believe that the Ibook version is yet another of the many errors in editing on the dex. Added to the literal admission by GW in this thread that it's not correct and there have been no intentional changes since the first issuance.

The ruling for the GT stands and I'm willing to bet that Condemnor is going to be meant to coutneract cheaty psyker units like screamerstar and seer counsil.

But screamerstar and Eldar munchkins who want their win button like a fat kid wants a candy bar at the expense of the hobby at large don't want to listen.

This is the newly worded entry ( mine updated today) in the ibook copy. Unfortunately fairly clear the psyker has to be closest to even take a perils.

Psi-Shock
Any psyker hit by a stake crossbow shot suffers the Perils of the Warp in addition to any other effects.  

I explained it to you already, read my post again. That is the wording for the 4th edition dex, which cruddace obviously copypastad as the base for the new dex. Which is why Confessor Krynov still appears in an inexplicably unedited paragraph after Jacobus.

Also stake crossbow doesn't exist in the current game. Therefore my entry which defines the rules for condemnor boltgun (which is not a stake crossbow, or a meltagun, or a splinter rifle, or anything else which is not called condemnor boltgun) supercedes it. Not arguable.

Also Games Workshop has literally come down into this thread and said that they haven't edited the dex from the original text. Therefore the reinclusion of the stake crossbow text is fairly obviously an error and not intentional.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:
This is the newly worded entry ( mine updated today) in the ibook copy. Unfortunately fairly clear the psyker has to be closest to even take a perils.

Psi-Shock
Any psyker hit by a stake crossbow shot suffers the Perils of the Warp in addition to any other effects.  

And? That has already been posted, and shown to be useless. You don't hit models, you hit units, and the stake crossbow doesn't exist....

B.B.B.but this will make my screamerstar merely amazing and not simply autowin!

dadakkaest wrote:
I explained it to you already, read my post again. That is the wording for the 4th edition dex, which cruddace obviously copypastad as the base for the new dex. Which is why Confessor Krynov still appears in an inexplicably unedited paragraph after Jacobus.

Also stake crossbow doesn't exist in the current game. Therefore my entry which defines the rules for condemnor boltgun (which is not a stake crossbow, or a meltagun, or a splinter rifle, or anything else which is not called condemnor boltgun) supercedes it. Not arguable.

Also Games Workshop has literally come down into this thread and said that they haven't edited the dex from the original text. Therefore the reinclusion of the stake crossbow text is fairly obviously an error and not intentional.

They then said yesterday that they just released the update and then I got confirmation that another update is coming as soon as iTunes approves it.

Thanks CwZ. I also sent GW a note and tried to get an expedited ruling.

I really hope all of our messages to GW will result in a clear, concise rule regarding this weapon that balances the psyker abusing army lists in the current meta and is a boost to sisters, Grey Knights, and Codex: Inquisition making them competitive armies in the future.

The current situation of broken Eldar and Chaos lists in meta mostly due to abuse of psykers needs to be balanced.

dadakkaest wrote:But screamerstar and Eldar munchkins who want their win button like a fat kid wants a candy bar at the expense of the hobby at large don't want to listen.

dadakkaest wrote:B.B.B.but this will make my screamerstar merely amazing and not simply autowin!

Accusations of bias are cute. Especially since the GT ruling means literally nothing outside that GT.
Do you want to discuss rules or just throw out insults?

Remember, it will take 6 Condmenor shots to kill a Farseer. 7 to kill Eldrad.

 Happyjew wrote:
Remember, it will take 6 Condmenor shots to kill a Farseer. 7 to kill Eldrad.

I think paying the points for a Condemner is a fair trade for Eldrad getting less powers off. (I'd pay it if I ever took a Hereticus Inq)

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Remember, it will take 6 Condmenor shots to kill a Farseer. 7 to kill Eldrad.

I think paying the points for a Condemner is a fair trade for Eldrad getting less powers off. (I'd pay it if I ever took a Hereticus Inq)

Except he'll still get to cast the same number of powers, since Warp Charges are generated at the start of each (player) turn.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Boss GreenNutz wrote:
This is the newly worded entry ( mine updated today) in the ibook copy. Unfortunately fairly clear the psyker has to be closest to even take a perils.

Psi-Shock
Any psyker hit by a stake crossbow shot suffers the Perils of the Warp in addition to any other effects.  

And? That has already been posted, and shown to be useless. You don't hit models, you hit units, and the stake crossbow doesn't exist....

The sad part is you believe this. I guess you've never heard of the term combi weapon where on part is a bolter and the other part is a.......wait for it.......stake crossbow. Do yourself a favor and take a look at the Adepta Sororitus Dex under the weapons section. Actually read it and guess what you find as the description for the condemnor boltgun? Any bet you find the words "stake crossbow".

The rule is not for a condemnor boltgun. It's for a stake crossbow from 4th edition which is a compltely seperate weapon and is in fact, not a combi-weapon...

Psykers take perils and are removed from the table. This is the ruling from the TO's of the Las Vegas GT.

GT TO > You.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Boss GreenNutz wrote:
This is the newly worded entry ( mine updated today) in the ibook copy. Unfortunately fairly clear the psyker has to be closest to even take a perils.

Psi-Shock
Any psyker hit by a stake crossbow shot suffers the Perils of the Warp in addition to any other effects.  

And? That has already been posted, and shown to be useless. You don't hit models, you hit units, and the stake crossbow doesn't exist....

The sad part is you believe this. I guess you've never heard of the term combi weapon where on part is a bolter and the other part is a.......wait for it.......stake crossbow. Do yourself a favor and take a look at the Adepta Sororitus Dex under the weapons section. Actually read it and guess what you find as the description for the condemnor boltgun? Any bet you find the words "stake crossbow".

