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 CragHack wrote:
Do henchmen count as troops (because they do follow the same '1 HQ, 2 troops' FOC?) or as elites?

Sadly yes, Henchmen Squads are an Elites choice, so you are limited to 12 infantry models in an Inquisition Kill Team, plus their chosen Transport option.

what do Inquisition get as troops then? I thought that was the whole point of henchmen

They don't. They get a special Detachment called an Inquisition Detachment that consists of 1-2 HQ (i.e. Inquisitors) and 0-3 Elites (i.e. Henchmen Squads). This of course limits them severely in Kill Team, since you can only have a single Henchmen Squad (and their Dedicated Transport) due to having no Troops or Fast Attack options.

 Ambience 327 wrote:
This of course limits them severely in Kill Team, since you can only have a single Henchmen Squad (and their Dedicated Transport)

maybe so, but a single henchmen unit + chimera can still pack a punch.

1.acolyte + plasmagun
2.acolyte + meltagun
3.acolyte + flamer
4.servitor + heavy bolter
5.servitor + heavy bolter
6.servitor + heavy bolter
7. assassin
8. assassin
9. assassin
10. acolyte +armor with bolter
11. acolyte +armor with bolter
12. acolyte +armor with bolter

chimera with heavy flamer + Heavy bolter

shogun wrote:

 Ambience 327 wrote:
This of course limits them severely in Kill Team, since you can only have a single Henchmen Squad (and their Dedicated Transport)

maybe so, but a single henchmen unit + chimera can still pack a punch.

1.acolyte + plasmagun
2.acolyte + meltagun
3.acolyte + flamer
4.servitor + heavy bolter
5.servitor + heavy bolter
6.servitor + heavy bolter
7. assassin
8. assassin
9. assassin
10. acolyte +armor with bolter
11. acolyte +armor with bolter
12. acolyte +armor with bolter

chimera with heavy flamer + Heavy bolter

I have to think it ill-advised to sink 60 points into units that are going to legit do nothing 50% of the time in KT. The points would perhaps be better spent on more assassins or some sicker wargear on other acolytes. In fact if you can free up 10 more points (like taking a rhino instead) 2 space monkeys can be a pretty nice backfield. I mean Eagle Eye on a monkey that rolls + 12" range...holy melta range batman! Just saiyan.

exliontamer wrote:

shogun wrote:

 Ambience 327 wrote:
This of course limits them severely in Kill Team, since you can only have a single Henchmen Squad (and their Dedicated Transport)

maybe so, but a single henchmen unit + chimera can still pack a punch.

1.acolyte + plasmagun
2.acolyte + meltagun
3.acolyte + flamer
4.servitor + heavy bolter
5.servitor + heavy bolter
6.servitor + heavy bolter
7. assassin
8. assassin
9. assassin
10. acolyte +armor with bolter
11. acolyte +armor with bolter
12. acolyte +armor with bolter

chimera with heavy flamer + Heavy bolter

I have to think it ill-advised to sink 60 points into units that are going to legit do nothing 50% of the time in KT. The points would perhaps be better spent on more assassins or some sicker wargear on other acolytes. In fact if you can free up 10 more points (like taking a rhino instead) 2 space monkeys can be a pretty nice backfield. I mean Eagle Eye on a monkey that rolls + 12" range...holy melta range batman! Just saiyan.

Dont got my codex with me, but iam pretty sure servitors can switch their powerfist with a heavy bolter for free. So thats 30 points for 3 heavy bolters that shoot half the time. Iam a glas half full kinda guy..

Anybody tried any skitarii kill teams?

Because both types of infantry (vanguard and rangers) seem pretty good. Rangers have great range and move through cover, while the vanguard are cheaper and have that nifty little rifle.

Also, unless battlescribe is bugged, apparently their sarge gets 2 wounds. Thats very handy in kill team.

I was thinking of this

Rangers x10
Vanguard Alpha
Arc Rifle (eagle eye) weapon
Plasma caliver (preferred enemy) guerilla
Plasma caliver (feel no pain) Indomitable

I really hate that theres only really two tree for shooting armies, Skitarii always have relentless so it doesnt really help us, and other than executioner in Dirty fighter there really ain't a lot there to use.

