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**MarkDawg**

I have Salvation for all 40k Rage quitters.

This game has as rich of a background as 40K looks just as good or better on the table it's played at 28mm. The game is balanced and have a slick innovative rules system. It's also way cheaper than 40k for the price of one 1850 list you could be 3 huge kick ass armies! The creators of this game are Rick Priestly Alessio Cavatore. Fellas I give you

BOLT ACTION

**jreilly89**

MarkDawg wrote:

Spoiler:

I have Salvation for all 40k Rage quitters.

This game has as rich of a background as 40K looks just as good or better on the table it's played at 28mm. The game is balanced and have a slick innovative rules system. It's also way cheaper than 40k for the price of one 1850 list you could be 3 huge kick ass armies! The creators of this game are Rick Priestly Alessio Cavatore. Fellas I give you

BOLT ACTION

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the models are great, the game is balanced and its cheap and fun, but rich background? Please. If there's one thing a lot of people know about 40k, even if they quit, it's that they like the lore. That's one of the biggest draws to 40k is the amount of background material. Hell, look at the amount of sales Black Library books have and the Horus Heresy. Lore is one of 40k's strongest points.

**Mr Morden**

Quite a few of our club now play BA - its not bad - but has some issues and dodgy/odd rules.................

**MarkDawg**

Are you saying WW2 has no comparable background to 40K?

**ImAGeek**

jreilly89 wrote:
MarkDawg wrote:

Spoiler:

I have Salvation for all 40k Rage quitters.

This game has as rich of a background as 40K looks just as good or better on the table it's played at 28mm. The game is balanced and have a slick innovative rules system. It's also way cheaper than 40k for the price of one 1850 list you could be 3 huge kick ass armies! The creators of this game are Rick Priestly Alessio Cavatore. Fellas I give you

BOLT ACTION

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the models are great, the game is balanced and its cheap and fun, but rich background? Please. If there's one thing a lot of people know about 40k, even if they quit, it's that they like the lore. That's one of the biggest draws to 40k is the amount of background material. Hell, look at the amount of sales Black Library books have and the Horus Heresy. Lore is one of 40k's strongest points.

Eh. The lore these days is going pretty downhill too. I like the setting but I don't know how much I like the stuff they're putting out. I loved the HH series but the latest offerings have been slipping quite a bit too. And Bolt Action does have a rich background because, well, it's real. It's as rich as it possibly can be considering its based off of historical events. And the world wars are very interesting, so I'd say it is pretty rich.

**jreilly89**

MarkDawg wrote:
Are you saying WW2 has no comparable background to 40K?

I'm saying 40k is better, in my opinion. AFAIK, WW2 didn't have the Warp, daemonic possession, and giant intergalactic wars or even bolters. So yes, I'm saying WW2 is not comparable to 40k.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ImAGeek wrote:
jreilly89 wrote:
MarkDawg wrote:

Spoiler:

I have Salvation for all 40k Rage quitters.

This game has as rich of a background as 40K looks just as good or better on the table it's played at 28mm. The game is balanced and have a slick innovative rules system. It's also way cheaper than 40k for the price of one 1850 list you could be 3 huge kick ass armies! The creators of this game are Rick Priestly Alessio Cavatore. Fellas I give you

BOLT ACTION

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the models are great, the game is balanced and its cheap and fun, but rich background? Please. If there's one thing a lot of people know about 40k, even if they quit, it's that they like the lore. That's one of the biggest draws to 40k is the amount of background material. Hell, look at the amount of sales Black Library books have and the Horus Heresy. Lore is one of 40k's strongest points.

Eh. The lore these days is going pretty downhill too. I like the setting but I don't know how much I like the stuff they're putting out. I loved the HH series but the latest offerings have been slipping quite a bit too. And Bolt Action does have a rich background because, well, it's real. It's as rich as it possibly can be considering its based off of historical events. And the world wars are very interesting, so I'd say it is pretty rich.

I think WW2 is fascinating in its own way, but for a tabletop game, I think the setting in 40k is much more exciting. Short of Hitler's secret projects, WW2 has a disappointing amount of daemonic possession.

**MWHistorian**

jreilly89 wrote:
MarkDawg wrote:
Are you saying WW2 has no comparable background to 40K?

I'm saying 40k is better, in my opinion. AFAIK, WW2 didn't have the Warp, daemonic possession, and giant intergalactic wars or even bolters. So yes, I'm saying WW2 is not comparable to 40k.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ImAGeek wrote:
jreilly89 wrote:
MarkDawg wrote:

Spoiler:

I have Salvation for all 40k Rage quitters.

