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 Tyranid Horde wrote:
I won't be updating any time soon, not when I'm almost finished painting my own squad of Warp Spiders.

My aspect army is pretty much done save for some Shadow Spectres.

Thought I'd ask for some advice. I'm looking to pick up a Forgeworld vehicle or two and I'm curious as to what's hot right now? I know rules will likely change in the future but I'd like to know what FW craftworlds vehicle has generally been pretty good and also fun? I'm also tempted by rounding out my army with a titan but one of those is unlikely to see a game.

Regarding FW units.

Wraithseer
Hornet
Shadow Spectres
Lynx

After a couple months of playing with 2 x 8 Wraithblades and 2 Wraithseers in an army, I dialed back the assault to add in more shooting. Stark difference! I faced off against AdMech in two games and in both, my army struggled to hold objectives. The army had gone from scoring 40-45 Primary objective points down to 20. The ability to absorb fire and contest objectives disappeared and improved ability to shoot only led to my army getting exposed to return fire, which had me picking up units pretty quick. This was the issue I had months ago which led me to using the Wraithblades and these games were a great reminder of why I did so.

Sarigar,

Did you replace the Wraithblades with Wraithguard or with some other Eldar infantry with ranged fire?

CB

The list changed a bit, but I added more Shadow Spectres and a unit of 3 Hornets as the biggest alterations.

Hi guys,

new on these forums but playing and following the elder meta pretty intensely for the last couple of months. I've been building a lot of stuff and testing a lot of lists.

Wraith stuff, heavy psyker detachment (with smite-seer, supersmite from conclave, smite from spirit seer, children of prophecy), melee variants (oh, I love those) with hunter of relics, spears, wraith blades and even banshees. guardian bombs, serpent spam, hyper mobile off of hawks, spears and various jet bikes, assurmen setups, fire and fade variants and all sorts of jank.

only thing I haven't tried yet is that dire avenger experiment I want to do; 3-5x 8man squads with hail of doom and avenging strikes and then 3x fire prisms. idk why not, actually, as I own the models and can see they have good datasheets.

many of those things can be combined mostly by using a battalion and a patrol detachment. Few, strong (as strong as eldar go these days) units with good movement.

Alas, tomorrow im playing vs orks and I've been looking into that brigade build for a long time now. Now I feel its time because between green tide and da jump I simply can't see myself keeping those green beasts away from an elite shooting army no matter how well it manuvers. Melee seems hopeless against them too as those spears, banshees or whatever will just be swarmed and killed the turn after they hit.

so therefore I've come up with this build that seeks to play the mission, is able to screen, take actions, deep strike, be all over the place to contest board control. It has pretty good psychic (I cut away a second farseer to make the fire and fade 10 man firedragon squad instead. they ar so good with swift step), can deal with armor, shoot a lot of shuriken at hordes, shift area of focus very easily and lastly, except for the ten man fire dragon blob, it maxes out on crafters rerolls which is never a bad thing with eldar : )

nb. The build used to have star cannons on all the available slots and I might go back to that, but I just feel shurikens are almost as good. especially vs orks.


++ Brigade Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [103 PL, 12CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Hail of Doom

Detachment Command Cost

+ HQ +

Farseer [6 PL, 115pts]: 0. Smite, 1. Guide, 2. Doom, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade
. Faolchu's Wing

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 65pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, 5. Focus Will, 6: Seer of the Shifting Vector, Shuriken Pistol, Warlord, Witchblade

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 65pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, 5. Focus Will, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

+ Elites +

Fire Dragons [12 PL, 230pts]
. 9x Fire Dragon: 9x Fusion Gun, 9x Melta Bombs
. Fire Dragon Exarch: Fusion Gun
. . Exarch Power: Swiftstep

Striking Scorpions [3 PL, 65pts]
. 4x Striking Scorpion: 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Scorpion Chainsword, 4x Shuriken Pistol
. Striking Scorpion Exarch: Scorpion Chainsword, Shuriken Pistol
. . Exarch Power: scorpions bite