The Chimera might be better off with psybolt ammunition to help it hurt light tanks, rather than a heavy flamer. And taking some monkeys rather than the servitors.

 Crazyterran wrote:
The Chimera might be better off with psybolt ammunition to help it hurt light tanks, rather than a heavy flamer. And taking some monkeys rather than the servitors.

Psybolt cost another 10 points that I rather spend on 2x meltabombs. Also Monkeys are too expensive to get shot down first turn, because their very fragile.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Anybody tried any skitarii kill teams?

Because both types of infantry (vanguard and rangers) seem pretty good. Rangers have great range and move through cover, while the vanguard are cheaper and have that nifty little rifle.

Also, unless battlescribe is bugged, apparently their sarge gets 2 wounds. Thats very handy in kill team.

I was thinking of this

Rangers x10
Vanguard Alpha
Arc Rifle (eagle eye) weapon
Plasma caliver (preferred enemy) guerilla
Plasma caliver (feel no pain) Indomitable

I really hate that theres only really two tree for shooting armies, Skitarii always have relentless so it doesnt really help us, and other than executioner in Dirty fighter there really ain't a lot there to use.

I actually went 3-0 last weekend with a Skitarii team. I don't think it's optimized but it was

Vanguard x10, Alpha took rad carbine and Conversion field for 4++, 3 of the others took Arc Rifles (str 6 + haywire rapid fire seems like a decent all-rounder to me, but I plan to experiment with others at some point)
Dragoon with Radium Jezzail - Sniper + Rad Poisoning. Giving it a gun instead of the lance seemed fine to me for KT because at strength 5 it should be able to hurt anything in melee anyway, and I wanted it to shoot as it moved around.

The strength 3 guns were definitely offset by rad poisoning. None of my opponents had vehicles, so I was just shooting the arc rifles into whatever.

I went against an Inquisition band that I don't remember the exact composition of and tabled it, but he did explode my dragoon to open the game lol.

Eldar with shining spears and dire avengers was my round 2, it was very nail-biting, but he got unlucky and failed not one but two 6" charges in the same turn with a couple jetbikes, so I got a chance to shoot them down.

Tyranid warriors and raveners after that, 3 of each. It was pretty close, actually, but rad poisoning won out because I guess raveners only have a 5+ armor? So any wounds I rolled just went through on those guys, but he got into cc a couple times.

My specialists were all carbines, one got killer instinct (changing this for sure, I just figured I'd try it in case he got into cc, but since I don't want to be in cc anyway, I'm gonna explore other stuff), then I gave one +1 BS (this may change to Eagle Eye on an Arc Rifle, though it helped a couple times), and the last Infiltrate (this played havoc when I outflanked on a couple guys). The specialist roles I'm going to continue to experiment with.

shogun wrote:

Dont got my codex with me, but iam pretty sure servitors can switch their powerfist with a heavy bolter for free. So thats 30 points for 3 heavy bolters that shoot half the time. Iam a glas half full kinda guy..

Oh you are right. They are 10 each with heavy bolters. Still seems like a pretty big gamble...but 30 is far less painful than 60. Whatever floats your inquisitional boat.

Just had a quick game with one of my Nid lists:

3 Warriors (Devourer, Scytal)
14 termagaunts (13 devourers)

One warrior was obviously the leader, and the other two had +1BS and FNP. I gave the one fleshborer gaunt Infiltrate. Opponent was playing rough riders and guard vets, interestingly had the same number of models as me, 17. We both rolled the +2 to seize leader trait.