This game has as rich of a background as 40K looks just as good or better on the table it's played at 28mm. The game is balanced and have a slick innovative rules system. It's also way cheaper than 40k for the price of one 1850 list you could be 3 huge kick ass armies! The creators of this game are Rick Priestly Alessio Cavatore. Fellas I give you

BOLT ACTION

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the models are great, the game is balanced and its cheap and fun, but rich background? Please. If there's one thing a lot of people know about 40k, even if they quit, it's that they like the lore. That's one of the biggest draws to 40k is the amount of background material. Hell, look at the amount of sales Black Library books have and the Horus Heresy. Lore is one of 40k's strongest points.

Eh. The lore these days is going pretty downhill too. I like the setting but I don't know how much I like the stuff they're putting out. I loved the HH series but the latest offerings have been slipping quite a bit too. And Bolt Action does have a rich background because, well, it's real. It's as rich as it possibly can be considering its based off of historical events. And the world wars are very interesting, so I'd say it is pretty rich.

I think WW2 is fascinating in its own way, but for a tabletop game, I think the setting in 40k is much more exciting. Short of Hitler's secret projects, WW2 has a disappointing amount of daemonic possession.

So...it's not 40k. That's your argument.

**Torga_DW**

jreilly89 wrote:
MarkDawg wrote:

Spoiler:

I have Salvation for all 40k Rage quitters.

This game has as rich of a background as 40K looks just as good or better on the table it's played at 28mm. The game is balanced and have a slick innovative rules system. It's also way cheaper than 40k for the price of one 1850 list you could be 3 huge kick ass armies! The creators of this game are Rick Priestly Alessio Cavatore. Fellas I give you

BOLT ACTION

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the models are great, the game is balanced and its cheap and fun, but rich background? Please. If there's one thing a lot of people know about 40k, even if they quit, it's that they like the lore. That's one of the biggest draws to 40k is the amount of background material. Hell, look at the amount of sales Black Library books have and the Horus Heresy. Lore is one of 40k's strongest points.

Agreed. 40k has a rich, diverse and most importantly *believable* background. The fluff for bolt action looks like neither of those. I mean really, what could it possibly be about and how significant could that event be to people?

**MWHistorian**

WWII is so unbelievable. The German villains are so over the top mustache twirling evil that they even have skulls on their uniforms. C'mon! And then there's the battle of Britain, like we're supposed to believe that a rag tag band of pilots held off the entire Luftwaffa just to the point of breaking and all of a sudden Germany goes and attacks their biggest ally? It makes no friggin' sense.
And don't get me started on the ending. (spoilers) But the do gooder Americans suddenly come up with a super weapon that blows up entire cities. Talk about a Dues Ex Machina.

**Ashiraya**

Yeah, poorly written. Too try-hard.

**Akiasura**

MWHistorian wrote:
WWII is so unbelievable. The German villains are so over the top mustache twirling evil that they even have skulls on their uniforms. C'mon! And then there's the battle of Britain, like we're supposed to believe that a rag tag band of pilots held off the entire Luftwaffa just to the point of breaking and all of a sudden Germany goes and attacks their biggest ally? It makes no friggin' sense.
And don't get me started on the ending. (spoilers) But the do gooder Americans suddenly come up with a super weapon that blows up entire cities. Talk about a Dues Ex Machina.

Seriously.
Do-gooder americans?
This is the year 2015, get with the program. Where is my grimdark!?

**liquidjoshi**

Ashiraya wrote:
Yeah, poorly written. Too try-hard.

Churchil was just a Marty Stu really

**greyknight12**

MWHistorian wrote:
Next financial report should be interesting, like they akways are. I wonder how much their sales will drop this time.

I'm actually wondering about this too, because I personally had quite a few purchases planned for this year (mainly FW) that I'm no longer going to be making. If people don't play the game they aren't going to buy nearly the volume of models; a lot of people seem focused on the Eldar sales, but what happens when all the DA & BA players stop buying stuff? Even someone who keeps their army "just in case" isn't going to buying those one-off units to make their lists more competitive anymore.

**jreilly89**

Torga_DW wrote:
jreilly89 wrote:
MarkDawg wrote:

Spoiler:

I have Salvation for all 40k Rage quitters.

This game has as rich of a background as 40K looks just as good or better on the table it's played at 28mm. The game is balanced and have a slick innovative rules system. It's also way cheaper than 40k for the price of one 1850 list you could be 3 huge kick ass armies! The creators of this game are Rick Priestly Alessio Cavatore. Fellas I give you

BOLT ACTION

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the models are great, the game is balanced and its cheap and fun, but rich background? Please. If there's one thing a lot of people know about 40k, even if they quit, it's that they like the lore. That's one of the biggest draws to 40k is the amount of background material. Hell, look at the amount of sales Black Library books have and the Horus Heresy. Lore is one of 40k's strongest points.