Striking Scorpions [3 PL, 65pts]
. 4x Striking Scorpion: 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Scorpion Chainsword, 4x Shuriken Pistol
. Striking Scorpion Exarch: Scorpion Chainsword, Shuriken Pistol
. . Exarch Power: Scorpions bite

+ Fast Attack +

Vypers [3 PL, 60pts]
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

Vypers [3 PL, 60pts]
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

Vypers [3 PL, 60pts]
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Falcon [8 PL, 135pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Falcon [8 PL, 145pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

Falcon [8 PL, 145pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

War Walkers [4 PL, 60pts]
. War Walker: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

War Walkers [4 PL, 60pts]
. War Walker: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 170pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Cannon

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 170pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Cannon

++ Total: [103 PL, 12CP, 2,000pts] ++



Any thoughts or tips are much welcomed.

best regards,

Tobias

You can use Forewarning after Da Jump is used; check under the Rare Rules section for repositioned units. However, you really don't have a unit that can take advantage of the stratagem.

Be careful regarding deep strike if you face off against a horde style build. It is not terribly difficult to position unit to zone out most of the table to where you can't place the unit.

If you have Shadow Spectres, it would be a unit I'd highly recommend when facing an army with large units, such as Boyz Mobs. A single unit of 10 Spectres puts out 60 shots against a 30 strong Boyz mob. Combine with some type of reroll dice mechanic and it likely will remove a unit even with a 5++ from the Mek with KFF.

Example:
It takes some thought with positioning, but if Orks go first, Da Jump is likely to be used turn one; try to anticipate where it will be placed and ensure you have safely placed a unit of Shadow Spectres and the Farseer. This is where Phantasm is very handy. Even without Guide/Doom cast, you should get 40 hits, 26 wounds, and likely no save as they will be outside the KFF range. Or, 17 casualties if within KFF range.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.

thanks for the reply, sarigar.

Yeah, i dont have that unit in my list, sadly. Da jump is a big problem. If they swarm me with it I die and my deniers won't be able to help t1. Forewarned is a great tool here. problem is that even if I had the big unit of shadow spectres I wouldn't dare to let them stand anywhere out in the open to be used with forewarned. they would just die to burnabombers t1 if I did and they are too good to sacrifice like that before the game starts.

actually, im going to put everything into the tanks during deploy as I am pretty sure he is bringing two burnas. I have no idea how to protect my two bike warlocks.

the wave serpent with the dragons in it should be my center piece and can hopefully draw tons of fire and delete a unit every turn. maybe not. but they'll be a threat to his heavier stuff, mek guns and such. I slabbed on a vectored engine for the minus 1 to hit. that will make orks hit on sixes mostly.

what do you think about going so heavy on shurikens? it used to be star cannons, but I figured why actually? with shuriken cannons I can advance every turn with more than half my army, Its stil s6 and I won't waste all those points on paying for d3 dam that doesn't make a difference anyway mostly. plus its one third more shots vs that horde build I might see.

the obvious lack here is spears. but im just reluctant with going 8 spears into a blob of 2x30 boys. they are so frail on the next turn..

I would rethink a few areas of your list after playing a couple of Ork games recently.

First off, Hail of Doom is great, but if he's playing Goffs, almost his entire army will have a 6+ invuln, making that -1 AP pretty redundant. It's also only for 12" range or less, by which point, you're in combat territory.

Green tide is scary but it can be avoided. Remember that he can only activate it when his squad is as half strength or less. Consider, shooting at the unit over two turns - stop when it gets to half strength and then finish the following round. If you leave even one ork left, the strat happens and you're in trouble.

For Da Jump, Sarigar has it covered off, but be aware of where you place your farseer as it'll need to be close to the firing unit.

Consider finding the points for Aeldari missile launchers on your walkers and vehicles. They're blast so on those big units, you're getting auto 6 shots rather than D6 or the 3 you would gen from shuri cannons - missiles are also hitting at AP-1 - and you also have the starshot option for heavier units such as trukks, deff dredds etc. It's a cracking all round heavy weapon. Personally i would ditch the flimsy fire dragons and in exchange, kit out your vypers, serpents etc with them. They'll hurt.

