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D thirster is a good answer to tides, 9 D weapons attacks in charge could be enough to roll just 1 six in D table and detonate a Tide, yesterday i killed 2 that way, one each turn.

blackmage wrote:
D thirster is a good answer to tides, 9 D weapons attacks in charge could be enough to roll just 1 six in D table and detonate a Tide, yesterday i killed 2 that way, one each turn.

That I will agree with.

How is Dante versus a Riptide?

Yoyoyo wrote:
How is Dante versus a Riptide?

He'll kill it. Eventually. During which time, the rest of Tau has shot me to little tiny pieces. If it gets the Nova 3++ off, he has virtually no chance of killing it in a reasonable amount of time. Dante is much better against Tyranid MCs other meq assault units.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Only dedicated melee units with the right tools can quickly solo a tide not counting on using a multi assault.

T6
6W
2+/3++/5+++

Well... the 3+ save is no given and can end up costing you wounds, so lets not understate that. and its likely to get used BEFORE the melee meaning that there won't be as many wounds (probably). If they never use theNova for that all the better.

There are a lot of rending and AP 2 weapons, Meltya bombs are plentiful in armies (well...they are here) and you only have to win by one. One. So.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

"Just melee it" is insane advice when we're talking about a model that starts across the board from you and moves an average of 13" per turn while deleting units, .

Its insane if you have no mobility.

What do you suppose you should do about that?

 Jancoran wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Only dedicated melee units with the right tools can quickly solo a tide not counting on using a multi assault.

T6
6W
2+/3++/5+++

Well... the 3+ save is no given and can end up costing you wounds, so lets not understate that. and its likely to get used BEFORE the melee meaning that there won't be as many wounds (probably). If they never use theNova for that all the better.

There are a lot of rending and AP 2 weapons, Meltya bombs are plentiful in armies (well...they are here) and you only have to win by one. One. So.

Winning by one is a lot harder against this thing than you make it sound. In fact, in army swaps, I'd shoot DC and then assault them with Riptides and kill them all. (5 man squads)

 Dozer Blades wrote:
He admittedly loves Tau so there is an obvious bias imo .

I dont love having my Tau lose. So i am telling him how to make me lose. This is good advice from a reliable source on the matter. You seem to think the Riptide is in the same melee league as other things its size. Thats not true.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:

Yoyoyo wrote:
How is Dante versus a Riptide?

He'll kill it. Eventually. During which time, the rest of Tau has shot me to little tiny pieces. If it gets the Nova 3++ off, he has virtually no chance of killing it in a reasonable amount of time. Dante is much better against Tyranid MCs other meq assault units.

Dante is a beast. he should be in a lot of lists.

Dante is not a beast. You are very delusional there. He's situationally good, as I described in my Dante thread. He's good at beating up units that are already borderline overcosted, but against the good stuff, he's not so hot. He's 50 pts less than a WK, and can't hold WK's jock strap.

Martel732 wrote:
Dante is not a beast. You are very delusional there.

uh...sure.

 Jancoran wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Dante is not a beast. You are very delusional there.

uh...sure.

I know you think you know better, but with BA I don't think you do. What exactly is so beast about Dante?

Martel732 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Dante is not a beast. You are very delusional there.

uh...sure.

I know you think you know better, but with BA I don't think you do. What exactly is so beast about Dante?

I know everything you know about Dante. We're reading the same book. Ive been on the receiving end plenty of times. He is quite good.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Only dedicated melee units with the right tools can quickly solo a tide not counting on using a multi assault.

T6
6W
2+/3++/5+++

First off, riptide has 5 wounds
Second, you are just assauming that A) nova charge went off and B) they choose the 3++ and C) They took sim injectors

 Jancoran wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Dante is not a beast. You are very delusional there.

uh...sure.

I know you think you know better, but with BA I don't think you do. What exactly is so beast about Dante?

I know everything you know about Dante. We're reading the same book. Ive been on the receiving end plenty of times. He is quite good.

No, he's okay. Against lists that I can probably already come out 50/50 against. Maybe you made mistakes and let him cause more damage than he should have. He's not that great. He's pretty easy to dakka off the table as he's only T4, as is any retinue he's got with him.

