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 Jihadin wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Racism easily starts with a joke

Only if the person making the joke actually thinks other races are inferior.

Who says they do not already think that way.

Who says they do?

To consider someone racist simply because they told a joke is projection. Mere jokes are not sufficent evidence either way to judge a person's opinions on race.

If you start cracking racial jokes if I just met you or everytime I see you, I don't care if you think you're racist or not, I'm going to stay away from you as much as possible and then I'm gonna laugh when you complain about being labeled racist by society/others. If it walks and talks like a duck.

I'm in my midthirties and have met plenty of these people in the workplace. All they do is talk about race and then say, "but I'm not racist." I just say, you sound like it, and go about my day. If it's outside of work and I am by myself or talkin with friends/females , forget about it. Take a hike, I have absolutely no interest in listening to some idiot crack racial jokes all day. Thats the least interesting thing I can think of to waste my time listening too. But good luck with that if you think its fine.

 Radiation wrote:
If you start cracking racial jokes if I just met you or everytime I see you, I don't care if you think you're racist or not, I'm going to stay away from you as much as possible and then I'm gonna laugh when you complain about being labeled racist by society/others. If it walks and talks like a duck.

I'm in my midthirties and have met plenty of these people in the workplace. All they do is talk about race and then say, "but I'm not racist." I just say, you sound like it, and go about my day. If it's outside of work and I am by myself or talkin with friends/females , forget about it. Take a hike, I have absolutely no interest in listening to some idiot crack racial jokes all day. Thats the least interesting thing I can think of to waste my time listening too. But good luck with that if you think its fine.

If they have an unhealthy obsession with race and keep on talking about it frequently, that may be indicative of some warped beliefs.

Simply making the odd joke now and then is not sufficient evidence.

Edit:

Also, it depends on context. If you continue making racial jokes in the presence of a person(s) when you KNOW it makes them uncomfortable and offends them, then that may well be bullying.

Act like a racist, get labeled a racist. Don't want people to judge you a racist, don't make racist jokes.

Are we now changing definitions of things so that we can pretend stuff isn't bad anymore?

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Racism easily starts with a joke

Only if the person making the joke actually thinks other races are inferior.

Who says they do not already think that way.

Who says they do?

To consider someone racist simply because they told a joke is projection. Mere jokes are not sufficent evidence either way to judge a person's opinions on race.

Sorry. Hate to tell it. Someone who cracks a racist joke in my presence I am going to avoid like Radiation says. If someone though who does tell racist jokes in public and those who do not put the individual in check are pretty much condoning it.

Edit

A lack of "respect" is to blame

Knowing when and where to make any kind of joke is a sign of consideration and thoughtfulness. Someone you just randomly meet that just whips out racial or sexist jokes to strangers is neither. People that know each other and have a history can do a lot of things that strangers, or even simply coworkers cannot. It is part of becoming an adult I suppose. Children will spout off just about anything at anytime, as you grow up one should know better. Context and timing are generally key components.

I don't really tell these jokes but I usually find that the ethnicity et al. of the joke usually know them better. Black people know the best black jokes, Jews tell the best Jewish jokes and so on. Most of the Lawyers I know have great Lawyer jokes. Racists tend to be pretty bad at it and the jokes are just demeaning, not funny.

 d-usa wrote:
Act like a racist, get labeled a racist. Don't want people to judge you a racist, don't make racist jokes.

Are we now changing definitions of things so that we can pretend stuff isn't bad anymore?

No, we're insisting on ACTUALLY USING DEFINITIONS CORRECTLY. It is YOU who is not using the term correctly.

Oxford Dictionary wrote: 1The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:

if you don't believe other races are inferior, YOU'RE NOT A RACIST.

That would mean the individual has no respect for ethnicity

 Jihadin wrote:
That would mean the individual has no respect for ethnicity

How does not believing race makes one inferior/superior make one have no respect for ethnicity? One can understand that people have had different elements of history as well as shared history without feeling superior/inferior. I can recognize a black man as being black without assigning him as being better or worse that me based on that criteria.

This is how it goes with these people. They will argue in circles forever. They think it should be okay to tell racist jokes and not be judged racist. Like they are gonna change peoples minds. You told a racist joke, get judged. Thats it, you can't take it back. You can always decide to change, but you can't erase what you said and what people heard. And you will be judged by the people around you for it.

How varied are racist jokes. Because racial joke can cover both Race and Ethnicity at the same time.


Edit

Going to use one example
Spear Chucker from MASH

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Act like a racist, get labeled a racist. Don't want people to judge you a racist, don't make racist jokes.

Are we now changing definitions of things so that we can pretend stuff isn't bad anymore?

No, we're insisting on ACTUALLY USING DEFINITIONS CORRECTLY. It is YOU who is not using the term correctly.