Last but not least - for horde armies, smite and executioner are your friends! Guide is awesome, BUT if you ditched Hail of Doom in place of Expert Crafters, you're getting some free rerolls and it opens up a space to take executioner.

That's just me - I will be interested to see how your game goes either way! Hope my input has been of some use

 Crafter91 wrote:
I would rethink a few areas of your list after playing a couple of Ork games recently.

First off, Hail of Doom is great, but if he's playing Goffs, almost his entire army will have a 6+ invuln, making that -1 AP pretty redundant. It's also only for 12" range or less, by which point, you're in combat territory.

Green tide is scary but it can be avoided. Remember that he can only activate it when his squad is as half strength or less. Consider, shooting at the unit over two turns - stop when it gets to half strength and then finish the following round. If you leave even one ork left, the strat happens and you're in trouble.

For Da Jump, Sarigar has it covered off, but be aware of where you place your farseer as it'll need to be close to the firing unit.

Consider finding the points for Aeldari missile launchers on your walkers and vehicles. They're blast so on those big units, you're getting auto 6 shots rather than D6 or the 3 you would gen from shuri cannons - missiles are also hitting at AP-1 - and you also have the starshot option for heavier units such as trukks, deff dredds etc. It's a cracking all round heavy weapon. Personally i would ditch the flimsy fire dragons and in exchange, kit out your vypers, serpents etc with them. They'll hurt.

Last but not least - for horde armies, smite and executioner are your friends! Guide is awesome, BUT if you ditched Hail of Doom in place of Expert Crafters, you're getting some free rerolls and it opens up a space to take executioner.

That's just me - I will be interested to see how your game goes either way! Hope my input has been of some use

Deathskulls have the 6++. Goffs have exploding 6s in melee.

All Orks can take a KFF for a 5++ in an aura, though.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Deathskulls have the 6++. Goffs have exploding 6s in melee.

Ah, my mistake - that's the one. I get those two mixed up!

The Burna Bomma is a challenge regarding the Warlock Skyrunners. Possibly deploy them apart so the Bommas need to go toward separate directions if they want to take out those models. The Bomma is a 155 point model and would likely move towards the largest group of models to inflict mortal wounds. Spread the threats out, screen out areas so the model cannot be placed in key locations.

AML is definitely worth looking at over Shuriken Cannons, barring points issues.

Thanks for the good stuff, guys. Much appreciated. AMLs are super good. But they cost twice as much and then im back to more standard eldar bataleons with few good units like i usually play Them.

Also, with s4 I’m not sure it’s that much better vs orks. But prolly a bit. I often see myself ending up starshotting with them vs t4 anyway. S6 with the shuriken seems perfect. But maybe I’m wrong.

Also, I love that the war walkers, vipers and serpents will all be advancing all the time with shurikens.

Yeah, hail is not good enough. Should be masterful shots probably. I have crafters, tho doesn’t the first post state that? My mistake then. This list is build for that trait. Except for the outlier 10 Man dragon squad all other units seek to exploit that trait. Ok, star cannons are better for this with fewer shots and more dam but still.

That dragon squad could be swooped for a spears unit, but I think it has merrit. And the list lacks anti-armor shots. Those orks will have to deal with it and it’s not that easy to get rid off. With vectored they’ll be hitting on fives and sixes.

I had a second Farseer, a executionor seer on bike, (and 7 banshees) in there instead of the dragons and yeah it’s probably better. I just feel if you run 4 psykers ypu need children of prophecy to reliably make Them count.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
ok, guys. how about this?


