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I saw in the thread that US availability for Xpress is expected around December - I might have missed, but when is the new formula Game Color expected?

KipCujo wrote:
I saw in the thread that US availability for Xpress is expected around December - I might have missed, but when is the new formula Game Color expected?

Same time

Is there a summary of changes for the new Game Color vs old Game Color?

Are the colours themselves a good match?

I'm wondering if I should stock up on a couple of paints that I use for my armies before the change (magic blue is my Ultramarines drybrush colour).

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Is there a summary of changes for the new Game Color vs old Game Color?

So far, the only review I've seen is the video from Angel Giraldez. In it he mentions that an advantage of the new color is that they take longer to dry so you can more easily blend colors. He's also painting over a black undercoat and ut looks like the flesh colors he's using have decent coverage.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Are the colours themselves a good match?

Vallejo has kept the same product codes from the old line to the new for the same paints (e.g., the current Magic Blue has the product code 72.021 as does the reformulated Magic Blue). Those paints should match up from what Vallejo was saying on their Facebook page but as usual we will need to have the paints in hand to see if that is the case.

The product codes can be found at http://www.vallejoacrylics.com/en/home/ by clicking on the book in the upper right corner.

I'm expecting them to behave differently - at least a little. New forulation is new, and a change in drying time is at least one behavioural change so it's certainly possible that there will be others (and I spend enough time waiting for paint to dry as it is - I'm on Dakka typing in this thread right now because I'm waiting for same.

As such, I've been stockpiling the VMC paints that I use for specific purposes in specific ways (especially those I use to drybrush).

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Is there a summary of changes for the new Game Color vs old Game Color?

Are the colours themselves a good match?

I'm wondering if I should stock up on a couple of paints that I use for my armies before the change (magic blue is my Ultramarines drybrush colour).

Never leave something like that to chance! Buy what you'll need, now, or risk regretting it forever.

 Azazelx wrote:
I'm expecting them to behave differently - at least a little. New forulation is new, and a change in drying time is at least one behavioural change so it's certainly possible that there will be others (and I spend enough time waiting for paint to dry as it is - I'm on Dakka typing in this thread right now because I'm waiting for same.

As such, I've been stockpiling the VMC paints that I use for specific purposes in specific ways (especially those I use to drybrush).

How thick of a layer are you applying that you have to wait for paint to dry? Aside from washes/contrasts/inks I don't think I ever have to wait for paint to dry.

For drybrushing, I'm actually wondering if the new paints will be better. You don't actually want a completely dry brush when doing drybrushing, there's a very narrow window of moisture where drybrushing works well, too dry and it'll start turning powdery, so a slower drying time may mean that you can stay in that window for longer. On the flip side, if the paint is too thin and not pigment dense enough, the slow drying time may just make it harder to find the window in the first place.

I don't actually use a whole heap of Game Colour paints (got bucketloads of Model Colour, not too many Game Colours), so I might just stock up on a few that I use a lot and then if it turns out the new formulation is better I'll have wasted my money

 JHMiniatures wrote:
Vallejo has listened to your feedback and we are already working on 20 more colours

This time I WILL take part in the selection and I will make sure we fill all the gaps

Nice would be:

Light Pale Yellow
Dark Red
Dark Violet
Dark Blue
Dark Sea Green
Beige
Ash Grey
Stone Grey
Dark Grey
Black

@JHMiniatures
1) Could you please tell how Xpress look using other primers than white (including ones like AP color primers)?
2) Do I need to prime again when using Xpress when by mistake I apply some other color on the mini's part intended for another Xpress color? For example, let's say my SM is intended to be all yellow with blue shoulder pads, and during painting my brush with yellow goes a little over yet untouched shoulder pad. Should I reprime that part of the shoulder pad or can I paint over the yellow Xpress with blue Xpress once the yellow is fully dried?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

How thick of a layer are you applying that you have to wait for paint to dry? Aside from washes/contrasts/inks I don't think I ever have to wait for paint to dry.

Not thick at all. Depending on the paint, sometimes straight, but usually thinned with medium or water. It doesn't dry in three seconds or anything, so I have to wait unelss I'm blending.

