ImAGeek wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:
The treason i am referring to is the empire guiliman tried to set up and sangunius helped with. This was pre battle of terra so the emperor was still functioning. Granted they were cut off from terra by warp storms. I consider it a treasonous act because they basically gave up on trying to connect with the emperor. i used the situation and the description I did to illustrate the choices that had to be made and that subjective view points could be made to describe those actions in a variety of ways. And, despite certain intractabilities in the conversation, Dorn's track record of stoicism , implacability, and reliably non emotional response, with the exception of a reaction to a hand full of highly charged, difficult and emotional situations, while could be construed as losing his cool when he needed it most, also could be shown as reasonable deviations from an established behavior. i don't think anyone's opinions are going to be changed, but at least we should respect each other's abilities to interpret a highly variable and inconsistent fluff. the intentional degree of subjectivness in the BL books is to let people come to their own conclusions. we should respect that, and keep things civil.

Which BL book is that from?

Unremembered Empire.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:
The treason i am referring to is the empire guiliman tried to set up and sangunius helped with. This was pre battle of terra so the emperor was still functioning. Granted they were cut off from terra by warp storms. I consider it a treasonous act because they basically gave up on trying to connect with the emperor. i used the situation and the description I did to illustrate the choices that had to be made and that subjective view points could be made to describe those actions in a variety of ways. And, despite certain intractabilities in the conversation, Dorn's track record of stoicism , implacability, and reliably non emotional response, with the exception of a reaction to a hand full of highly charged, difficult and emotional situations, while could be construed as losing his cool when he needed it most, also could be shown as reasonable deviations from an established behavior. i don't think anyone's opinions are going to be changed, but at least we should respect each other's abilities to interpret a highly variable and inconsistent fluff. the intentional degree of subjectivness in the BL books is to let people come to their own conclusions. we should respect that, and keep things civil.

Which BL book is that from?

Unremembered Empire.

Isn't that the one where Curze goes toe to toe with both Guilliman and the Lion? At the same time?

 ImAGeek wrote:
Yeah Curze was written terribly in that book for some reason.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
Yeah Curze was written terribly in that book for some reason.

If by "terrible" you mean "He made the loyalists look bad in comparison," then sure.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
Yeah Curze was written terribly in that book for some reason.

If by "terrible" you mean "He made the loyalists look bad in comparison," then sure.

I mean terrible as in written like a one dimensional cartoon villain, but whatever.

 Shidank wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
Yeah Curze was written terribly in that book for some reason.

If by "terrible" you mean "He made the loyalists look bad in comparison," then sure.

I mean terrible as in written like a one dimensional cartoon villain, but whatever.

There was virtually no effort put into any primarch, save Guilliman, in that book. Curze was an OP, mustache-twirling fiend. The laughable antics of Mr. Dastardly there hardly reflect on the actual character portrayed everywhere else in universe.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
You have to admit, it doesn't make sense. In the first fight between Lion and Curze, they both come off a cropper. The second, Curze is put into a coma. Then in a fight with two Primarchs, one that has between him before, he manages to hold his own and then nearly blow them up. It doesn't seem to sit right. You could put this down to Curze transformation I guess, well I believe there to be some form of transformation, one which started in Vulkan Lives. It's mentioned that Curze has become a thing of shadow and how his mouth opens insanely wide, stuff like that. I believe that by the time of Unremembered Empire Curze has truly begun to be corrupted by Chaos due to his actions. Could be an explanation of his improved capability.

But then we have Polux who does the same amount of damage as two Primarchs. So Polux could hold his own against Lion and Guilliman as well and then maybe beat Curze in a 1v1.

 Shidank wrote:


Unremembered Empire painted Curze in a bad light that heavily skewed the perception of the character. I enjoyed the weird twists in Vulkan Lives, as you were never sure what was real and what was Vulkan's impending madness.

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Shidank wrote:


Unremembered Empire painted Curze in a bad light that heavily skewed the perception of the character. I enjoyed the weird twists in Vulkan Lives, as you were never sure what was real and what was Vulkan's impending madness.

Depends on your perspective though doesn't it. The character here isn't much different from that in Vulkan Lives, or Savage Weapons or Prince of Crows or any other tale featuring Curze.

I was just putting forth a possible explanation, one that would fit with the eventual monster who dies at the hands of M'shen in the Screaming Gallery on Tsagualsa.

 Shidank wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Shidank wrote:


Unremembered Empire painted Curze in a bad light that heavily skewed the perception of the character. I enjoyed the weird twists in Vulkan Lives, as you were never sure what was real and what was Vulkan's impending madness.

Depends on your perspective though doesn't it. The character here isn't much different from that in Vulkan Lives, or Savage Weapons or Prince of Crows or any other tale featuring Curze.

I was just putting forth a possible explanation, one that would fit with the eventual monster who dies at the hands of M'shen in the Screaming Gallery on Tsagualsa.

Since I didn't disagree with you, I'm not sure what you're asking.

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Shidank wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Shidank wrote:


Unremembered Empire painted Curze in a bad light that heavily skewed the perception of the character. I enjoyed the weird twists in Vulkan Lives, as you were never sure what was real and what was Vulkan's impending madness.

Depends on your perspective though doesn't it. The character here isn't much different from that in Vulkan Lives, or Savage Weapons or Prince of Crows or any other tale featuring Curze.

I was just putting forth a possible explanation, one that would fit with the eventual monster who dies at the hands of M'shen in the Screaming Gallery on Tsagualsa.

Since I didn't disagree with you, I'm not sure what you're asking.

Sorry, I wasn't sure what you were getting at so emphasized my point.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
You have to admit, it doesn't make sense. In the first fight between Lion and Curze, they both come off a cropper. The second, Curze is put into a coma. Then in a fight with two Primarchs, one that has between him before, he manages to hold his own and then nearly blow them up. It doesn't seem to sit right. You could put this down to Curze transformation I guess, well I believe there to be some form of transformation, one which started in Vulkan Lives. It's mentioned that Curze has become a thing of shadow and how his mouth opens insanely wide, stuff like that. I believe that by the time of Unremembered Empire Curze has truly begun to be corrupted by Chaos due to his actions. Could be an explanation of his improved capability.

But then we have Polux who does the same amount of damage as two Primarchs. So Polux could hold his own against Lion and Guilliman as well and then maybe beat Curze in a 1v1.