++ Brigade Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [93 PL, 12CP, 1,995pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Hail of Doom

Detachment Command Cost

+ HQ +

Farseer [6 PL, 115pts]: 0. Smite, 1. Guide, 2. Doom, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade
. Faolchu's Wing

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 65pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, 5. Focus Will, 6: Seer of the Shifting Vector, Shuriken Pistol, Warlord, Witchblade

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 65pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, 5. Focus Will, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

+ Elites +

Howling Banshees [6 PL, 150pts]
. 9x Howling Banshee: 9x Power Sword, 9x Shuriken Pistol
. Howling Banshee Exarch: Shuriken Pistol & Power Sword
. . Exarch Power: War Shout

Striking Scorpions [3 PL, 65pts]
. 4x Striking Scorpion: 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Scorpion Chainsword, 4x Shuriken Pistol
. Striking Scorpion Exarch: Scorpion Chainsword, Shuriken Pistol
. . Exarch Power: Stalker

Striking Scorpions [3 PL, 65pts]
. 4x Striking Scorpion: 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Scorpion Chainsword, 4x Shuriken Pistol
. Striking Scorpion Exarch: Scorpion Chainsword, Shuriken Pistol
. . Exarch Power: Stalker

+ Fast Attack +

Vypers [3 PL, 70pts]
. Vyper: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Shuriken Cannon

Vypers [3 PL, 70pts]
. Vyper: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Shuriken Cannon

Vypers [3 PL, 70pts]
. Vyper: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Shuriken Cannon

Warp Spiders [4 PL, 90pts]
. 4x Warp Spider: 4x Death Spinner
. Warp Spider Exarch: Two Death Spinners
. . Exarch Power: Iron Resolve

+ Heavy Support +

Falcon [8 PL, 155pts]: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

Falcon [8 PL, 155pts]: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

War Walkers [4 PL, 80pts]
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher

War Walkers [4 PL, 80pts]
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 180pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Vectored Engines

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 190pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Twin Aeldari Missile Launcher

++ Total: [93 PL, 12CP, 1,995pts] ++


the lack of mobility is compensated for with a unit of spiders to secure engage t1. the 10 banshees seem stupid straight up, but I had to lock in a slot of elites to compensate for the missing dragons and they fit on that wave serpent that still has mobility. i love all the missiles, but I still see a lot of merit in the first build. more flexibility. better movement.

I think that's a much better list for an Ork game, but ultimately it's about what you feel most confident with.

I would always go for number of shots over power with horde armies. I understand your feelings about movement with heavy weapons, but against an Ork list, i wouldn't necessarily want to advance too much anyway. Hold back for a turn or two and fire. Don't help him get into combat. Weaken units and focus on your secondaries, then move out for primaries from turn 2/3.

Let us know how you get on!

yeah, exactly. score engage, scramblers and a third. Get position. try to screen da jump and go to work from my backline. I miss my third falcon now. maybe that blob of banshees should actually be a huge blob of something I can use with forewarned. I just dont know what! maybe ten dire avengers? or 20 guardians. nah, too short range. hmm..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also, I dont think hell go all horde. he will bring 3 mek guns, 2x30 boys, 3 dreads, a few truks packed with tank bustas. maybe 2 burnas. some mega nobz with saws. defkoptas. he is death skulls so he actually likes to try and shoot something with those rerolls.

On the shuriken thing: is 3 shots of s6 really that much worse than 6 shots of s4? yeah, probably. and the missile range is better.

btw: your right in regards to movement. I dont want to push too much, actually. but I can't let him take all the objectives either. tried to out gun them once with my crimson fists. just stayed back, secured back objectives and tried to dakka him off the board and pick up mid field points later. not possible. but ok, elder are faster. so maybe.

damn this matchup has me all twisted up! im a right in assuming that orgs are favored here?

Sounds like a similar list to what I played against and AMLs worked a treat.

Tip that worked for me to deal with his hard hitters if you're concerned; deploy your first three units on one side of the table - something good like your wave serpents that he will want to target with his mek guns etc. Bait him to deploy and then phantasm to the other side of the board.

People often mirror what you're deploying. If you deploy very heavily on one side of the board, they do the same to try and match your fire power. The Phantasm then throws off everything he has just placed.

It may even open up the opportunity to score a centrefield objective on the other side, and it'll mean he has to move around to get the best use of his guns.