For drybrushing, I'm actually wondering if the new paints will be better. You don't actually want a completely dry brush when doing drybrushing, there's a very narrow window of moisture where drybrushing works well, too dry and it'll start turning powdery, so a slower drying time may mean that you can stay in that window for longer. On the flip side, if the paint is too thin and not pigment dense enough, the slow drying time may just make it harder to find the window in the first place.
I don't actually use a whole heap of Game Colour paints (got bucketloads of Model Colour, not too many Game Colours), so I might just stock up on a few that I use a lot and then if it turns out the new formulation is better I'll have wasted my money

I've been painting a long time, so I already know how to drybrush for different effects but thanks for the guide. Point being that new paints will be new, so your dice-rolling call on hoping they work the same or better. I bought a stockpile of those colours I want to stay identical in case they're not. Because sometimes new versions of "the same" paints aren't exactly the same at all -see Original Army Painter Warpaints > Current Army Painter Warpaints, Every iteration of Citadel's Paints and Washes, right up to the "new" Shades. See below...

You might prefer one or the other, or even both for different uses (as I do), but they're certainly not identical - either in effect and several have slight colour differences or consistency changes that may or may not matter to you when painting an army..



I'm expecting the new VGC to be good paints, but not identical to the current ones - hence I'm grabbing the ones that I want to keep exactly the same (within batch variations), and the new versions will add to my options.

Well, this is the first set of 'fast' paints that I might actually try out. GW's were too expensive/inconsistent, Scale75's had terrible coverage/opacity, and AP's the notorious reactivation problems. Going to wait for more reviews though, at least a couple months after general release to let any of the skeletons shake free from the closet.

The national inquirer of warhammer, Spikeybitz, decided today to put out a hitpiece on both JH and vallejo, saying they conspired to tank speedpaint.
https://spikeybits.com/2022/11/vallejo-army-painter-speedpaint-xpress-paints.html
I don't believe it at all, but I wanted to put this here so people know they did.
It quite frankly stupid.

Can we please get a transcript for those of us who don't want to get gak on our shoes from wading through his site.

Basically Rob is saying that the reactivation issue with AP Speedpaints is not a fault, as they were intended as a "one coat solution", and if you want to paint over them then just use varnish between coats(!).

He is accusing Juan (in a roundabout way) of deliberately attacking the Speedpaint line because of his ties to the upcoming Vallejo Xpress paint line. Juan posted something on social media a while back saying that he is struggling financially, Rob uses a screenshot of this to suggest "motive" for Juan's actions(!)

Rob realy does come across as a complete dill weed here.

It's not the first time that Rob has done this (attack Juan), ironically I'm getting the strong impression that Army Painter has some kind of deal with Spiky Bitz, as you would have to be either an imbecile or a paid shill to see APs reactivation issue as anything other than a major flaw.

Edit: Holdup, I didn't type "dill weed". Dakka, please don't put Americanisms in my mouth

Edit #2: Having read the rest of the Spikey Bitz article I've decided to never listen to their podcast or go to their site again. I've got no problem with Kenny or Wyatt, but Rob is just completely unlikeable

Spikeybitz and their issues with Juan have been covered back on page 3 and it dosn't look like they've changed. No need to rehash it again.

 Ghaz wrote:
Spikeybitz and their issues with Juan have been covered back on page 3 and it dosn't look like they've changed. No need to rehash it again.

That's right buddy, it was me who first bought it up.

Maybe there is a need to bring it up again, considering that Spikeybitz have just doubled down on their accusations. It's clear that it's a personal attack at this point.

The article was published today, so it seems relevant? This isn't about the previous podcast episode. Doubling down on the wrong objective.

*reads article*
I'm confused; does SpikeyBits think Juan is a paint chemist? Because nobody is just whipping up a range of commercial paints (let alone one that an international brand like Vallejo would market) in their basement alone. This whole thing reads like tilting at windmills. Kind of hilarious actually, and a bit sad too. :(

I'm baffled by the claim that customers were using SpeedPaints the 'wrong way' when no one was informed ahead of time that they would only be usable as single layer application. It's not unreasonable to expect a product to be behave like acrylic when all the other products in its category do.

Fire_Forever wrote:
The article was published today, so it seems relevant? This isn't about the previous podcast episode. Doubling down on the wrong objective.

*reads article*
I'm confused; does SpikeyBits think Juan is a paint chemist? Because nobody is just whipping up a range of commercial paints (let alone one that an international brand like Vallejo would market) in their basement alone. This whole thing reads like tilting at windmills. Kind of hilarious actually, and a bit sad too. :(

I'm baffled by the claim that customers were using SpeedPaints the 'wrong way' when no one was informed ahead of time that they would only be usable as single layer application. It's not unreasonable to expect a product to be behave like acrylic when all the other products in its category do.

It's almost like Rob is being paid to promote/defend AP

Edit: See Rob? I can do it too.

Maybe leave speed paints debates to speed paint thread...