Were playing on a very terrain-dense city board, and I won the roll off and gave him first turn, as I outranged his CC weapon choices. Unfortunately this allowed him to charge my infiltrating gaunt (should've outflanked it for line breaker) and kill it for first blood. From there it was downhill though - I managed to kill about 4-5 of his guys with my 48 devourer shots. He rapidly realised he needed to take cover to get close, which led to him taking a few gaunts out, but the problem he had was his rough riders were just too fast for the rest of his list. They ranged ahead and either got shot to bits, or in a few cases made charges VS warriors, put a wound on, then were promptly chopped to bits. They'd probably have been better just picking off lone gaunts. Ultimately the weight of devourers proved just too much though really, and i managed to take him down to just one rider with only about 5 casualties (he did melta my leader in the face though!)

I think this Nid list has a fair bit of potential, though it is absolutely terrified of Str8 - if the Warriors die, it's going to be all over very quickly. I was fortunate the guard player was running a CC list, and hadn't stocked up on missile launchers and plasma. I think adjusting to a Barbed Strangler warrior (leader), and two others with +50% range and either FNP or EW depending on the foe might be a good idea. I think Infiltrate is the best option for the gaunt so I have something to contest Infiltrators/Outflank if need be, even if the instinctive behaviour is likely to be a pain. It's just whether to give it to devourer gaunt instead...

So what's the best Daemons can do? Having access to only 1 FA slot when pretty much all of our best options are there is rather limiting as is a complete lack of any meaningful shooting since there's no psychic phase. There's also not much in the way of upgrades except ap2 weapons for sergeants.

Is 8 Screamers with a few specialists tossed around really the best we can do? They seem like the most durable thanks to 4+ jink rerolling ones (barring plague drones but these strike me as a little too expensive for kt) and have the only form of pseudo shooting available in the form of their turbo boost slash attack. They're obviously very mobile for objectives purposes and have no trouble opening cans with S5 AP2 armorbane. What specialists would you use in an all screamer list?

Hounds are cheaper per wound but not as fast and cant be specialists, meaning you must add either a troop or an elites choice.

Seekers are plenty fast and killy, but seem like they'd be killing themselves as often as not with dangerous terrain tests and only a 5++

What about 5 Screamers and 3 Flamers? Still fast and durable but at least something of a shooting presence. Specialists would you use in this scenario?

I've used 8 Screamers to great effect. Their high mobility, 2 wounds, and the ability to choose between multiple attacks, or a single AP 2 attack, was a lethal combination. Admittedly, most of my opponents favor MEQ forces, so it may just be rock/paper/scissors.

What specialists did you go for? I'm thinking Indomitable - FNP, Dirty Fighter - Exploit Weakness (rending), and either a Combat Specialist with Killer Instinct (wound on 2+) or a Guerrilla Specialist with infiltrate or scout. Seeing as the Screamers should have little trouble getting where they need to go I'd lean toward killer instinct

You can totally have an inquisition team with almost all servitors, but how does mindlock work inside a transport?

1x priest with laspistol/chainsword/meltabombs
10x heavy bolters servitors
Chimera with heavy bolters turret, heavy bolters hull weapon, storm bolter, psybolt ammunition.

That's a lot of S5-6 shooting coming out of or near a metal box.
30 S5 AP4 shots, 2 S5 AP5 shots, and 6 S6 AP4 shots. Plus I guess lasgun arrays if you have extra guys in the chimera. How many can shoot out the top again?

 astro_nomicon wrote:
What specialists did you go for? I'm thinking Indomitable - FNP, Dirty Fighter - Exploit Weakness (rending), and either a Combat Specialist with Killer Instinct (wound on 2+) or a Guerrilla Specialist with infiltrate or scout. Seeing as the Screamers should have little trouble getting where they need to go I'd lean toward killer instinct

Feel No Pain
Rage
Fleshbane

Mr ghoti wrote:
You can totally have an inquisition team with almost all servitors, but how does mindlock work inside a transport?

1x priest with laspistol/chainsword/meltabombs
10x heavy bolters servitors
Chimera with heavy bolters turret, heavy bolters hull weapon, storm bolter, psybolt ammunition.

That's a lot of S5-6 shooting coming out of or near a metal box.
30 S5 AP4 shots, 2 S5 AP5 shots, and 6 S6 AP4 shots. Plus I guess lasgun arrays if you have extra guys in the chimera. How many can shoot out the top again?