GOD I love sneaky Eldar tactics!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Scoundrel80 wrote:


damn this matchup has me all twisted up! im a right in assuming that orgs are favored here?

I don't think so. For now, Orks are playing with an 8th Ed codex, same as we are. Eldar hit harder, have better BS and in most cases have better saves.

Your biggest issue is being outnumbered in close combat, so avoid it for as long as you can. Keep tabs on the number of Boyz he has left in each unit. If you've killed 14 and don't think you'll be able to finish off the remaining 16, DON'T TRY.

If you fail to wipe the entire unit, he will Green tide you. Wait until the next turn and then finish them then - even if it means giving away an objective for a round.

Score your primaries late - don't get put off if he scored them well in his first two turns. Once you've whittled down his units, they'll be yours to start taking from 3 onwards.

yeah. sounds good. In regards to that sentinel unit to use with forewarned.. maybe I should put the two war walkers in a single unit and place them far back with the farseer. thats 24 shoots of off forewarned when he pops da jump : )

Scoundrel80 wrote:
yeah. sounds good. In regards to that sentinel unit to use with forewarned.. maybe I should put the two war walkers in a single unit and place them far back with the farseer. thats 24 shoots of off forewarned when he pops da jump : )

I keep a farseer near my Dark Reapers for guide purposes but it would help for this reason too. Which is another good point, if they're guided the turn before, they will still be guided during his turn. Don't forget!

yeah, but problem with reapers is, that they won't be outside their car and within line of sigt t1 vs that army. The burnas will wipe them if they do and thats 3-400 points gone right there.

so in my search for a matching gunnery unit to spit tons of shots with forewarned that can potentially also survive a bombing run, 2-3 war walkers was the best I could find. let me know if you have anything better : )

Hope you have good luck against Orks. Lost against them today in my local league. Such a tricky army for me to figure out how to play against.

 Sarigar wrote:
Hope you have good luck against Orks. Lost against them today in my local league. Such a tricky army for me to figure out how to play against.

My Ork OP says he wants a 'competitive' rematch following our last game. Says he played his last list for fun more than anything so wants another crack with a stronger list.

What was it that tripped you up? Might give me an idea of what to expect.

What did you take in your list?

There are several challenges I face with Orks.

I have not played against them much which leads to not being familiar with their strengths and weaknesses.

Terrain was a bit too light. Whoever went first was going to have a significant advantage. It happened to be Orks this time. Easy fix for next game.

The stratagem to bring back a Boyz mob. If you shoot at a large unit, two things need to be in place (1) be prepared to overkill it so it cannot be brought back. (2) If you opt to shoot at a large unit and know you can't destroy the unit, ensure the Ork player does not have 3 CP.

9 inch charges from deep strike seem long, but Orks get to reroll one or both dice. This should not be underestimated.

Mek Guns are really points efficient, but this also had a lot to do with having light terrain.

Game wise, I opted to take a Farseer Skyrunner and Warlock Skyrunner, something I rarely ever do. Then, I misplayed them and separated them, losing the option of Seer Council and also did not take Focus Will. I had multiple cast failures in the first two turns which really cannot happen for Craftworlds to compete. Wraithblades without Protect and Fortune are not overly useful when they get whittled down to become fairly ineffective before reaching assault on turn 2. Definitely going back to the Farseer and Warlock Conclave I typically run.

Should have placed the Shadow Spectre unit in reserve. This was a key unit and lost three to the kamikaze Ork bomber. Then, I had little to target on the bottom of turn one. Turn 2, they were destroyed. Terrible decision making on my part.

Dice rolls are dice rolls, but not killing Ghaz in a single turn, which I had set up, didn't help matters much.

 Sarigar wrote:


The stratagem to bring back a Boyz mob. If you shoot at a large unit, two things need to be in place (1) be prepared to overkill it so it cannot be brought back. (2) If you opt to shoot at a large unit and know you can't destroy the unit, ensure the Ork player does not have 3 CP.

Like i said before, i have avoided this by killing the unit over two turns. As long as you don't drop the unit below half strength, he can't use the strat.

