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Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain




On the Internet

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 Redemption wrote:
Coldfyre at B&C caught this bit in the fluff of the Ultramarines Supplement:



Another likely upcoming Primaris unit called the Hellfury. From the progression shown it looks to be fire support infantry squad, possibly in Gravis armour.
Be it that there are no references to the Suppressors in that passage, I am inclined to believe Hellfury was an early name for the Suppressor.

Suppressors are likley part of the 8th Company instead of the 9th since, you know, jump pack.
   
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Legendary Master of the Chapter





Chicago, Illinois

Unlikely, Suppressors are more of a fast attack option than heavy support. Hellfury sounds like a minigun.
   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

Suppressors wear the fire support badge which puts them in the 9th company not 8th.

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 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Suppressors wear the fire support badge which puts them in the 9th company not 8th.

But supressors are a fast attack option? Like Inceptors?
   
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On the Internet

I forgot the Fire Support Badge.

So 9th, or Battle Company then.

Did Suppressors even get a.lore entry in the codex?
   
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Sioux Falls, SD

 Asherian Command wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Suppressors wear the fire support badge which puts them in the 9th company not 8th.

But supressors are a fast attack option? Like Inceptors?
which has no bearing on what company the units belong to.

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 ClockworkZion wrote:
I forgot the Fire Support Badge.

So 9th, or Battle Company then.

Did Suppressors even get a.lore entry in the codex?


I thought they were a phobos armor?
   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I forgot the Fire Support Badge.

So 9th, or Battle Company then.

Did Suppressors even get a.lore entry in the codex?
yes they did. It is in the Fire Support section.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Asherian Command wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
I forgot the Fire Support Badge.

So 9th, or Battle Company then.

Did Suppressors even get a.lore entry in the codex?


I thought they were a phobos armor?
no they are not they are an omnis armor. And again it makes no difference. Inceptors and Aggressors are both in gravis armor but one is close support the other one is fire support. Incursors are Close Support but are Troops.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/08/20 15:55:50


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thats strange, wonder why they put them in the fast attack option? Because they have always have the role they occupy be what they are in the space marine chapter.
   
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Not that Aggressors being fire support makes much sense. They're guys with with power fists and short ranged guns or flamers. How are they conceptually different than Assault Centurions which are close support?

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Sioux Falls, SD

 Asherian Command wrote:
thats strange, wonder why they put them in the fast attack option? Because they have always have the role they occupy be what they are in the space marine chapter.
That's how it used to be, but things changed as early as the last codex. Aggressors are Fire Support, not Veterans, but are in Elites. Reivers are Close Support, not Veterans, but are also in Elites. Now we have Incursors in Troops, not Fast Attack, despite being Close Support. Suppressors are in Fast Attack, not Heavy Support, despite being Fire Support. And Eliminators are Heavy Support, not Fast Attack, despite being Close Support.

Really, the only units in Primaris that are in their typical Unit Type and Company are the Intercessors, Infiltrators, Inceptors, and Hellblasters. The rest are a mess.

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 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 Asherian Command wrote:
thats strange, wonder why they put them in the fast attack option? Because they have always have the role they occupy be what they are in the space marine chapter.
That's how it used to be, but things changed as early as the last codex. Aggressors are Fire Support, not Veterans, but are in Elites. Reivers are Close Support, not Veterans, but are also in Elites. Now we have Incursors in Troops, not Fast Attack, despite being Close Support. Suppressors are in Fast Attack, not Heavy Support, despite being Fire Support. And Eliminators are Heavy Support, not Fast Attack, despite being Close Support.

Really, the only units in Primaris that are in their typical Unit Type and Company are the Intercessors, Infiltrators, Inceptors, and Hellblasters. The rest are a mess.

To make it fun, the Reivers, who are in an Elite slot usually saved for -Veterans- tend to be made of Astartes fresh out of Vanguard training.
   
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Reivets definitely should be fast attack.

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Right behind you.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Suppressors wear the fire support badge which puts them in the 9th company not 8th.

They're ostensibly part of the Vanguard, which means 10th Company.

TLDR version:
There's always, on paper, 100 Vanguard Marines as part of the 10th. Neophytes/Scouts don't count towards it anymore.
Vanguard includes:
Suppressors(Fire Support/Fast Attack)
Infiltrators(Battleline/Troops)
Incursors(Close Support/Troops)
Eliminators(Fire Support/Heavy Support)
Reivers(Close Support/Elites)
Invictors(Fire Support/Elites)

but
Any of the other 9 Companies can also field Marines that are effectively acting as Vanguard, it just requires them to choose to do so.
   
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 Kanluwen wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Suppressors wear the fire support badge which puts them in the 9th company not 8th.

They're ostensibly part of the Vanguard, which means 10th Company.

