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That's fine if you think my attitude is offensive. I never said telling your friends racist jokes is a good thing, in fact, I would say doing that just seems like a dumb idea. I don't have much of an opinion on the rest of your post.

 Fifty wrote:
Radiation, I have to say, I find your attitude offensive. Your attitude, and others like it are the reason I posted in this thread. And after pontificating throughout this thread, when someone gives some real examples, you then won't actually either stick your neck out to say something is racist, or wind it back in and admit that racist jokes/comments between friends does not make someone a racist.

I just don't get how any of you feel you have the right to make your judgements on people you have never met, having conversations with people you have never met, then go out of your way to avoid admitting that context matters.

Let me ask this then. Was it racist when Lincoln joked that I did not want tea because he was black? Or was he only jokingly implying that I am a racist? And is that okay? And did it become racist when I responded to his joke by escalating it further?

Seriously, reference to race is not racism. Even by some of the broader definitions given from the dictionaries up there, how are the jokes racism if Lincoln, Tash and Monique do not take offense? Or would you suppose you can speak on their behalf and somehow think that they are secretly offended and are hiding it from me? And why would Monique pretend to be fine about the Aussie jokes whilst being obviously sensitive to Korean references, even in a non-joking, we-are-just-interested way? Or do you seriously believe that us telling each other we have big noses mean we think the other person is truly inferior?

I wonder, Radiation, have you been subject to racism yourself? In my read of this thread, I don't remember seeing you say so, but are your attitudes based on personal experience, or a desire to stand up for the oppressed?

For the sake of openness, I'll say that I am a white middle-class male. The only racism I have experienced is on a fairly petty scale when I lived in Japan, and really never affected me much. A few snide comments, some old lady who refused to understand my excellent Japanese and kept telling me she did not speak English and a few bouncers who would not let me in bars/nightclubs in cities where there were American marines.

Have the same conversation you had but with a different person, who doesn't think your joke is funny and your butt is now in HR shortly before being unemployed.

But that is the point. I would not have done so.

It's a bit disingenuous to tell a story about making a racist joke, ask a complete stranger if that makes you a racist, and then object that the stranger has no right to judge you.

 Manchu wrote:
It's a bit disingenuous to tell a story about making a racist joke, ask a complete stranger if that makes you a racist, and then object that the stranger has no right to judge you.

It is not that he has no right to judge me, it is the attitude some people are showing through the whole thread that bothers me. He actually didn't specifically say anything about me. I say so myself in my own posts. People have been making judgements through the whole thread without context, then as soon as there is some context, no-one wants to say anything concrete.

I'd love to know more about the background of the most uptight people in this thread. Until recently, I lived in a primarily Bangladeshi area of East London, taught in a school with more than 60% black kids and less than 1% white british kids, now teach in a school that is 60% muslims of various race, and until my most recent girlfriend, I've never had a serious relationship with a white girl. The most serious were St Lucian, Indian and Japanese. With that background I just don't see race as an issue in any of my relationships or interactions. I just don't get why other people get so uptight about the most innocuous parts of racial identity.

I'd rather get worked up about the headteachers of my previous school. The current headteacher once complained directly to me that she doesn't like how the school is regarded as the "black school" in Hackney, and how the school needs more middle-class (read: white) kids. Since I left, others have told me she has said the same to them too. The headteacher before her made several offensive comments in my earshot when one of our pupils died in a motorbike crash about how "these people" are being hysterical about their grief and "they" react differently to grief, and so on, and even suggested that because the young man was black, he was a gang member. Now that is two people in positions of power with actual prejudice against black people. That actually bothers me.

Now if someone had argued that "harmless" racial (maybe racist) jokes foster a culture in which more serious prejudice is allowed to thrive, I'd consider that a debate worth having, but no-one has done so. I'd actually consider them wrong, and argue that making a joke out of race makes it something to worry about less, not more, but I'd at least be willing to listen to some arguments and be open to being convinced. People here are often just quoting dictionary definitions and playing word-games.

You know what really grinds my gears?

People who create straw men just so they can have something to bitch about on forums.

How the hell did this thread make it to 7 pages?

The power of Bacon.

I don't think that would classify as racism actually.
You don't actually have anything against people that you talk about based on their race, you only mean it in a non-offensive way.
Just be careful of context and point of view when you joke around.

Racism is not just a matter of intention. Most people aren't racist if by racism we mean burning crosses in yards or that sort of thing. Unfortunately, racism (at least here in the US) is more often about 'micro-aggression' and a lot of times this can seem invisible to people who are not regularly discriminated against because of their race.

 Radiation wrote:
You go to a bar or a party or club.
You tell your favorite racist joke.
You say, "by the way, l'm not really racist."

You take a girl on a date, and tell her your favorite racist joke. You say, "but I'm not racist."

You're standing in line at the grocery store and tell the person next to you your favorite racist joke. "But I'm not racist."

You're out on the street at night and you see a group of drunk young people. You tell them your favorite racist joke. You remind them you're not racist.

You're at work and there is about to be a meeting. You pass the time telling your favorite racist joke. You remind your co-workers, "I'm not racist."

You are a racist in any of those situations. If you don't understand that, than you are a dumb racist.

Nobody but your mommy cares about the special snowflake that is your inner most soul and your most cherished feelings and thoughts. Society will judge you on your behavior. Your words and actions are what others see you as. Tell your favorite racist joke and say your not a racist. You're a coward racist and a hypocrite.

So if they're all racists, can I consider you an imbecile? You've spelled then, you're, and a lot of other words wrong. That or you know, don't judge a book by its cover thing

 Frazzled wrote:
The power of Bacon.

I bet muslims and jews find that offensive. Therefore you are a bigot.. am i right? am i right? /jk

There's some amazing hostility in this thread, and its not about guns or religion. Well done!

dereksatkinson wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
The power of Bacon.

I bet muslims and jews find that offensive. Therefore you are a bigot.. am i right? am i right? /jk

This is the internet. Everything's offensive, and everyone's a bigot.

dereksatkinson wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
The power of Bacon.

I bet muslims and jews find that offensive. Therefore you are a bigot.. am i right? am i right? /jk

By the standards of some in this thread...yes.

Apparently saying or doing anything that others merely perceive to be offensive means you're racist.

dereksatkinson wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
The power of Bacon.

I bet muslims and jews find that offensive. Therefore you are a bigot.. am i right? am i right? /jk

When my mere presence is generally viewed as offensive by a majority of humanity, this has no effect on me.
I'm an American! Hurr!

It seems we're pretty much done here now.