2 of whatever you want out the top, 3 lasguns per side fired by occupants at bs 3, which can target different units.

I would consider a hull heavy flamer on the Chimera though. That can be really handy to clear an objective in the night fighting objective

Mr ghoti wrote:
You can totally have an inquisition team with almost all servitors, but how does mindlock work inside a transport?

1x priest with laspistol/chainsword/meltabombs
10x heavy bolters servitors
Chimera with heavy bolters turret, heavy bolters hull weapon, storm bolter, psybolt ammunition.

That's a lot of S5-6 shooting coming out of or near a metal box.
30 S5 AP4 shots, 2 S5 AP5 shots, and 6 S6 AP4 shots. Plus I guess lasgun arrays if you have extra guys in the chimera. How many can shoot out the top again?

Five models out the top, and Inquisitorial Chimeras don't actually have lasgun arrays. Given that Mindlock operates normally inside transports I can't recommend doing this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
...2 of whatever you want out the top, 3 lasguns per side fired by occupants at bs 3, which can target different units...

As of the current Codex Inquisitorial Chimeras aren't exactly the same thing as Guard Chimeras.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Mr ghoti wrote:
You can totally have an inquisition team with almost all servitors, but how does mindlock work inside a transport?

1x priest with laspistol/chainsword/meltabombs
10x heavy bolters servitors
Chimera with heavy bolters turret, heavy bolters hull weapon, storm bolter, psybolt ammunition.

That's a lot of S5-6 shooting coming out of or near a metal box.
30 S5 AP4 shots, 2 S5 AP5 shots, and 6 S6 AP4 shots. Plus I guess lasgun arrays if you have extra guys in the chimera. How many can shoot out the top again?

Five models out the top, and Inquisitorial Chimeras don't actually have lasgun arrays. Given that Mindlock operates normally inside transports I can't recommend doing this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
...2 of whatever you want out the top, 3 lasguns per side fired by occupants at bs 3, which can target different units...

As of the current Codex Inquisitorial Chimeras aren't exactly the same thing as Guard Chimeras.

Ooh you have the old 55pt ones then, nice. So yeah you get a 10pt discount, 5 generic firepoints, and no downsides.

Yeah that's a nice thing to have, really surprised GW hasn't FAQs that honestly

Additionally, only 3 servitors can take items from the servitor weapons list.

 astro_nomicon wrote:
So what's the best Daemons can do?
[...]
What about 5 Screamers and 3 Flamers? Still fast and durable but at least something of a shooting presence. Specialists would you use in this scenario?

Right now I contemplate the use of 4 Flamers and 6 Flesh Hounds. I think that those flamer weapons of the flamers are going to pay off against horde styled lists as well as those low armor hiding in the shadow lists.
Though I do not have any clue on what specialists traits to choose.

ryuken87 wrote:
Additionally, only 3 servitors can take items from the servitor weapons list.

Oh darn, forgot about that. Well 3 servitors and 2 Jokaero can all shoot out the top. Still prefer hot shot acolytes though.

Snikrot
7 kommandos with a nob(pk), big shoota, and burna

This worked pretty well for me in a 3 way free for all last night. I infiltrated into a ruin while the burna and snikrot outflanked. The skitarii rangers shot at the big shoota since it was the only one they could see and he went to ground for a 2+ cover save. The deathwatch shot the skitarii and advanced towards my boys. Turn two the burna fried half the skitarii who were huddled in a building. The big shoota missed and nobody of mine died while a deathwatch guy got sniped. Turn three the burna died and snikrot came on. The nob that had come out of the building charged the guy with the auspec and killed him with the pk. 3 boys kill a marine and retreat to cover. The skitarii retreat to the top level of the building while snikrot and the nob chase. A grenade kills 2 skitarii and the leaders head is taken by snikrot. Skitarii are wiped out. The deathwatch black shield kills a boy and then gets charged by 3 more. He kills one before being taken down. 1 of the heavy bolters is killed by the big shoota and the other flees resulting in an ork victory. Out of 16 enemy models the kommandos killed 13 of them.
Skrak head smashas skull nobs works ok too but skirarii destroy them with ap4.