TLDR version:
There's always, on paper, 100 Vanguard Marines as part of the 10th. Neophytes/Scouts don't count towards it anymore.
Vanguard includes:
Suppressors(Fire Support/Fast Attack)
Infiltrators(Battleline/Troops)
Incursors(Close Support/Troops)
Eliminators(Fire Support/Heavy Support)
Reivers(Close Support/Elites)
Invictors(Fire Support/Elites)

but
Any of the other 9 Companies can also field Marines that are effectively acting as Vanguard, it just requires them to choose to do so.

Breaking it downt hat way does seem to make it make more sense. The 10th basically is a sort of battle company of new recruits then with Reivers being the veterans of those recruits.
   
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Hellfury to me sounds like an extension conceptually for Hellblasters. So maybe Primaris Devastator equivalents? Regular Mk X armor with heavy weapons? Would probably pair nicely with the Impulsor.

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 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Hellfury to me sounds like an extension conceptually for Hellblasters. So maybe Primaris Devastator equivalents? Regular Mk X armor with heavy weapons? Would probably pair nicely with the Impulsor.
Hellfury sounds like a fancy title for a Hellblaster Sgt to me

-

   
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Chicago, Illinois

 Galef wrote:
 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Hellfury to me sounds like an extension conceptually for Hellblasters. So maybe Primaris Devastator equivalents? Regular Mk X armor with heavy weapons? Would probably pair nicely with the Impulsor.
Hellfury sounds like a fancy title for a Hellblaster Sgt to me

-


Really sounds like a machine gun to me
   
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Actually...it sounds like when my wife gets upset at me...
   
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Right behind you.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Breaking it downt hat way does seem to make it make more sense. The 10th basically is a sort of battle company of new recruits then with Reivers being the veterans of those recruits.

Yes...and no.

Per p19:
The Chapter's 10th Company is its Scout Company. The majority of its members are neophytes--those whose combat training, physical transformation and cultural initiation is still incomplete--but the company also contains a standing force of ten Vanguard Space Marine squads. These warriors can be called upon to conduct a variety of stealth operations behind enemy lines. The Codex Astartes dictates no formal size for a Scout Company as the rate of recruitment is not fixed, meaning that some Chapters will be able to field comparatively large 10th Company formations while others must husband their limited resources carefully.


The only set thing we have is the ten Vanguard Space Marine Squads...which are mentioned as distinct from the neophytes/recruits. There's a popout on top of p19 that suggests that once the Neophytes/Recruits undergo the Primaris treatments, they then are assigned to the Vanguard Squads to take all the different roles on--but it seems that Reivers might be the start of the path if you go by page 14-15. Gaius Pollandus, after his body had accepted his gene-seed and all of his organs, he joined Reiver Squad Agamnus. From there, he later got assigned to an Infiltrator Squad and advanced to the 9th to join an Eliminator Squad.

Highly suggest reading p14-15 though.

There's also a mention on p18 that talks about the Battle Companies and how squads break up if they're not being broken up by 5s.
...for example, were six battle-brothers to take to the field as Aggressors, the remaining four warriors of their squad might find roles piloting Invictor Warsuits, driving the strike force's Rhino APCs and the like.
   
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 Kanluwen wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:

Breaking it downt hat way does seem to make it make more sense. The 10th basically is a sort of battle company of new recruits then with Reivers being the veterans of those recruits.

Yes...and no.

Per p19:
The Chapter's 10th Company is its Scout Company. The majority of its members are neophytes--those whose combat training, physical transformation and cultural initiation is still incomplete--but the company also contains a standing force of ten Vanguard Space Marine squads. These warriors can be called upon to conduct a variety of stealth operations behind enemy lines. The Codex Astartes dictates no formal size for a Scout Company as the rate of recruitment is not fixed, meaning that some Chapters will be able to field comparatively large 10th Company formations while others must husband their limited resources carefully.


The only set thing we have is the ten Vanguard Space Marine Squads...which are mentioned as distinct from the neophytes/recruits. There's a popout on top of p19 that suggests that once the Neophytes/Recruits undergo the Primaris treatments, they then are assigned to the Vanguard Squads to take all the different roles on--but it seems that Reivers might be the start of the path if you go by page 14-15. Gaius Pollandus, after his body had accepted his gene-seed and all of his organs, he joined Reiver Squad Agamnus. From there, he later got assigned to an Infiltrator Squad and advanced to the 9th to join an Eliminator Squad.

Highly suggest reading p14-15 though.

There's also a mention on p18 that talks about the Battle Companies and how squads break up if they're not being broken up by 5s.
...for example, were six battle-brothers to take to the field as Aggressors, the remaining four warriors of their squad might find roles piloting Invictor Warsuits, driving the strike force's Rhino APCs and the like.