Could care less about personal trollish wars on other sites too.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
Spikeybitz and their issues with Juan have been covered back on page 3 and it dosn't look like they've changed. No need to rehash it again.

That's right buddy, it was me who first bought it up.

Maybe there is a need to bring it up again, considering that Spikeybitz have just doubled down on their accusations. It's clear that it's a personal attack at this point.

My thread, so no we don't need to bring it up in a thread that's about Vallejo's new Xpress and Game Color paints and not who Spikeybitz is feuding with this week.

 Ghaz wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
Spikeybitz and their issues with Juan have been covered back on page 3 and it dosn't look like they've changed. No need to rehash it again.

That's right buddy, it was me who first bought it up.

Maybe there is a need to bring it up again, considering that Spikeybitz have just doubled down on their accusations. It's clear that it's a personal attack at this point.

My thread, so no we don't need to bring it up in a thread that's about Vallejo's new Xpress and Game Color paints and not who Spikeybitz is feuding with this week.

I've said my piece, don't have a tantrum

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
Spikeybitz and their issues with Juan have been covered back on page 3 and it dosn't look like they've changed. No need to rehash it again.

That's right buddy, it was me who first bought it up.

Maybe there is a need to bring it up again, considering that Spikeybitz have just doubled down on their accusations. It's clear that it's a personal attack at this point.

My thread, so no we don't need to bring it up in a thread that's about Vallejo's new Xpress and Game Color paints and not who Spikeybitz is feuding with this week.

I've said my piece, don't have a tantrum

Don't drag my thread off-topic with posts that violate the forum rules.

 Ghaz wrote:
My thread,

All due respect Ghaz, it's not.

You created the thread, you don't own the thread. It's a News and Rumour thread about a company (which as far as i'm aware you neither own nor are employed by) and it's products. You created this thread in a public space with the intention of getting said publics opinions. This isn't your personal P&M blog where you might have a modicum of control over what gets posted there. You don't have any say in who posts what in this thread nor do you get to decide what's considered off-topic. If you don't like something someone's posted, then hit the yellow triangle and let the MODs sort it out.

 Snrub wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
My thread,

All due respect Ghaz, it's not.

You created the thread, you don't own the thread. It's a News and Rumour thread about a company (which as far as i'm aware you neither own nor are employed by) and it's products. You created this thread in a public space with the intention of getting said publics opinions. This isn't your personal P&M blog where you might have a modicum of control over what gets posted there. You don't have any say in who posts what in this thread nor do you get to decide what's considered off-topic. If you don't like something someone's posted, then hit the yellow triangle and let the MODs sort it out.

Yes, it is. This has been clarified by the mods before that the creator of a thread does have some say in a thread, especially if others are trying ot drag it off-topic (as your post is).

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

 JHMiniatures wrote:
Vallejo has listened to your feedback and we are already working on 20 more colours

This time I WILL take part in the selection and I will make sure we fill all the gaps

Another 20, that is wide. So please include, a second Caucasoid flesh tone, a Mongoloid flesh tone and two Negroid flesh tones please. Black flesh tones and oriental flesh tones are very much overlooked, the only company going all in with a set is Army Painter, and while that set is great it is not a contrast set.

Hmm... Triads for flesh have always been pretty easy to find.
Some great sets for non caucasian skin here.

https://www.wargamesfoundry.com/search?q=flesh

Not contrasts, but available.

I have the Army Painter Skin Tones boxset, and it covers me for non-contrast usage.

A contrast set for painting non-Caucasoid skintones would be a plus. Multiple skintones also serve double usage for other natural colours, as with a range covering Negroid and Caucasoid skin you also cover parchment, cloth and a lot of wood colours also.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Azazelx wrote:

I think asking for 1/5 of the new range to be explicitly named as skintones is probably unlikely. I agree that a couple of other names flesh tones is a good idea, but I think it stands that you don't need a paint to be named "skintone" for it to be useful for that purpose. And that's without mixing paints or contrasts (or Xpress paints!)

Not as ridiculous as you might at first think, five human skintones also covers a lot of other uses.

 Azazelx wrote:

A few of those paints have "skin" or "flesh" in their names, but just as many don't. (Plus my skin-tone-ish Citadels and Coat'D'Arms' and P3s are in another container, and yet others in their range cases). My go-to for Caucasian flesh highlights is VMA Sand, along with several others that live on the paint desk.

It is a developing trend not to have a single labelled skin tone in your range.