Guard lists I might use:
A) Infantry platoon with some heavy weapons/special weapons and a Sentinel
B) Chimera/Taurox vets and a Sentinel
C) Nearly naked vets and a Hellhound or Banewolf

I don't have the Ork codex, but I should have just enough of them for a proper kill team force. With inly an approximate knwoledge of points, I'm thinking of doing one of these lists:
A) Trukkboyz (with Nob/Klawnob?), Grotz and a Deffkopta
B) Boyz, Nob (with powerklaw?), Grotz and 2 Koptas.

I have never played Orks before, and it's been a while since I've done kill team, so I'd like to hear what you think about any of these potential lists!

 KommissarKiln wrote:

I don't have the Ork codex, but I should have just enough of them for a proper kill team force. With inly an approximate knwoledge of points, I'm thinking of doing one of these lists:
A) Trukkboyz (with Nob/Klawnob?), Grotz and a Deffkopta
B) Boyz, Nob (with powerklaw?), Grotz and 2 Koptas.

I have never played Orks before, and it's been a while since I've done kill team, so I'd like to hear what you think about any of these potential lists!

If you drop the Nob, you can fit the Trukk Boyz, 15 Grots, Runtherder, and 2 Koptas.

A Nob w/PK is almost 1/4 of your 200 points, an no where near as useful as a the Grots or a Deffkopta.

Use your Trukk to get them up close, and assault with your boyz.
The Grots secure objectives and shoot anything they can.
Deffkoptas to pop anything with an armor value.

 KommissarKiln wrote:

C) Nearly naked vets and a Hellhound or Banewolf

Hellhound and its variants are not allowed, they are one AV over the limit.

Boyz in a trukk with a klaw is pretty good. The klaw helps vs warriors and such. Even though they are all seperate units if the enemy swings first double or triple team them or more depending on how big and scary they are. A trukk full of shoota boys and 3 bikers with nob and pk works pretty well and against a lot of enemies nob squads work too.

What do you guys think of DE Reavers? You can get 9 of them, 3 with cluster caltrops and one with a heat lance or blaster (I prefer heat lance, for its AP1 and therefore a better chance to explode a vehicle or severely disable it). One of the cluster caltrops guy will have stealth for 2+ jink, a regular guy Killer Instinct (wounds on 2+ in CC) for some CC prowess, and the heat lance guy will have his weapon Master-Crafted, 'cause you can't miss that vital shot. Good mobility, 3+ jink (2+ in the mission with night fighting every turn), and a lot of HoW hits (3D6 S6 Rending with the cluster caltrop guys alone).

Teschio wrote:
What do you guys think of DE Reavers? You can get 9 of them, 3 with cluster caltrops and one with a heat lance or blaster (I prefer heat lance, for its AP1 and therefore a better chance to explode a vehicle or severely disable it). One of the cluster caltrops guy will have stealth for 2+ jink, a regular guy Killer Instinct (wounds on 2+ in CC) for some CC prowess, and the heat lance guy will have his weapon Master-Crafted, 'cause you can't miss that vital shot. Good mobility, 3+ jink (2+ in the mission with night fighting every turn), and a lot of HoW hits (3D6 S6 Rending with the cluster caltrop guys alone).

I was thinking of making a list of 10, 6 naked, 1 arena champion, 2 blasters, and 1 heat lance. Give either a blaster sharpshooter to ignore cover or the heatlance Eagle Eye for a 13.5" melta range, give one stealth to be more survivable, and another promethium charges so it can actually swing at initiative for once in its life. The ignores cover is used to pick out enemy specialists with its 12" move, 18" range, and then 2d6" running away. Just move forwards, shoot what you can, then go hide in a corner. I considered the caltrop list you presented, but was worried about charging a model, killing it with caltrops, and being stuck next to its friends (who might have a flamer). Though, it does feel strange not taking an even multiple of 3.