The 10th company is a bit confusing now, but okay.

I've got a bit of a theory regarding Primaris vehicles though, after the blurb about the Executioner being inspired by the Razorback: The Repulsor is the Rhino Equiv, the Executioner is a Razorback equiv, and the Impulsor is actually a Landspeeder Storm equiv.
   
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Hold the phone. Primaris boys in a Rhino? What heresy is this.
   
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Sterling191 wrote:
Hold the phone. Primaris boys in a Rhino? What heresy is this.

Silver Templars (a pure Primaris army) have Land Raiders, so it's likely a thing we'll see on the table eventually.
   
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Right behind you.

Driving, not riding in.

Apparently the seatbelts up front work but not the ones in the back.
   
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 Kanluwen wrote:
Driving, not riding in.

Apparently the seatbelts up front work but not the ones in the back.

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 ClockworkZion wrote:

Silver Templars (a pure Primaris army) have Land Raiders, so it's likely a thing we'll see on the table eventually.


Thats The Joke.gif
   
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 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Driving, not riding in.

Apparently the seatbelts up front work but not the ones in the back.

No wonder no Primaris can fit in the back, that's where the Primaris drivers sit!
   
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Chicago, Illinois

except not in mastodons or land raiders... Ugh primaris rules are so stupid.
   
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 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:

Breaking it downt hat way does seem to make it make more sense. The 10th basically is a sort of battle company of new recruits then with Reivers being the veterans of those recruits.

Yes...and no.

Per p19:
The Chapter's 10th Company is its Scout Company. The majority of its members are neophytes--those whose combat training, physical transformation and cultural initiation is still incomplete--but the company also contains a standing force of ten Vanguard Space Marine squads. These warriors can be called upon to conduct a variety of stealth operations behind enemy lines. The Codex Astartes dictates no formal size for a Scout Company as the rate of recruitment is not fixed, meaning that some Chapters will be able to field comparatively large 10th Company formations while others must husband their limited resources carefully.


The only set thing we have is the ten Vanguard Space Marine Squads...which are mentioned as distinct from the neophytes/recruits. There's a popout on top of p19 that suggests that once the Neophytes/Recruits undergo the Primaris treatments, they then are assigned to the Vanguard Squads to take all the different roles on--but it seems that Reivers might be the start of the path if you go by page 14-15. Gaius Pollandus, after his body had accepted his gene-seed and all of his organs, he joined Reiver Squad Agamnus. From there, he later got assigned to an Infiltrator Squad and advanced to the 9th to join an Eliminator Squad.

Highly suggest reading p14-15 though.

There's also a mention on p18 that talks about the Battle Companies and how squads break up if they're not being broken up by 5s.
...for example, were six battle-brothers to take to the field as Aggressors, the remaining four warriors of their squad might find roles piloting Invictor Warsuits, driving the strike force's Rhino APCs and the like.

The 10th company is a bit confusing now, but okay.

I've got a bit of a theory regarding Primaris vehicles though, after the blurb about the Executioner being inspired by the Razorback: The Repulsor is the Rhino Equiv, the Executioner is a Razorback equiv, and the Impulsor is actually a Landspeeder Storm equiv.
It really makes me wonder why GW hasn't just done away with the previously established Chapter size and composition. In lore Roboute admits the Codex Astartes was flawed and has since made changes. It would make far more sense for Roboute to say "Chapters should be 11 or 12 companies, and here are the 1 or 2 companies of primaris to fill out those ranks" or even if he said "Scouts/Neophytes they don't count towards your 1000"... rather than to try to shoe horn Primaris into random places through out the Chapters. With Guillimans in lore reforms where he introduced the Primaris into the Astartes ranks, it would make sense if he made other changes besides "take these Primaris". There are also practical reasons too... in lore the attrition rate for producing Primaris is suppose to be 10 times higher... you'd need more than just 1 company of scouts or neophytes to maintain a chapter now... in fact you'd need just about as many neophytes to maintain one company of Primaris as you would to maintain the rest of the chapter.

Primaris sound great on paper but if you think about it if a marine chapter is already struggling to maintain their ranks, giving them a more demanding to produce Marine or expecting them to maintain their ranks with them would tax a chapter's resources. With the stated attrition rate, every time you stand up a company of Primaris you could have instead created a whole new chapter. Do chapter's have that kind of surplus resources and man power? What's more worthwhile Primaris or double the number of Chapters?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/20 20:41:56


 
   
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 ClockworkZion wrote:
Sterling191 wrote:
Hold the phone. Primaris boys in a Rhino? What heresy is this.

Silver Templars (a pure Primaris army) have Land Raiders, so it's likely a thing we'll see on the table eventually.


I wouldn't hold your breath...

 
   
 
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