The only way I've found to kill riptides is to hope they jump out of position so they can't get supporting fire overwatch, then melee with a really strong melee unit, and hope it gets swept. Any other way is highly unreliable.
Getting into melee with one that doesn't get out of position? You squad dies to overwatch from half the damn army.
Try to shoot it with plasma/grav? it has FNP, and potentially a 3++
A riptide will kill a squad a turn easily with markerlight support. Killing the markerlights isn't the easiest thing either since they can sit with the gunline and have an army help with overwatch if you try and assault

generally, I find Tau to be the least fun army to play against because of stuff like this

StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:
The only way I've found to kill riptides is to hope they jump out of position so they can't get supporting fire overwatch, then melee with a really strong melee unit, and hope it gets swept. Any other way is highly unreliable.
Getting into melee with one that doesn't get out of position? You squad dies to overwatch from half the damn army.
Try to shoot it with plasma/grav? it has FNP, and potentially a 3++
A riptide will kill a squad a turn easily with markerlight support. Killing the markerlights isn't the easiest thing either since they can sit with the gunline and have an army help with overwatch if you try and assault

generally, I find Tau to be the least fun army to play against because of stuff like this

I agree this optimal, but it's very hard to pull off as you point out.

I've played the riptide wing quite extensively for the last month or two and I have only lost all three in one game...


Against Eldar.

He caught one in combat with karandas, and he used a combo of horrify and terrify to scare the other two away. Bad, bad game for me...

DirtyDeeds wrote:
I've played the riptide wing quite extensively for the last month or two and I have only lost all three in one game...


Against Eldar.

He caught one in combat with karandas, and he used a combo of horrify and terrify to scare the other two away. Bad, bad game for me...

A theme emerges...so what you're saying is... and i want to be sure Martel here's this... A combination of morale and/or melee attacks did the job? Is that what's being said?

Martel? Are you getting this? Lol.

But seriously... Do this.

 Jancoran wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
I've played the riptide wing quite extensively for the last month or two and I have only lost all three in one game...


Against Eldar.

He caught one in combat with karandas, and he used a combo of horrify and terrify to scare the other two away. Bad, bad game for me...

A theme emerges...so what you're saying is... and i want to be sure Martel here's this... A combination of morale and/or melee attacks did the job? Is that what's being said?

Martel? Are you getting this? Lol.

But seriously... Do this.

Many armies lack the way to both get negative LD modifiers on the riptide and have hard hitting melee units survive to actually getting into combat with it. Just because Eldar can do something doesn't mean other armies can do it easily

 Jancoran wrote:

Its insane if you have no mobility.

What do you suppose you should do about that?

"Buy a new army" is even more insane than "just melee it".

Last time I played Tau I actually had a great solution: Warhound Titan to the Riptide's face. Titans have a tendency to make people a tad annoyed though, because they're too good, like a certain other unit...

StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:
Many armies lack the way to both get negative LD modifiers on the riptide and have hard hitting melee units survive to actually getting into combat with it. Just because Eldar can do something doesn't mean other armies can do it easily

True. GW is quite obviously introducing both extreme durability alongside new counters, but the 7.0 armies are behind the curve. DA got Interromancy, Harlequins got Phantasmancy, SM got a formation that applies a -2LD debuff, Daemons have several new powers and an amazing relic, D-strength weapons have become more common than S10, charge from Deepstrke and null deployments are more common, Stealth/Shrouded and Ignores Cover mechanics are everywhere... you get the idea. For a company that claims models trump everything else they have been very busy in radically changing how 40k plays.

Allies have been a part of the 7.5th design, though. Ever hear of a LotD relic called the Animus Malorum? Any time a unit fails a standard LD check within 12", a model is removed. So BA character with the -2LD Crown Angelic could just charge a Riptide, and 42% of the time it's just leaving the table before anyone even swings. Also good synergy with Fear of the Darkness (-2LD Morale test). Even Tank Shocking with negative modifiers will even do it!

BA are overdue to be brought into 7th, that's the bottom line. Playing without a single ally (even a LotD squad -- fluffy) is going to be difficult.

I used to be a riptide hater then I realised how to beat them kill their markerlights

About a week ago there was the 750pt school league my first opponent of the day: Tau (in fact that was my only opponent for all 3 games all trying to use hunter cadres and stuff)

My first opponent had

darkstride
some budget troops (min squads)
a stormsurge
a riptide
rest filled with pathfinders

did he win? Nope

admittedly I was bringing an imperial knight but only after hearing there would be decurions WK etc etc
turn 1 all his pathfinders were dead his turn he killed nothing not even my scouts all because the riptide and stormsurge kept missing
In fact all 3 of my games had overcharging riptides/ ghostkeels did any of them win? No because all their markerlights were dead

 Jancoran wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
I've played the riptide wing quite extensively for the last month or two and I have only lost all three in one game...


Against Eldar.

He caught one in combat with karandas, and he used a combo of horrify and terrify to scare the other two away. Bad, bad game for me...

A theme emerges...so what you're saying is... and i want to be sure Martel here's this... A combination of morale and/or melee attacks did the job? Is that what's being said?

Martel? Are you getting this? Lol.

But seriously... Do this.

I have to have models left on the table to do this. That's my entire point. You and I have very different assessments of the lethality of the Tau list. Just as we have different assessment's of Dante's beastliness.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

Its insane if you have no mobility.