 Sarigar wrote:

Mek Guns are really points efficient, but this also had a lot to do with having light terrain.

I like the mek guns but have never had difficulty destroying them. BS is also pretty naff so Ork shooty units have never been a big worry for me.

 Sarigar wrote:

I had multiple cast failures in the first two turns which really cannot happen for Craftworlds to compete.

WORST DAY EVER.

 Sarigar wrote:

Dice rolls are dice rolls, but not killing Ghaz in a single turn, which I had set up, didn't help matters much.

Ghaz's ability to cap wounds per phase always makes this tough. Sounds like a rough game generally but I'm sure you'll do it differently next time.

Losing the first turn in an Ork game alone will put you at a fast disadvantage. Commiserations!

I forgot to add the deployment zone being another factor. Dawn of War is my least favorite. However, with 20/20 hindsight, I should have put three units on each flank, then use Phantasm to build a refused flank. This is the one deployment zone where Phantasm can pay off in a big way.

I should not be at a disadvantage by simply going second. Conversely, either should my opponent. This was a terrain issue we decided on. Both of us recognized how important getting first turn would be and which was a huge indicator the terrain was poorly laid out. Easy fix for next game.

Trying to strategically drop a unit to 15 models to prevent use of the stratagem is a bit more difficult than simply stating to do so. 3 x 30 Boyz which will be in assault on turn 2 adds further complications. 15 Boys with Warpath cast on them is still 60 attacks. With Goffs (what I faced), throw in exploding 6s. So, dropping a unit down to 50% is not an appealing prospect. Craftworld does not have much that can withstand that many attacks on the charge without significant degradation.

My opponent deep struck Ghaz, which I felt was strange until he hit me on turn 2 in assault (reroll one or both dice for charge is huge). That meant I could do nothing until after Ghaz got to hit first. Then, in my turn 2, I set up to one turn kill Ghaz, but dice rolls went wonky. Ghaz then crushed another unit. I found this way more useful than other opponents who foot slogged Ghaz across the board. He was very easy to pick out and avoid.

Mek Gunz can be swingy, but they hit on 4s with exploding 6s and generally get a 5++. 40-65 points on this platform is fairly efficient as I'm trading down if I'm shooting Dark Reapers or even War Walkers at them.

In the end, it was a solid lesson against an experienced opponent. He outplayed me and I've played against him several times with his Dark Angels. I'll chalk it up as gaining more experience. This league finishes up with a 2000 point tourney in a few weeks, then I go to a two day event afterwards. All is good.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/05/27/5-of-the-biggest-points-drops-from-chapter-approved-2021/

How do people feel about wraithguard at 35pts?

Personaly feel too expensive as wraithblades are 37

Not enough for me to field Wraithguard.

I already field 10-20 Wraithblades, so it gives me 30-60 points. Not a whole lot, but gives me more options.

So the game godt postponed and is going down tomorrow morning.

how about this list? I've gone back to the firedragon bus. I just want to try it out. 40k is also about that : ) they will hopefully soar through his line getting hit only on 5-6 typically with vectored and delete a unit per turn. Maybe they'll make him make bad decisions.

then I dropped the third falcon to get 3 war walkers instead of 2. gave them 2 AML each and I put them in one unit to abuse forewarned..

so I still have super high speed on vipers and serpents and have a new long range flexible gunnery line unit with the missile walkers.

bad thing is that I dont abuse crafters as much due to the war walkers being together. and that my reason to actually play a brigade is diminishing as I dont exploit all the slots that was my initial plan to combine with crafters. What do you think?