Agreed. 40k has a rich, diverse and most importantly *believable* background. The fluff for bolt action looks like neither of those. I mean really, what could it possibly be about and how significant could that event be to people?

Why does it have to be "believable"? Many of the most popular series (Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, etc.) are completely unbelievable. I'm sorry I'd rather go read interesting 40k fluff than boring WW2 fluff. I could go out right now, get signed up, and be a soldier. I wouldn't be a WW2 soldier, but I'd be close. What are the odds I could be a Space Marine or a Daemon of Chaos?

**BrotherGecko**

About the same as you being a soldier I'd reckon.

Seriously WW2 has more to go with in the first day then all 20+ years of 40k fluff.

**Iapedus**

jreilly89 wrote:
I'm sorry I'd rather go read interesting 40k fluff than boring WW2 fluff.

I understand your point, and I am all for Sci-Fi Fantasy and Escapism, etc. But seriously, I think you need to go away and read some WW2 history / biographies or even just watch the World at War series, then come back and revise this statement. It is absurd.

Just to get you going

Spoiler:

Admittedly a bit more challenging that your average GW dex, but I'm sure you can manage it

**Stevey E**

BA is a bad game. unbalanced.

**jreilly89**

Iapedus wrote:
jreilly89 wrote:
I'm sorry I'd rather go read interesting 40k fluff than boring WW2 fluff.
I understand your point, and I am all for Sci-Fi Fantasy and Escapism, etc. But seriously, I think you need to go away and read some WW2 history / biographies or even just watch the World at War series, then come back and revise this statement. It is absurd.

I love Band of Brothers and WW2 is fascinating, but I don't think it makes a good tabletop game. There's plenty more exciting settings. Heck, I'd even take X-Wing or Infinity over WW2 games.

**mugginns**

Dismissing it simply because it doesn't have space orcs, space elves, and space knights is a bummer. The mechanics in BA are refreshing with alternating activations, supressing fire, real morale, and almost no brokenness since most everyone is a human with a gun.

Also, let's not pretend 40k is the pinnacle of literature. It has 20 years of flip flops, mysogyny, and terrible tropes it has been built on.

**Toofast**

mugginns wrote:
Dismissing it simply because it doesn't have space orcs, space elves, and space knights is a bummer. The mechanics in BA are refreshing with alternating activations, supressing fire, real morale, and almost no brokenness since most everyone is a human with a gun.

Also, let's not pretend 40k is the pinnacle of literature. It has 20 years of flip flops, mysogyny, and terrible tropes it has been built on.

Most everyone being a human with a gun is what makes guard the most boring army in 40k. I can't imagine getting into a game where everyone is IG except less tanks and no cool looking flyer. Zzzzzz...

**mugginns**

Toofast wrote:
mugginns wrote:
Dismissing it simply because it doesn't have space orcs, space elves, and space knights is a bummer. The mechanics in BA are refreshing with alternating activations, supressing fire, real morale, and almost no brokenness since most everyone is a human with a gun.

Also, let's not pretend 40k is the pinnacle of literature. It has 20 years of flip flops, mysogyny, and terrible tropes it has been built on.

Most everyone being a human with a gun is what makes guard the most boring army in 40k. I can't imagine getting into a game where everyone is IG except less tanks and no cool looking flyer. Zzzzzz...

Fewer $60 tanks and $85 flyers

**MarkDawg**

jreilly89 wrote:
Iapedus wrote:
jreilly89 wrote:
I'm sorry I'd rather go read interesting 40k fluff than boring WW2 fluff.
I understand your point, and I am all for Sci-Fi Fantasy and Escapism, etc. But seriously, I think you need to go away and read some WW2 history / biographies or even just watch the World at War series, then come back and revise this statement. It is absurd.

I love Band of Brothers and WW2 is fascinating, but I don't think it makes a good tabletop game. There's plenty more exciting settings. Heck, I'd even take X-Wing or Infinity over WW2 games.

Bolt Action as far as game mechanics go is light years ahead of 40k it's a way better game rules wise without a doubt. So Rage quitters Play some Bolt Action you wont be sorry you did!

**Toofast**

MarkDawg wrote:
jreilly89 wrote:
Iapedus wrote:
jreilly89 wrote:
I'm sorry I'd rather go read interesting 40k fluff than boring WW2 fluff.
I understand your point, and I am all for Sci-Fi Fantasy and Escapism, etc. But seriously, I think you need to go away and read some WW2 history / biographies or even just watch the World at War series, then come back and revise this statement. It is absurd.

