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There was no hostility. I'm just not a fan of putting smileys everywhere for no reason.


It was stated early on, most likely via the Facebook page if it's not showing up in the previews(although the Serberys in the March 30th article did get the statement of "Only the finest Skitarii are promoted into the corps of Serberys cavalry. Once there, some of them join the Raiders, long-range scouts who excel in outflanking enemy units."), that they were winged Sicarian. Jes Goodwin and Darren Latham then further emphasized that recently during their Voxcast.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Neither the word "skitarii" nor the word "sicarian" appears in either the most recent preview, or the one from March 30, unless I've overlooked it. The original reveal video was literally titled "Skitarii take to the skies!" but only showed off the 'copter, so presumably is neither here nor there for answering the question.

To be fair, Sicarians are also Skitarii.

Sure, though presumably what we're all talking about is whether they're a 1W 3S 1A Skitarii profile or a 2W 4S 2+A Sicarian profile, with the cost implications of each.

Assuming they are on the Sicarian profile, that's a lot of points to pay for melee prowess and a second wound on a unit that really seems like you'd rather have be cheaper instead. I think they'd have had a real role in the army at 1W 3S 1A and say 13ish points for the flamer version, but with a Sicarian statline they're likely to be closer to 20ish, at which point the damage output from the guns starts to feel pretty anemic for the points.

I guess we'll know pretty soon, assuming re-opening the factory goes as planned.

Yup. Like I said, unless we get fancy Pteraxii-specific stratagems, we're never going to use them. Infiltrators can already be delivered wherever we need them, and their guns are comparable. (If only they were Rapid Fire...)

yukishiro1 wrote:
Sure, though presumably what we're all talking about is whether they're a 1W 3S 1A Skitarii profile or a 2W 4S 2+A Sicarian profile, with the cost implications of each.

Assuming they are on the Sicarian profile, that's a lot of points to pay for melee prowess and a second wound on a unit that really seems like you'd rather have be cheaper instead. I think they'd have had a real role in the army at 1W 3S 1A and say 13ish points for the flamer version, but with a Sicarian statline they're likely to be closer to 20ish, at which point the damage output from the guns starts to feel pretty anemic for the points.

I guess we'll know pretty soon, assuming re-opening the factory goes as planned.

I can see the Skystalkers coming in at 15-16 points, but the Sterilyzors will almost certainly be 20 minimum with not only a flamer weapon (which GW has historically been overcosting in 8e) but an actually decent flamer weapon.

Madjob wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
Sure, though presumably what we're all talking about is whether they're a 1W 3S 1A Skitarii profile or a 2W 4S 2+A Sicarian profile, with the cost implications of each.

Assuming they are on the Sicarian profile, that's a lot of points to pay for melee prowess and a second wound on a unit that really seems like you'd rather have be cheaper instead. I think they'd have had a real role in the army at 1W 3S 1A and say 13ish points for the flamer version, but with a Sicarian statline they're likely to be closer to 20ish, at which point the damage output from the guns starts to feel pretty anemic for the points.

I guess we'll know pretty soon, assuming re-opening the factory goes as planned.

I can see the Skystalkers coming in at 15-16 points, but the Sterilyzors will almost certainly be 20 minimum with not only a flamer weapon (which GW has historically been overcosting in 8e) but an actually decent flamer weapon.

No chance, infiltrators are 15pts now and Fly and Flamers come with hefty price tags. I'd say 20 for the Skystalkers and more like 25 AT LEAST for a 2w unit with a 12" flamer that can probably also move 12-14", deep strike and has an invuln. Remember when Infiltrators were 24pts each? HA! those were the days lol

Flyer article just posted.
Not much rules-wise, but we can see that the gunship variant has Cognis Lascannons in the rear, Cognis Stubbers on the side doors, and Heavy Phosphor Blasters on the front.
Bomber is implied to have "seismic warheads" on the bombs, so who knows what that will mean.

good grief what is that the 4th article on the planes that basically said nothing? Other than different angles on the pictures that seems like the same crap we already knew.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Flyer article just posted.
Not much rules-wise, but we can see that the gunship variant has Cognis Lascannons in the rear, Cognis Stubbers on the side doors, and Heavy Phosphor Blasters on the front.
Bomber is implied to have "seismic warheads" on the bombs, so who knows what that will mean.

These are quite possibly the most anemic rules previews I've ever seen. I can only guess they're stretching them out to buy time. This one didn't even have a single stat shown, we don't even know transport capacity.

Cognis lascannons and heavy phosphor is nice for the gunship though. Those are solid weapons

This wasn't a rules preview. Remember that these articles were made to be spread across the week of preorders for Engine War--which means that there should be stuff cropping up on Facebook today or tomorrow that supplement these two articles.