++ Brigade Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [99 PL, 12CP, 1,997pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Masterful Shots

Detachment Command Cost

+ HQ +

Farseer [6 PL, 120pts]: 0. Smite, 1. Guide, 2. Doom, Shuriken Pistol, Singing Spear
. Faolchu's Wing

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 65pts]: 5. Focus Will, 5. Quicken/Restrain, 6: Seer of the Shifting Vector, Shuriken Pistol, Warlord, Witchblade

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 65pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, 5. Focus Will, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

+ Elites +

Fire Dragons [12 PL, 207pts]
. 8x Fire Dragon: 8x Fusion Gun, 8x Melta Bombs
. Fire Dragon Exarch: Fusion Gun
. . Exarch Power: Swiftstep

Striking Scorpions [3 PL, 65pts]
. 4x Striking Scorpion: 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Scorpion Chainsword, 4x Shuriken Pistol
. Striking Scorpion Exarch: Scorpion Chainsword, Shuriken Pistol
. . Exarch Power: Stalker

Striking Scorpions [3 PL, 65pts]
. 4x Striking Scorpion: 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Scorpion Chainsword, 4x Shuriken Pistol
. Striking Scorpion Exarch: Scorpion Chainsword, Shuriken Pistol
. . Exarch Power: Stalker

+ Fast Attack +

Vypers [3 PL, 60pts]
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

Vypers [3 PL, 60pts]
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

Vypers [3 PL, 60pts]
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Falcon [8 PL, 145pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

Falcon [8 PL, 145pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

War Walkers [12 PL, 240pts]
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 190pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Star Engines, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Vectored Engines

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 180pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Vectored Engines

++ Total: [99 PL, 12CP, 1,997pts] ++

 Argive wrote:
How do people feel about wraithguard at 35pts?

Personaly feel too expensive as wraithblades are 37

Every point counts. Since I use five Wraithguard it is 15 points more than I had yesterday. Still too costly when compared to their competition.

My two cents,

CB

ok sorry for spamming. Went back to bataleon. allowed me to drop a scorpions unit to make it 5x6 dire avengers for a bit more oomph with bladestorm and moar missile launchers. Masterfull shots now.


++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [110 PL, 12CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Masterful Shots

Detachment Command Cost

+ HQ +

Farseer Skyrunner [7 PL, 135pts]: 0. Smite, 1. Guide, 2. Doom, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 65pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, 5. Focus Will, 6: Seer of the Shifting Vector, Shuriken Pistol, Warlord, Witchblade

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 65pts]: 5. Focus Will, 5. Quicken/Restrain, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [5 PL, 66pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 5x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [5 PL, 66pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 5x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [5 PL, 66pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 5x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [5 PL, 66pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 5x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [5 PL, 66pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 5x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

+ Elites +

Fire Dragons [12 PL, 230pts]
. 9x Fire Dragon: 9x Fusion Gun, 9x Melta Bombs
. Fire Dragon Exarch: Fusion Gun
. . Exarch Power: Crack Shot

Striking Scorpions [3 PL, 65pts]
. 5x Striking Scorpion: 5x Plasma Grenades, 5x Scorpion Chainsword, 5x Shuriken Pistol

+ Fast Attack +

Vypers [3 PL, 60pts]
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

Vypers [3 PL, 60pts]
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

Vypers [3 PL, 60pts]
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Falcon [8 PL, 155pts]: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

Falcon [8 PL, 155pts]: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

War Walkers [12 PL, 240pts]
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 190pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Star Engines, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Vectored Engines

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 190pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Star Engines, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Vectored Engines

++ Total: [110 PL, 12CP, 2,000pts] ++

Scoundrel80 wrote:
ok sorry for spamming. Went back to bataleon. allowed me to drop a scorpions unit to make it 5x6 dire avengers for a bit more oomph with bladestorm and moar missile launchers. Masterfull shots now.

Masterful shots is the only thing tripping me up here - i can't see it benefitting you all too much. An ork army isn't the type to hide behind cover - it'll just march forward and charge.

I would be tempted by students of vaul - you have a lot of vehicles so to have all of them regain a lost wound every turn will be useful.

Superior shurikens might be useful for your Dires since you have a lot of them - the extra range will help get some extra shots in early.

Failing that - diviners of fate for a 6+ invun is good or if you want to ensure your powers have a better chance of being successful, children of prophesy is useful to take. Guaranteed smite and no chance of a snake eyes perils.

Overall though your list is looking very promising!