Please cite permission to use fluff as rules.

Since the name of the weapon is "Condemnor Boltgun" (as listed in the profile for the one-shot weapon), and not "Stake Crossbow". Now, if you read the information for the GK Condmenor Boltgun, you'll notice the rues refer to the one-shot weapon as a "stake-crossbow".

These rules are more recent than the 5th edition codex you are citing and supercede the now outdated codex text unless you have expressly agreed to play by 5th edition rules..

dadakkaest wrote:
The rule is not for a condemnor boltgun. It's for a stake crossbow from 4th edition which is a compltely seperate weapon and is in fact, not a combi-weapon...

Psykers take perils and are removed from the table. This is the ruling from the TO's of the Las Vegas GT.

GT TO > You.

The Condemnor used to be called "Bolter-Stake Crossbow" which was specifically mentioned to be a combi-weapon in 3rd actually.

The name changed but the weapon is the same, and that is not the old rule for that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, GT TO is only "> you" when you play in their tournament, otherwise they are no greater than any other player out there.

Okay I give up, you guys win. Go screamerstar and Ovesastar spam each other until the whole hobby collapses in on itself for lack of balance, diversity, and competitiveness.

 Happyjew wrote:

Boss GreenNutz wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Boss GreenNutz wrote:
This is the newly worded entry ( mine updated today) in the ibook copy. Unfortunately fairly clear the psyker has to be closest to even take a perils.

Psi-Shock
Any psyker hit by a stake crossbow shot suffers the Perils of the Warp in addition to any other effects.  

And? That has already been posted, and shown to be useless. You don't hit models, you hit units, and the stake crossbow doesn't exist....

The sad part is you believe this. I guess you've never heard of the term combi weapon where on part is a bolter and the other part is a.......wait for it.......stake crossbow. Do yourself a favor and take a look at the Adepta Sororitus Dex under the weapons section. Actually read it and guess what you find as the description for the condemnor boltgun? Any bet you find the words "stake crossbow".

Please cite permission to use fluff as rules.

Since the name of the weapon is "Condemnor Boltgun" (as listed in the profile for the one-shot weapon), and not "Stake Crossbow". Now, if you read the information for the GK Condmenor Boltgun, you'll notice the rues refer to the one-shot weapon as a "stake-crossbow".

Are you saying you'd not allow someone to use the AS condemnor in a game?
So by your logic there is no such thing as a combi flamer, melta or anything else? When you fire the melta part of a combi metla what is the STR and AP of the shot? How do you know it is a melta weapon? Could it be due to the description of the weapon. The Stake Crossbow isnt in fluff it is in the Weapon description. Or is what you are saying is that you don't beleive the description of a crossbow armature that fires silver stakes with siguls isn't a stake crossbow? If that is your stance OK then I guess we are done here.

@dadakkaest: This is a "Rules as Written" forum, not a "Rules as Interpretted by TOs in Events Only a Few Will Play At".

Just because it's broken right now does not mean it will be broken later. GW Digital Editions has already said an update is on the way, it just needs to get approved by iTunes first. Until we see what that says unbunch your britches and take it easy. This isn't going to break the game, it leaves the game no worse than where it was before Sisters got an update.

Besides if people want anti-psyker so bad, take Grey Knights for the time being. Between their Condemnors and Minstrike Missiles, they can make a mess of some Psykers.

Or Tyranids.

Well if we're going with RAW then the Condemnor does perils on every psyker in the unit, because that's what the last codex update says, regardless of what Ipad users say. See the earlier communication with GW in the thread for reference.

I'm fine with that.

I also pulled my sisters out of the basement after 10 years for this update. If they nerf condemnors while ignoring abuse of chaos 2++ rerollable and Deldar/eldar rerollable invulnerable saves, I'm going to write GW a long letter full of nasty words and sell them. Simple as that. I'm kind of upset about their inability to balance the game in regards to these obviously broken rules.

dadakkaest wrote:
Well if we're going with RAW then the Condemnor does perils on every psyker in the unit, because that's what the last codex update says, regardless of what Ipad users say. See the earlier communication with GW in the thread for reference.

I'm fine with that.

Except that's not what it says at all. Please leave your obvious bias out of your posts.

Nonsesnse accusations of bias

Everyone should be biased. aginst metagame breaking rules like 2++ rerollable saves.

AFAIK in my ebook says the unit takes perils from a condemnor bolt gun. This is the only 6th edition text for this rule.

Psi-shock: Any unit with the Pskyer, Brotherhood of Psykers or Psychic Pilot special rules that is hit by a weapon with this special rule suffers the Perils of the Warp in addition to any other damage.

Any unit.

That means the whole unit.

On a hit.

Stake crossbows aren't in my codex.

You can disagree, but you're wrong.

That's my interpretation of the RAW. Period.

@dadakaest, have you tried updating your ebook codex? I'm just curious if there is a more recent version for you since the Black Library site says there was an update:

Black Library wrote:Latest Update:
November 7th 2013 - Condemnor Boltgun and Allies rules clarifications

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Also, could you tone it down a bit? You're being overly defensive about this topic and as established even if it got resolved today, you'd need to hit Eldrad with roughly 7 Perils in the same turn actually kill him that way. He's more likely to die from wounds from the S5, AP- shot first than the actual Perils. It's a nice utility weapon but it's not game changing and frankly there aren't enough Sisters armies out there for it to really change how things are being played.

I guess this is just what I get for expecting GW to give a damn about veteran players. Okay I give I'll stop trying to play an interesting and rareish army and go play screamerstar, wave serpent, and riptide spam.

feth this game.