I am a big fan of Daley-Rowney FW Acrylics. Very good inks with heavy pigmentation in decent 30ml dropper bottles at a low price.
Their main customers are schools, and so got negative feedback when the only fleshtone in their range was distinctly Caucasoid and labelled 'Flesh Tint'. While that was overly woke I do in part understand offence taken as the idea that flesh colour = Caucasoid is insensitive. 'Flesh Tint' is now called 'Peach Pink'.
When I got some I thought there was a mistake in the order, and other addition to the range to collect (it is well worth getting them all). Nope, same paint, different name.

I recently bought my first contrast paints, imperial fist and baal red; while they are lovely, they are expensive.

My experience with Vallejo game color and model color paints is that they are very good.

I'm looking forward to buying some of these xpress colors.

 Orlanth wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

I think asking for 1/5 of the new range to be explicitly named as skintones is probably unlikely. I agree that a couple of other names flesh tones is a good idea, but I think it stands that you don't need a paint to be named "skintone" for it to be useful for that purpose. And that's without mixing paints or contrasts (or Xpress paints!)

Not as ridiculous as you might at first think, five human skintones also covers a lot of other uses.

It doesn't really matter what they're named, but currently it looks like only one of the Xpress paints so far is something that could be used as a skin tone, and that one is very red/pink even for caucasian skin, so another 3 or 4 (regardless of whether they're named "skintone" or not) would be pretty reasonable.

 Osorios wrote:
I recently bought my first contrast paints, imperial fist and baal red; while they are lovely, they are expensive.

My experience with Vallejo game color and model color paints is that they are very good.

I'm looking forward to buying some of these xpress colors.

I am too, but if you want cheap and can't wait there isn't much wrong with Army Painter Speedpaints, despite the moaning you hear. The reactivation can be an advantage dependant on application, and can be cured with varnish, mixing with regular AP pains, or as Juan told us Contrast Medium as a simple fix-all.

Or you could try Warcolours Antithesis range, another solid product line and woefully overlooked.

The only range of 'contrast' I do not recommend is Scale 75 Instant Colors, it works but does an inferior job.

 Orlanth wrote:

 Osorios wrote:
I recently bought my first contrast paints, imperial fist and baal red; while they are lovely, they are expensive.

My experience with Vallejo game color and model color paints is that they are very good.

I'm looking forward to buying some of these xpress colors.

I am too, but if you want cheap and can't wait there isn't much wrong with Army Painter Speedpaints, despite the moaning you hear. The reactivation can be an advantage dependant on application, and can be cured with varnish, mixing with regular AP pains, or as Juan told us Contrast Medium as a simple fix-all.

Or you could try Warcolours Antithesis range, another solid product line and woefully overlooked.

The only range of 'contrast' I do not recommend is Scale 75 Instant Colors, it works but does an inferior job.

I've been having good luck with the SpeedPaints, but I am the kind of painter they seem to have been intended for (one color per night and I might have several days between painting) as I don't do fancy blends, glazing, or any of that other fancy stuff.

Maybe I would have cared about being a better painter but after you have a guy show up with the same army he has won 5 separate painting competitions over 2 years blow out your local painting/tourney event, I'm kind of a "screw it" mentality.

Juan is kind of acting as a bit of an ambassador when it comes to the new Vallejo range, so I do think it's important that developments are covered in full in case anyone is coming to Dakka for clarification of anything that has been said elsewhere.

But the suggestion that he's been shilling or that any of this has been a coordinated attack by Vallejo and Juan is absurd and insulting both to him and to our intelligence.

Juan is an enthusiast for contrast-style paints. That's why he covered the Speedpaints and their reactivation issue (even coming up with ways to "fix" it in one video), and that's why Vallejo sought his expertise for their range. The two things are related only as far as Juan is effectively an expert in this field.

He even said earlier in this thread, I believe, that designing paints like this is going to be a compromise one way or another, with "improvements" in one range over another being only incremental at best. Kind of his point all along is that the Army Painter range isn't actually bad because it reactivates. It just does. The Xpress colours and GW contrasts do not. And that's that.

In the end, Juan is an incredibly skilled painter who wants to pass his expertise along to the rest of us. And Spikeybits is.... well.. Just one look at the site would suggest that maybe, possibly, perhaps, they rely on adverts for the revenue.

As for Vallejo, correct me if I'm wrong, but they produce a pretty extensive range of artists products, their miniature paints range being a slice of that (although I imagine still pretty sizeable). As a company I seriously doubt they felt their place in the market was being radically threatened or usurped by Army Painter (and I'm not trying to diss them, but they're a much smaller, more specialised company, we're talking about niches within niches here) such that they needed to pay someone to mount an assassination based on information that was *checks notes* true in the first.. place... uh.