Oxford Dictionary wrote: 1The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:

if you don't believe other races are inferior, YOU'RE NOT A RACIST.

If you act like a racist, people will treat you like a racist. That includes racist jokes.

It doesn't matter what definition you quite. It doesn't matter what your feelings are. It doesn't matter if you are buddy buddy with lots of minorities.

Act like a racist, people will treat you like a racist.

 Radiation wrote:
This is how it goes with these people. They will argue in circles forever. They think it should be okay to tell racist jokes and not be judged racist. Like they are gonna change peoples minds. You told a racist joke, get judged. Thats it, you can't take it back. You can always decide to change, but you can't erase what you said and what people heard. And you will be judged by the people around you for it.

Telling a so called "racist joke" doesn't make you a racist.

Somebody else perceiving what you say to be racist, does not make you a racist.

What DOES make you a racist, is believing other races to be INFERIOR. It depends entirely on what YOU believe.

Telling a joke might be rude and disrespectful, but it is only racist if you BELIEVE that race to be racially inferior.

Racism is a state of mind, not an action. Actions (jokes, comments, remarks) might be indicative of racism, and you might infer what a person believes based on what they say, but they are only racist if they actually BELIEVE other races are inferior.

Dictionaries. USE THEM.

1The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:

 Jihadin wrote:

Going to use one example
Spear Chucker from MASH

The actor was in on the joke, and it was also mocking the racism of the 50's. He was also a surgeon and an athlete, so it was playing on stereotypes not making one.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Radiation wrote:
This is how it goes with these people. They will argue in circles forever. They think it should be okay to tell racist jokes and not be judged racist. Like they are gonna change peoples minds. You told a racist joke, get judged. Thats it, you can't take it back. You can always decide to change, but you can't erase what you said and what people heard. And you will be judged by the people around you for it.

Telling a so called "racist joke" doesn't make you a racist.

Somebody else perceiving what you say to be racist, does not make you a racist.

What DOES make you a racist, is believing other races to be INFERIOR. It depends entirely on what YOU believe.

Telling a joke might be rude and disrespectful, but it is only racist if you BELIEVE that race to be racially inferior.

Racism is a state of mind, not an action. Actions (jokes, comments, remarks) might be indicative of racism, and you might infer what a person believes based on what they say, but they are only racist if they actually BELIEVE other races are inferior.

Dictionaries. USE THEM.

1The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:

Whatever turns you purple. Its pretty simple though. Tell racist jokes, prepare to be judged a racist by others. Argue all you want about it afterwards. You have still been judged a racist for it. You can always change. Or keep telling your jokes until you find someone willing to listen to them. But expecting not to be judged for it is living in fantasy land. We all judge each other for so much less. Telling racist jokes is a huge personality indicator and most people, myself included, will consider it a red flag

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Radiation wrote:
This is how it goes with these people. They will argue in circles forever. They think it should be okay to tell racist jokes and not be judged racist. Like they are gonna change peoples minds. You told a racist joke, get judged. Thats it, you can't take it back. You can always decide to change, but you can't erase what you said and what people heard. And you will be judged by the people around you for it.

Telling a so called "racist joke" doesn't make you a racist.
Somebody else perceiving what you say to be racist, does not make you a racist.

What DOES make you a racist, is believing other races to be INFERIOR. It depends entirely on what YOU believe.

Telling a joke might be rude and disrespectful, but it is only racist if you BELIEVE that race to be racially inferior.

Racism is a state of mind,

I hope that makes you feel warm and cuddly because that is all you have while everybody treats you like a racist when you act like one.

Dictionaries. USE THEM.

1The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:

Dictionary.com: racism: hatred or intolerance of another race or other races. (aka: making jokes about people based on their race = intolerance of their race)

Merrian-Webster: poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race (aka: making jokes about people = poor treatment of them) - racial prejudice or discrimination (aka: telling jokes about people based on a prejudice)

Cambridge: the belief that some races are better than others (aka: racist jokes are funny because your race wouldn't have done the same thing because they are better)

Dictionaries. USE THEM.

 Aesop the God Awful wrote:
"Casual racist" here, and making no apologies.

Seriously, people who say they're not casual racist (as per the definition given in this thread) are either liars or unsociable. And one does not exclude the other.

Bigots, not racists. All racists are bigots. Not all bigots are racists.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:

Going to use one example
Spear Chucker from MASH

The actor was in on the joke, and it was also mocking the racism of the 50's. He was also a surgeon and an athlete, so it was playing on stereotypes not making one.

Was the audience though.

Edit

So MASH falls into a racist column in today's "perception"

 d-usa wrote:
I hope that makes you feel warm and cuddly because that is all you have while everybody treats you like a racist when you act like one.

