Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ohhhhh good to know. No 4++ on the Raptors though! And if you go first it can be alpha struck.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ohhhhh good to know. No 4++ on the Raptors though! And if you go first it can be alpha struck.

I don't think DA are an issue. The 4++ Flyers would get eaten alive by rending claw flyrants. They might be an issue for Jorm who mostly won't have flyers.

The mass plasma is only an issue if they arn't getting tied up in melee, which we are the grand masters of. Yeah, for CP they can step out and shoot again... but only with what survives and only 1 unit. Not enough to be a threat.

I think we’ll see fewer of some 2W units, but not by much. DA will scarecrow a cup of Terminators out of the meta but every Primaris improvement will add a bucket. The 2W unit curve will continue to grow (maybe not in competitive), and when a Primaris Rhino and DP come out, it’ll spike hard.

Malanthrope gets a boost in usefulness. I’d expect DA Plasma lists to have a plan to take out Venoms. Not so easy with Mallie.

One possable build for DA will be to use Incepters(?) the ones who DS with Twin guns, they Can take Plasma. So that could be a way for DA to get plasma where they want it, when they want it.

How are peoples experiences with the trygon? In my experience it is not that good in melee as it used to be in say, 5th edition. They are also very wunerable to powerfists, from champions or dreadnoughts.

 Niiai wrote:
How are peoples experiences with the trygon? In my experience it is not that good in melee as it used to be in say, 5th edition. They are also very wunerable to powerfists, from champions or dreadnoughts.

Seems like the definition of glass hammer. It's massive scathing talons are pretty brutal against the right targets, but middling wounds and toughness and lack of an invuln make it fragile to return blows from high damage weapons. Fortunately it also has great utility as a transport of sorts for Devilgants and genestealers. At 170 pts it doesn't seem too overpriced. The trick to me is making sure you arrive with enough other threats at the same time to give them a chance to get in and do their work. And hope you roll well for the initial charge from deepstrike of course

It averages 5 hits at S7 and Dd6 (Plus whatever tail weapon). If you're fighting something important you can spend 1CP to reroll wounds. Against most things you should end up doing AT LEAST 3-7 damage on average, but doing 10+ is pretty high on the possible outcomes for a lot of targets.

My experience is that it arrives with dev gants and either eats firepower for the Flyrants, or it gets ignored and puts a lot of damage on whatever it touches. They're actually pretty fast with 9", and even when hitting on 5s they have enough attacks that you should get 2-3 hits, enough to do some damage.

They're definitely glass hammers, but when used in conjunction with flyrants they're pretty good. Definitely no good on their own.

A behemoth Tyrgon prime with the Sycthes of Tyran is an absolute beast.

6 attacks hitting on 3, getting extra swings on a 6, and STR8.

He looses his reroll 1's for the chance at extra attacks and +1 str, good trade in my opinion, as it makes him wound most vehicles on a 3 and T8 on a 4.

Scythes of Tyran are for MONSTROUS, not MASSIVE, sadly.

Ok Updates on the quick reference sheet.

Here is a updated page one and a first pass on page 2.



Looking for feed back. Anything you guys want me to try to fit on here? Anything you want to suggest for lay out? Whats good whats bad? (I see that one line is out of place on page 2, it's fixed already)

I feel like the Trygon Prime is a good investment over a normal Trygon if you’re using it for taxi service in a non Jorm list. It gives you the synapse to light things up without penalty and ignore morale, and you can keep a wall of gants to prevent assaults and then glorious intervention with the Prime. The 12 shot gun can get nasty too with the extra wound stratagem on certain targets.

In a Jorm list though you can just bring along a Broodlord for the synapse, and make it your warlord for the nasty Jorm trait.

I disagree. Flyrant have an 18" synapse, neurothropes can easily advance into 12" synapse. There's no need to pay 30 points to give a Trygon synapse (and 6 more ranged shots bit honestly, when has that mattered?). The only reason I MIGHT take a prime is to make it a character to give it a relic. But the only relic I would do that for is chameleonic skin and that is reserved for a flyrant.

OP updated with first and second page, full page and small format, images for the quick reference sheet. Still working on fillable PDF form versions of the document. But if you download GIMP (free photoshop) you can use the text tool to fill in the form in the mean time.

Also some other updates in the OP.

I wouldn't invest in a Trygon prime, it's just going to get annihilated anyway. I have never seen a Trygon live past the turn it popped out, in 8th. If Lictors weren't nerfed I would have switched to them completely.

That said I do model my Trygons to look like primes because they look cooler.

I've ran Tyrgons, Primes, and Tyrants together in several games now. I find Primes to not be worth the points for the upgrade. They just don't survive long enough for it to matter. In general they do damage if they make the turn 1 charge, otherwise they evaporate. When they make that charge they tend to kill whatever I charged. The turn things tunnel in I can always make sure a Neurothrope or Hive Tyrant (or Swarmy) is close enough to provide synapse. Tyrgons attract so much firepower and are frail enough that I cannot rely on the Prime to give synapse the turn after my drop arrives-he is normally dead by then.

When I used a Prime for my devilgaunts, I did like the flexability he gave me, but with how being out of synapse works now, there are very few situations were I can't work around it, either by having the 'gaunts near what I want to nuke or by bringing synapse over to take care of them.

Anyone experimented with en masse jormungandr ambushes? I haven’t actually tested physically deploying them yet, but I was thinking about using a squad of raveners to drop 2 stealer squads and a devgant bomb in the enemies face, along with some other immediate threats. Thoughts on this?