Have you thought about your secondaries? And which units you'll use to fulfil them?

Hi guys.

Just finished the game and it went amazing. The list was bonkers. straight up. Everything just came together.

And yeah, good catch. Masterful didn't trigger once. vs a broad meta its still probably the best but vs orgs its just not relevant. And especially not once he knows : )

i was able to hide well as he had first turn. had farseer and a squad of 3x AML walkers in the center to deal with deep strikes and just shoot. he one shotted the one he could get LOS on and that was really annoying. he raced up with right ork blob advancing 10 and looked well. he da jumped 10 other bois up on the center objektive and managed to take out a viper too, I think. but then he hesitated with his left big blob. that was a mistake I think.

then my turn came and I was able to get the whole psychic thing going with seer council into force of will, jinx, doom onto his 28 man boys. guide on the 2 remaining walkers. then I just focused the advancing bois down and managed to kill the ten man in the center too. my three psykers killed the last one with their underslung shurikens.

so no green tide and with his last blob out of the game at that point he needed da jump to work and missed id. then all his tractor cannons (auto hit was a good call from him and they did some dam on my tanks t1) whiffed completely and then I could just mop up really.

my left wave serpent couldn't avoid the 3d6 charge from his war boss on bike and his 5attacks would have killed it had I not rolled 3 sixes for amour save. so It limped, fell back with feigned and the boss then got killed by a falcon and shuriken fire from the limping serpent.

he deep struck with some stuff and those 2 remainging walkers blasted the living hell out of everyone and their mothers. I can't imagine how it would have been if the third hadn't died early. Thanks for the advice on that unit. Just bonkers.

he succeeded in deeping in some commandoes that I couldn't shoot at with the walkers and they almost killed a warlock. I rolled wel, tho and he lived with one w. he then fell back and my opponent was unlucky with the cut em down, very frustrating for im, and then I just regrouped, zipped in som vipers and tanks and cut the attackers down. same thing with the war boss. even if he had killed that serpent I would just have flown the second falcon over and killed him still, I believe. Felt like the list always had an answer.

The fire dragons performed well too. They only melted a dead dread, 1mek gun and 2 defkoptas, but was a constant threat and just a nasty presence to get down.

That vectored/shuriken serpent build is really good. I even gave them star engine to be all over the place but I would prolly save the ten points in a more serious game. Maybe not actually, idk.

the vipers ended up filling very different roles. 2 where back line holders at some point, one scored engage deep behind enemy lines and they did some good killing in general. they even popped a mek gun. s6 is good.

with this build you can have everything but 6 avengers in cars t1. thats so amazingly good.

going to 6 man avenger squads feels so good with bladestorm. they just pack that more oomph and often take out chaff and help clear objectives. they were SO good. Id love testing 8 mans with avenging strikes and maybe hail of doom..

I love how the falcons perform with AML and shuriken cannon. spirit stones and six avengers in them. Such a versatile package.

scorpions came down, did scramblers and just stuck in there with stalker. didn't do much but plinked some pistol fire and engaged on all fronts. I mean, for him to actually dedicate the fire and shoot at that 5 man squad. so annoying.

the psyker package is a bit boring. no executioner/smite beast, no fortune. No spirit seer for full smite, no conclave. but it was lean and strong support utility.

the army could zip all over the board all the time. had he gone full horde that peony wouldn't have been as good, but in this game it was and it felt very strong all in all.

I feel its the best list I've played in a long time. so weird to not have 9 spears, 10 blades or one of the classic centerpieces. the army has no melee at all. instead, it relies on feinged retreat and mobile fire power. I guess you could just exchange the firedragosn/serpent for a big blob of spears or some wraith axes or what ever.

also, compared to having 3x nightspinners or 3x fire prisms (I haven't played that much my self but iver seen other people do it all the time) I feel my gunnery package of 2x falcons and 3xAML WWs was much more flexible. probably less punchy too, though. but they fit well with the rather awkward punch of that dragons unit. it just worked.

Thanks again for all the inspiration.