It is kind of interesting that again they show off the top bit without naming it though. Looks like we get a flare/chaff launcher of some kind to get a negative to hit modifier or a data-tether of some kind.

 Kanluwen wrote:
This wasn't a rules preview. Remember that these articles were made to be spread across the week of preorders for Engine War--which means that there should be stuff cropping up on Facebook today or tomorrow that supplement these two articles.

It is kind of interesting that again they show off the top bit without naming it though. Looks like we get a flare/chaff launcher of some kind to get a negative to hit modifier or a data-tether of some kind.

I was thinking the same thing, the Corvus Blackstar has a similar bit, one gives you a strafing run the other a negative modifier to hit as you mentioned.

Unsurprising for them to be cognis lascannons but it begs the question "how often will it actually be necessary to advance the thing?" since it is a flyer vehicle and if you advance not only are you taking a total -2 to hit penalty, but you are cutting out the heavy phosphor blasters entirely.

Nothing on there looking like a match for a datatether either, it does seem to have some sort of antennae but nothing like what we've seen for a datatether before.

Cognis overwatch would affect it wouldnt it? There are some pretty mean things with fly that could charge it.

Madjob wrote:
Unsurprising for them to be cognis lascannons but it begs the question "how often will it actually be necessary to advance the thing?" since it is a flyer vehicle and if you advance not only are you taking a total -2 to hit penalty, but you are cutting out the heavy phosphor blasters entirely.

Nothing on there looking like a match for a datatether either, it does seem to have some sort of antennae but nothing like what we've seen for a datatether before.

Well the Scorpius has 2 huge antennas that are only normal EDT for some reason

The one interesting thing in there is the thing about the pilot giving "incredible manoeuvrability," which might just be PR fluff or might actually mean something re: an added turn in flyer mode or something...though I'm not sure how much it'd matter since it must have a hover mode too.

Ignoring movement penalties would be solid

Could just not be Supersonic, and then presumably not be Hard to Hit either.

Octovol wrote:
No chance, infiltrators are 15pts now and Fly and Flamers come with hefty price tags. I'd say 20 for the Skystalkers and more like 25 AT LEAST for a 2w unit with a 12" flamer that can probably also move 12-14", deep strike and has an invuln. Remember when Infiltrators were 24pts each? HA! those were the days lol

Infiltrators are a good point of comparison, since they have +deepstrike and +neurostatic aura over Ruststalkers, which = a 4 point difference (making the assumption that their default wargear are comparable, which I wouldn't in favor of the Infiltrators, meaning even more value packed into that 4 point difference). 15-16 might have been a bit generous even when you trade the powerswords and stubcarbines out for these flechette rifles, but I still can't see them being more than 18 points.

Madjob wrote:

Octovol wrote:
No chance, infiltrators are 15pts now and Fly and Flamers come with hefty price tags. I'd say 20 for the Skystalkers and more like 25 AT LEAST for a 2w unit with a 12" flamer that can probably also move 12-14", deep strike and has an invuln. Remember when Infiltrators were 24pts each? HA! those were the days lol

Infiltrators are a good point of comparison, since they have +deepstrike and +neurostatic aura over Ruststalkers, which = a 4 point difference (making the assumption that their default wargear are comparable, which I wouldn't in favor of the Infiltrators, meaning even more value packed into that 4 point difference). 15-16 might have been a bit generous even when you trade the powerswords and stubcarbines out for these flechette rifles, but I still can't see them being more than 18 points.

I will be very surprised if flamer Pterax was below 20 pts, and I'm actually suspecting 10-12 range for the flamer alone. Cognis Flamer is 7pts, being worse than Sterylizors. Incendine Combustor is 15pts, having only +1S advantage but losing on the cover ignoring part. Flame Pteraxi, with DS and Fly, will easily break 25ppm IMO. I also remember seeing some sort of grenades as well, on the Carbine guy at least, so there's another thing to bump the price.

So it seems like the bomber carries nobody for sure; they say that the passenger compartment is replaced by a gun rack. But aside from that... scant details?

I am curious about defensive flamer Pterax - 12" range so guaranteed overwatch and 5D6 is nothing to sniff at.

The move and drop means you can keep them in reserve until the turn the enemy is close enough to charge, and they can cover your whole battle line.

If you don't charge them, then you'll not be able to overrun the screen, but if you do you get overwatched and they fly off next turn.
I think I'd consider that at 125pts for 5, given that ork boyz/blood letters etc are particularly vulnerable to 5D6 flamers and the ones going to be trying to charge through a screen.

dadamowsky wrote:

Madjob wrote:

Octovol wrote:
No chance, infiltrators are 15pts now and Fly and Flamers come with hefty price tags. I'd say 20 for the Skystalkers and more like 25 AT LEAST for a 2w unit with a 12" flamer that can probably also move 12-14", deep strike and has an invuln. Remember when Infiltrators were 24pts each? HA! those were the days lol

Infiltrators are a good point of comparison, since they have +deepstrike and +neurostatic aura over Ruststalkers, which = a 4 point difference (making the assumption that their default wargear are comparable, which I wouldn't in favor of the Infiltrators, meaning even more value packed into that 4 point difference). 15-16 might have been a bit generous even when you trade the powerswords and stubcarbines out for these flechette rifles, but I still can't see them being more than 18 points.