Current list plan is:
Brigade

HQs:
Neurothrope,
Broodlord (WL),
Winged Hive Tyrant w/ 2x devs

Elites:
Pyrovore,
Pyrovore,
Red Terror

Troops:
Genestealer x20 (Extended Carapace, 5x Acid Maw)
Genestealer x20 (Extended Carapace, 5x Acid Maw)
Termagants x30 (Devourers)
Termagants x10 (Fleshborers)
Hormagaunts x10
Rippers x3

Fast Attack:
Raveners x3
Mucolid
Mucolid

Heavy Support:
Biovore
Biovore
Mawloc (Toxin Sacs, Toxin Spike)

Fortification Network
Sporocyst (Deathspitters)
Sporocyst (Deathspitters)

Comes out to 1999 points. Basically I spend 4 CP to put both stealer squads, the devgants and the broodlord in reserve and then attempt to bamboozle the opponent with target saturation. Sporocysts, Mawloc and Biovores start to rack up mortal wounds, the devgants/tyrant strip away the bubble wrap and the genestealers sit pretty with their 3+ save and catalyst (on one squad), ready to move into position next turn. Yet to test it though, could be a total dud list

I'd drop the mawloc for a second unit of raveners and 2 units of rippers.


You don't have enough drops on the table to deep strike the units you want. with 2 more rippers on the table you will have 11 on the table and 11 deep strikers. 2x ravener, 2x stealers, termies, broodlord, pyrovore, red terror, WHT, 2x sporocyst

On the same topic as that Jorm idea, I've been thinking about using 3 mawlocs to block an enemy's ability to engage my forces. You could force and opponent to stay around 9" away from your deep strikers with any counter-assault units they have. Even after they shoot down 3 mawlocs, they should still need something like a 7" charge, since they can't move through the mawlocs.

Well what ends up happening is your raveners come in about 12" away.
The Devourer termagaunts and the pyrovore go in front of them, completely screening them and anything behind them from assault while blowing their double tap load into whatever chaff or lighter high damage infantry you want to weaken.
The stealers are behind the raveners on either flank, and with a 3+/5+ are rather durable. You can either catalyst one of the stealer squads or the gaunts depending on how much anti-infantry shooting your opponent has.
Turn 2 your basically free to advance and charge with both stealer units.

I havent had the chance to put my jorm list to the test yet. I just got some more warriors/hive guard in the mail. Hoping to have it all built to test this weekend. Il let the thread know how it goes if i do.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
I'd drop the mawloc for a second unit of raveners and 2 units of rippers.


You don't have enough drops on the table to deep strike the units you want. with 2 more rippers on the table you will have 11 on the table and 11 deep strikers. 2x ravener, 2x stealers, termies, broodlord, pyrovore, red terror, WHT, 2x sporocyst

Ah sorry, forgot to mention that the rippers start on the table, as hidden as possible to prevent surprise tabling.
On the board: Neurothrope, Horms, Terms, Rippers, Pyro, Pyro, Mucolid, Mucolid, Biovore, Biovore (ten total)
Off the board: Broodlord, Tyrant, Stealers, Stealers, Devgants, Red Terror, Raveners, Mawloc, Sporocyst, Sporocyst (ten total)

If I drop the mawloc I’d need to take another HS to keep the brigade and I don’t have a third biovore :( Without the brigade I don’t get enough CP for the tunnel shenanigans

Can one Mawlock bring multiple units via Jormungandr Stratagem in different turns and at different places?
I mean if you let him deep strike first turn, reburrow 2nd turn and deep strike again 3rd turn?

 Astmeister wrote:
Can one Mawlock bring multiple units via Jormungandr Stratagem in different turns and at different places?
I mean if you let him deep strike first turn, reburrow 2nd turn and deep strike again 3rd turn?

I don’t see anything in the wording preventing it so go for it!

C4790M wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
Can one Mawlock bring multiple units via Jormungandr Stratagem in different turns and at different places?
I mean if you let him deep strike first turn, reburrow 2nd turn and deep strike again 3rd turn?

I don’t see anything in the wording preventing it so go for it!

Cool. It could be worth it in Maelstrom missions, where you want to place your troops all over the board.

Kind of a waste to use a Mawloc for that. Maybe raveners so they can at least shoot stuff while they pop up in the middle of nowhere.

Rippers are the best last minute deep strikers anyway.

Jormungandr Pyrovores starting on the board?

 lindsay40k wrote:
Jormungandr Pyrovores starting on the board?

Nice way to tell Alpha Legion to "Stay off my lawn!"

I'm getting everything prepared to run Swarmlord + 'stealers + devilgants in a Jormundr drop. I'm looking at running 2 'stealer squads and a big (25+) Termagant squad. I'm wondering if it is feasible to bring one of the 'stealer squads and the 'gants in with the same unit of Raveners. Do they fit? should I run 4 models in that Ravener squad?

babelfish wrote:
I'm getting everything prepared to run Swarmlord + 'stealers + devilgants in a Jormundr drop. I'm looking at running 2 'stealer squads and a big (25+) Termagant squad. I'm wondering if it is feasible to bring one of the 'stealer squads and the 'gants in with the same unit of Raveners. Do they fit? should I run 4 models in that Ravener squad?

I'm pretty sure I test fit 40 stealers and 30 gants around 3x40mm bases, 2" apart, but why not just place them down and check it yourself?

 Astmeister wrote:
Can one Mawlock bring multiple units via Jormungandr Stratagem in different turns and at different places?
I mean if you let him deep strike first turn, reburrow 2nd turn and deep strike again 3rd turn?

If you drop a single Mawloc don't expect it to be able to reburrow. The only time I've ever got one to pop up twice in a game was when I dropped a trygon and a bunch of other stuff in tyrannocytes with it and swamped them and even then they had a good go at bringing it down. In isolation it's a bullet magnet for units designed to kill T6 and above units and won't put up much of a show against weapons that do more than single wounds.