What do you suppose you should do about that?

"Buy a new army" is even more insane than "just melee it".

Last time I played Tau I actually had a great solution: Warhound Titan to the Riptide's face. Titans have a tendency to make people a tad annoyed though, because they're too good, like a certain other unit...

No one said to get a new army. But yeah. You might have to update one.

If you dont want to melee it, pay the price.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
I've played the riptide wing quite extensively for the last month or two and I have only lost all three in one game...


Against Eldar.

He caught one in combat with karandas, and he used a combo of horrify and terrify to scare the other two away. Bad, bad game for me...

A theme emerges...so what you're saying is... and i want to be sure Martel here's this... A combination of morale and/or melee attacks did the job? Is that what's being said?

Martel? Are you getting this? Lol.

But seriously... Do this.

I have to have models left on the table to do this. That's my entire point. You and I have very different assessments of the lethality of the Tau list. Just as we have different assessment's of Dante's beastliness.

Situation is King. Do what Situation demands. Or perish. Those are the choices. Riptides need you to smash their noses in or drive them off with LD atacks unless you can musted the AP 2 to kill them outright though if you do, it hardly seems there would be reason for this much angst.
every army can do this so... Good luck.

"If you dont want to melee it, pay the price."

I really think we are talking past each other. I WANT to do this very badly.

Martel732 wrote:
"If you dont want to melee it, pay the price."

I really think we are talking past each other. I WANT to do this very badly.

Cool. Then make the list do that. You have the Triple Raven Formation to help you. You have the tools i mentioned before. You have the Technology to make this happen.

Good luck. Do a battle report on your next game when you face Riptides again.

Martel732 wrote:
"If you dont want to melee it, pay the price."

I really think we are talking past each other. I WANT to do this very badly.

Really you dont. You've been given suggestions that work and constantly shoot them down. You have been psychologically beaten by any opponent with a Riptide before you even sit down.

Riptides, WKs, CMs with Shield Eternals. Each one takes a different way to handle it, but you have to be willing to listen and try.

Fragile wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"If you dont want to melee it, pay the price."

I really think we are talking past each other. I WANT to do this very badly.

Really you dont. You've been given suggestions that work and constantly shoot them down. You have been psychologically beaten by any opponent with a Riptide before you even sit down.

Riptides, WKs, CMs with Shield Eternals. Each one takes a different way to handle it, but you have to be willing to listen and try.

Most suggestions have been tailored suggestions. I can't list tailor. I think I'm going to try more storm shields as a base line test, as small arms are really out of favor in my play group.

The psychological problems have come from all the tablings. I can't engage in melee with zero models left. Tau can do this with frightening efficiency.

No. You SAY they are list tailoring so you can find an excuse not to do it. That's closer to the mark.

The reality is... You know for a fact Tau are going to show up as you know Eldar will. And if they dont, bonus. But you NEED to plan for them. Foolishly claiming you "shouldn't" plan for them for some reason? Not really flying with me.

So stop looking for reasons NOT to do these things and instead...do them.

What have you actually got to lose? Losing a game with little soldiers is hardly a heart break...but winning one can be cause for exultation. I suspect you could use more of the latter. And you've made plain that what you're doing NOW doesn't work so i would not bother referencing those failures as reasons to do or not do anything. Time for a fresh perspective, methinks.

Martel732 wrote:

Fragile wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"If you dont want to melee it, pay the price."

I really think we are talking past each other. I WANT to do this very badly.

Really you dont. You've been given suggestions that work and constantly shoot them down. You have been psychologically beaten by any opponent with a Riptide before you even sit down.

Riptides, WKs, CMs with Shield Eternals. Each one takes a different way to handle it, but you have to be willing to listen and try.

Most suggestions have been tailored suggestions. I can't list tailor. I think I'm going to try more storm shields as a base line test, as small arms are really out of favor in my play group.

The psychological problems have come from all the tablings. I can't engage in melee with zero models left. Tau can do this with frightening efficiency.

A CM with a bike and SS, leading a grav bike squad will give the Riptides more than enough to worry about. They are also a take all comers option as they have no real weaknesses. That is hardly list tailoring.

In all this, its seems like your looking for a painless, one shot kill type of an answer. That really doesnt happen often. The Riptide will do damage, but even a tac squad can handle one with a hidden powerfist.

All of these suggestions you're going to have to put together and try to find a strat that works.

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Only dedicated melee units with the right tools can quickly solo a tide not counting on using a multi assault.

T6
6W
2+/3++/5+++

First off, riptide has 5 wounds
Second, you are just assauming that A) nova charge went off and B) they choose the 3++ and C) They took sim injectors

I always prepare for the worst case and there is no reason not to take stim injectors.