I will be very surprised if flamer Pterax was below 20 pts, and I'm actually suspecting 10-12 range for the flamer alone. Cognis Flamer is 7pts, being worse than Sterylizors. Incendine Combustor is 15pts, having only +1S advantage but losing on the cover ignoring part. Flame Pteraxi, with DS and Fly, will easily break 25ppm IMO. I also remember seeing some sort of grenades as well, on the Carbine guy at least, so there's another thing to bump the price.

Yup, I would never expect the Sterilyzors to be less than 20, but am making the case for the Skystalkers to land there before any wargear upgrades.

Madjob wrote:
Unsurprising for them to be cognis lascannons but it begs the question "how often will it actually be necessary to advance the thing?" since it is a flyer vehicle and if you advance not only are you taking a total -2 to hit penalty, but you are cutting out the heavy phosphor blasters entirely.

Nothing on there looking like a match for a datatether either, it does seem to have some sort of antennae but nothing like what we've seen for a datatether before.

I'm getting into mechanicus this edition. What does cognis denote? Does it make it an assault weapon?

The Flamer Jump dudes could be a neat addition depending on how expensive they are.

punisher357 wrote:

Madjob wrote:
Unsurprising for them to be cognis lascannons but it begs the question "how often will it actually be necessary to advance the thing?" since it is a flyer vehicle and if you advance not only are you taking a total -2 to hit penalty, but you are cutting out the heavy phosphor blasters entirely.

Nothing on there looking like a match for a datatether either, it does seem to have some sort of antennae but nothing like what we've seen for a datatether before.

I'm getting into mechanicus this edition. What does cognis denote? Does it make it an assault weapon?

Most cognis weapons are Heavy (we have cognis Autocannons, Lascannons, Heavy Stubbers, and Flamers), which in 8e lets you fire the weapon even if the unit advanced, at a -2 to hit penalty. In addition there is a stratagem which allows a unit to fire cognis weapons on overwatch at full BS instead of only hitting on 6s. For the flamers, since they autohit, they instead roll 2D6 and select the higher result when determining their # of shots.

It's a good point about the stratagem allowing for a nasty overwatch surprise if it gets charged, especially if this thing has a hover mode. It would be fantastic if it did indeed have the option for a data-tether, as that opens the option for BS2+ twin lascannon backfield character sniping (before you ask, another stratagem targeting Skitarii units equipped with a Data-tether gives them +2 to hit).

it does not have a rule that allows it to target characters tho, so sniping backfield artillery? Yes. Sniping characters? No.

Actually planes are pretty good at sniping characters, i do it with a Wazbom all the time.

If a character has a footprint next to it big enough to plop a plane and oh look character is closest. Its difficult to deep-strike snipe a character because the 9" limit usually means something is closer that isnt a character, but especially people that are mobile tend to have a spot in the middle of their units thats big enough for a plane.
Its not a surefire thing as if your opponent is aware of it they'll plan for it, but its commonly forgotten.

Or sometimes the rest of your shooting leaves your opponent no choice but to expose them.

 Thairne wrote:
it does not have a rule that allows it to target characters tho, so sniping backfield artillery? Yes. Sniping characters? No.

Usually the plane flies behind their lines, close to a character as possible, and unloads guns at point blank range. One of the unforseen loopholes in the character rules. Most planes have pretty meh weapons, but shooting a character point blank they'll often have enough to do the job. I've done it with vultures packing twin punisher cannons and an avenger with twin lascannon/ML with the avenger cannon. It can be a very nasty trick if you don't prepare for it happening. Just remember that the enemy can do it to you too.

The new gunship plane will probably be pretty good at this if it's decently priced. Bare minimum it can do +1 B's even if it doesn't have the data tether, and between twin lascannons, phosphor blasters, and some stunners/missile things it can probably drop most cheaper characters reliably.

At first I was like "yeah, and that is why you keep your dumb ass casual playing mouth shut in a fething tactics thread were competetive players and big guys talk!"
but then I was like "well.. I didn't have even the slightest idea this was possible, but it makes a LOT of sense".

So... thanks
Especially since I play guard that has an easy time hiding their commanders and stuff behind LOS blocking ruins with a bubble wrap to prevent deep strikes... I'll take 3 of each now, please.