I love Band of Brothers and WW2 is fascinating, but I don't think it makes a good tabletop game. There's plenty more exciting settings. Heck, I'd even take X-Wing or Infinity over WW2 games.

Bolt Action as far as game mechanics go is light years ahead of 40k it's a way better game rules wise without a doubt. So Rage quitters Play some Bolt Action you wont be sorry you did!

Can I play bolt action with grav tanks and wraithknights?

**Dakkamite**

Another vote for Bolt Action. Aside from True Line of Sight, which Alessio insists on inserting into every game he makes, its absolutely fantastic.

**jreilly89**

MarkDawg wrote:
jreilly89 wrote:
Iapedus wrote:
jreilly89 wrote:
I'm sorry I'd rather go read interesting 40k fluff than boring WW2 fluff.
I understand your point, and I am all for Sci-Fi Fantasy and Escapism, etc. But seriously, I think you need to go away and read some WW2 history / biographies or even just watch the World at War series, then come back and revise this statement. It is absurd.

I love Band of Brothers and WW2 is fascinating, but I don't think it makes a good tabletop game. There's plenty more exciting settings. Heck, I'd even take X-Wing or Infinity over WW2 games.

Bolt Action as far as game mechanics go is light years ahead of 40k it's a way better game rules wise without a doubt. So Rage quitters Play some Bolt Action you wont be sorry you did!

Oh there is no question about that

I'm sure its lightyears ahead of 40k. It's just for my money I prefer 40k, but I'm sure the rules are WAY better than 40k's complex gak

**Ejderhare**

Been looking at Bolt action before.. Anyone have any experience with how it compares to Flames of War? which is the better game? (I know flames of war uses smaller minis)

**Fenrir Kitsune**

Toofast wrote:
MarkDawg wrote:
jreilly89 wrote:
Iapedus wrote:
jreilly89 wrote:
I'm sorry I'd rather go read interesting 40k fluff than boring WW2 fluff.
I understand your point, and I am all for Sci-Fi Fantasy and Escapism, etc. But seriously, I think you need to go away and read some WW2 history / biographies or even just watch the World at War series, then come back and revise this statement. It is absurd.

I love Band of Brothers and WW2 is fascinating, but I don't think it makes a good tabletop game. There's plenty more exciting settings. Heck, I'd even take X-Wing or Infinity over WW2 games.

Bolt Action as far as game mechanics go is light years ahead of 40k it's a way better game rules wise without a doubt. So Rage quitters Play some Bolt Action you wont be sorry you did!

Can I play bolt action with grav tanks and wraithknights?

Yes, its possible. We played with the dust mega walkers.

**aprilmanha**

While I have not played w40K in a couple of months now, and have been branching out into other games for the last couple of years, I can't bring myself to get into Bolt Action.

I dunno, am I being a bit silly for feeling that due to the setting, the whole this is a bit to "real" and feel that I am slightly belittling the massive human tragedy that the war was by playing it out as a table top game?

Maybe I'm thinking about it to much, but I do find it easier to enjoy the daft and OTT styles of w40K fluff or the closer and more human (though still magically fantastical) themes of Warmachine.

**Mr Morden**

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Toofast wrote:
MarkDawg wrote:
jreilly89 wrote:
Iapedus wrote:
jreilly89 wrote:
I'm sorry I'd rather go read interesting 40k fluff than boring WW2 fluff.
I understand your point, and I am all for Sci-Fi Fantasy and Escapism, etc. But seriously, I think you need to go away and read some WW2 history / biographies or even just watch the World at War series, then come back and revise this statement. It is absurd.

I love Band of Brothers and WW2 is fascinating, but I don't think it makes a good tabletop game. There's plenty more exciting settings. Heck, I'd even take X-Wing or Infinity over WW2 games.

Bolt Action as far as game mechanics go is light years ahead of 40k it's a way better game rules wise without a doubt. So Rage quitters Play some Bolt Action you wont be sorry you did!

Can I play bolt action with grav tanks and wraithknights?

Yes, its possible. We played with the dust mega walkers.

Did you use your own rules for the DUST units - I bought quite a few recently and we have been toying with BA rules for them? Not seen any rules conversions?

**Wayniac**

Also check out Beyond the Gates of Antares which is a Bolt Action type of rules but 40kish with it's sci-fi stuff. Also written by Rick Priestly, although some of the models are meh and the fluff is average at best. Probably provides better ideas for converting 40k stats.

There is also Warpath (Mantic's not-40k rules) which probably have 40k armies done as fan lists on the forums already