Why do you have to make this personal? What the feth makes you think I'm acting racist here? I'm simply disagreeing with you all because I think your definition of racism is far too broad.

I don't remember the last time I myself made a racial joke. The closest I got was reposting an email about Irish jokes (which were really just general wordplay jokes applicable to anybody and not specific to Irish people) sent to me by my Irish Dad.


Could you please argue without resorting to Ad Hominem and labeling ME a racist?

Putting an argument in a larger font does not make it more compelling.

 Ouze wrote:
Putting an argument in a larger font does not make it more compelling.

Don't ignore it then and I won't feel the need to emphasize it.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Putting an argument in a larger font does not make it more compelling.

Don't ignore it then and I won't feel the need to emphasize it.

Since that is your advise.

If you act like a racist, regardless of your motivation for doing so, regardless of it being for the LULZ, regardless of it being just a joke, regardless of it being to a deep seeded sense of racial superiority, regardless of any reason whatsoever, people will treat you like a racist.

It's not rocket science, do racist things and people will treat you like a racist, even if you feel like you are not one.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Telling a so called "racist joke" doesn't make you a racist.]

No, but I'm certainly going to assume anyone who I don't know well who thinks it's appropriate to tell me one is, so I guess... play stupid games, win stupid prizes?

The biggest racism problem we have is when someone see's it as them and us.

Soon as you say or think them and us you are racist and your a problem, which sets us all back.

I see this alot everywhere but this Ferguson thing is really showing it, it is a them or us mentality rather then trying to fix a problem.

You can see difference between races and all that which they are there and who cares but when you see the world as them and us....

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
I hope that makes you feel warm and cuddly because that is all you have while everybody treats you like a racist when you act like one.

Why do you have to make this personal? What the feth makes you think I'm acting racist here? I'm simply disagreeing with you all because I think your definition of racism is far too broad.

I'm not saying that you are acting racist in this thread.

I'm saying that your excuse of "I'm not racist even if I act like a racist because it's not my actions that matter but whatever feelings I have deep down inside of me which are invisible to anyone else but me that define me" is pretty damn silly and doesn't work.

 d-usa wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
I hope that makes you feel warm and cuddly because that is all you have while everybody treats you like a racist when you act like one.

Why do you have to make this personal? What the feth makes you think I'm acting racist here? I'm simply disagreeing with you all because I think your definition of racism is far too broad.

I'm not saying that you are acting racist in this thread.

I'm saying that your excuse of "People are not racist even if they act like a racist because it's not their actions that matter but whatever feelings they have deep down inside of them which are invisible to anyone else but them that define them" is pretty damn silly and doesn't work.

No, you're just calling me a racist outright.

You're personalizing your argument to me and attaching the label of "racist" to me specifically apparently thinking that I'm making this argument in defense of my own actions, when in fact I'm defending the actions of others, NOT my own. Holding an opinion about a certain behavior or action does not mean you yourself are guilty of that behaviour or action. Saying "jokes about race aren't a big deal" does not automatically mean that you yourself tell those jokes.

The only example you will find of me making a racial joke on this forum was my Irish thread (in which I simply reposted jokes sent to me by my Dad), and those jokes were more general wordplay jokes, vague and not specific to any race or ethnicity. I simply neglected to edit it to remove the references to Ireland). Funnily enough, the people in that thread complaining weren't actually Irish, the Irish posters found the jokes funny.

In fact, just refer to that thread from now on, we're having the exact same argument.

And the argument that "casual racism" now means "I told a racist joke but I'm totes not racist guys" from the OP, which is just an amazing delusion of what "casual racism" refers to.

 d-usa wrote:


It doesn't matter what definition you quite. It doesn't matter what your feelings are. It doesn't matter if you are buddy buddy with lots of minorities.

I didnt realize the world was so black and white.

I need a MOD to PM please before I go further down the rabbit hole with this topic

Any MOD's having an eagle eye on this thread?

 d-usa wrote:

If you act like a racist, people will treat you like a racist. That includes racist jokes.

It doesn't matter what definition you quite. It doesn't matter what your feelings are. It doesn't matter if you are buddy buddy with lots of minorities.

Act like a racist, people will treat you like a racist.

Right, so apparently racism boils down to "making a joke". Its good we've established just how broad and all encompassing your definition of racism is.

I on the other hand think that actual racists do and say things that are a hell of a lot worse than trivial innocuous jokes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jihadin wrote:
I need a MOD to PM please before I go further down the rabbit hole with this topic

Any MOD's having an eagle eye on this thread?

Why? Nobody in this thread is actually racist, or made racist remarks. We're arguing about definitions.

This is Thought Crime in action. Orwell would be face palming.